Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
I hate you so much for this. lol
Cardinals Head Coaching Candidates 2023
- Thread starter Solar7
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Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Thank you.
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This is my biggest argument against him. Kyler IS the franchise for the next two years whether any of us like it or not. Getting a defensive coach who already handled one questionable QB situation as bad as possible makes zero sense with the big questions surrounding our own.
And this whole “he’s the anti-Kliff whose teams finish strong instead of starting that way and collapsing”… folks, that ain’t a badge of honor either. It means they played so piss poorly to begin the season that they didn’t make the playoffs and ONLY played well when the pressure was off and the playoff seemed out of reach.
lobo
ASFN Lifer
the last seven words in your comment says it all.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Another way I look at why Ryans or Evero over Flores is looking back to last year.
Would hiring Josh McDaniels over Brian Daboll have been the right move? How about over Mike McDaniel or Kevin O'Connell?
There was no guarantee that any of those inexperienced guys would have been better than McDaniels, but people felt they already knew who McDaniels was as a coach and the possibility of better was preferable to the reality of McDaniels.
Would hiring Josh McDaniels over Brian Daboll have been the right move? How about over Mike McDaniel or Kevin O'Connell?
There was no guarantee that any of those inexperienced guys would have been better than McDaniels, but people felt they already knew who McDaniels was as a coach and the possibility of better was preferable to the reality of McDaniels.
Outerlimits
Veteran
Didn't he cycle through several OC's during that period as well?
I wish they really knew. He’s not even scheduled to come here.
We can SPECULATE and have our opinion of who should be the next head coach.
No matter who you like, that person has chinks in their armor. That person can be torn down and built up based on your view.
I think 99.9 percent of us agree and pray it’s not Vance Joseph.
If Brian Flores is the choice he is going to have to bring in a very good OC and QB coach. Lawsuit. Why was he fired? Will he mesh with Kyler. However , past players seem to love the guy. Has the experience managing a team and a game. Big plus.
Frank Reich has had some success without perfect conditions, but he was fired. He would have to bring in a very good DC. Again he has the experience of managing a team and game. Again , big plus.
Demarco Ryans. Great defense but he took over a pretty good defense from the get go and the organization built on top of that. What he would do with the scraps on this roster? Apparently he’s handled his duties well, but the big question is can he manage a build a team with 4 wins? He would have to bring in a tremendous OC. No experience scares the crap out of me.
Arron Glenn and Ejiro Evero fall into the same category as Ryan. Glenn’s defense came on this year but his resume’ leaves a lot to be worried about. Again, another apprenticeship coach? Evero did a nice job with the Broncos but did you know he past on the opportunity to take over as interim coach when Hackett got fired? Hmmm. Both these guys would need a super OC and QB coaches. Could they attract enough quality coaches?
I left Payton off this list because this team can’t give up one of the major things it needs…draft picks and young talent. He wants 20m a year? Is he going to walk away like he did to the Saints when obviously things were breaking down? As much as I was in love with idea I am completely off this guy.
I guess we will all find out shortly.
No matter who you like, that person has chinks in their armor. That person can be torn down and built up based on your view.
I think 99.9 percent of us agree and pray it’s not Vance Joseph.
If Brian Flores is the choice he is going to have to bring in a very good OC and QB coach. Lawsuit. Why was he fired? Will he mesh with Kyler. However , past players seem to love the guy. Has the experience managing a team and a game. Big plus.
Frank Reich has had some success without perfect conditions, but he was fired. He would have to bring in a very good DC. Again he has the experience of managing a team and game. Again , big plus.
Demarco Ryans. Great defense but he took over a pretty good defense from the get go and the organization built on top of that. What he would do with the scraps on this roster? Apparently he’s handled his duties well, but the big question is can he manage a build a team with 4 wins? He would have to bring in a tremendous OC. No experience scares the crap out of me.
Arron Glenn and Ejiro Evero fall into the same category as Ryan. Glenn’s defense came on this year but his resume’ leaves a lot to be worried about. Again, another apprenticeship coach? Evero did a nice job with the Broncos but did you know he past on the opportunity to take over as interim coach when Hackett got fired? Hmmm. Both these guys would need a super OC and QB coaches. Could they attract enough quality coaches?
I left Payton off this list because this team can’t give up one of the major things it needs…draft picks and young talent. He wants 20m a year? Is he going to walk away like he did to the Saints when obviously things were breaking down? As much as I was in love with idea I am completely off this guy.
I guess we will all find out shortly.
phillycard
ASFN Addict
All this wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth is great for discussion and engagement, but I refuse to get crazy one way or the other. The ONLY candidate that would have me popping bottles would be Payton, and we're not getting him. Other than that I am going to support the next head coach as I did Wilks and Kliff (didn't WANT either) and pray it works out. No matter who it is, he has his work cut out for him, and will need the support of Monti and the front office to succeed. I only need look at Daboll, and Siriani as examples. Neither hire, had we made them would have raised an eyebrow with the fanbase, but they are both coach of the year candidates and look to have prolonged success moving forward. To quote my Sixers center, we will REALLY have to "trust the process"
Outerlimits
Veteran
We are likeiy going to need a new QB then. Kyler never improves as the season progresses.
By excuses you mean context?
He only has a losing record because he was given a roster to tank but still pulled off 5 wins. The roster here is far superior to the 5-11 roster he had.
He only didn't make the playoffs because one of the garbage receivers he had dropped a catch in the EZ and they lost the final game.
How did he mishandle Tua? He had perfectly respectable numbers coming through. His passer rating his first 2 years are very similar to Kyler. Because he would take him out late in games? Tua was still learning and in close games he trusted Fitz more to close out.
Its also massively overblown. In 2021 in the games Tua was healthy he played 96%, 99%, 100%, 100%, 46%, 100%, 100%, 100%, 96%, 94%, 98%, 100%. There's one game he didn't play all but a few snaps.
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How did he not figure out Tua?
His passer ratings through 2 years are nearly identical to Kyler and in 2021 outside of one game where Fitz magic subbed in for half a game he played practically every snap in every game he started.
Most of the Tua thing comes from their interest in Brady and Watson. Which I don't believe had anything to do with Flores.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
I don't know. McDaniels was a known loser from his time with the Broncos. A zebra doesn't change his stripes. The Raiders were dumb AF to hire him.
RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Flores didn't want Tua (I posted article yesterday), yet he still made it work. If he is hired in AZ, he knows full and well that Murray is the QB, so he is choosing to coach him. To me, it's a big difference than what he had with Miami ownership.
Cardinal88
Veteran
Oh, I love her alright. Funniest dog I’ve ever had. She’s a lot of work and maintenance though. I would have placed more joy in my life with Cardinals but not lately.
Cardsfaninlouky
ASFN Lifer
It's the Rooney rule & there's no way Bidwill is forking out 20-25 million/year to Payton. The article I read from The Denver Post link yesterday said that's what his asking price is.
I believe that DeMeco Ryans is/has interviewed with MB today. If so, I'm liking him as a candidate because his hiring would be a loss for the 9ers. Always good when you can ding a division rival. Plus, his smarts and intensity as a player were excellent. Not sure of his coaching however. His D in SF is top notch, but it is a loaded squad. Makes me wonder if he'd struggle with our less-than-stellar personnel.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Exactly this and if you don't understand how that is a problem when developing young players and people in general, I don't know what to say. Trust is very important in any relationship and when your actions demonstrate that you do not trust the other person it doesn't help their confidence or growth.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
@BritCard How come you call people's arguments against your "Kyler is not good" take as making excuses for him but when you make similar arguments for Flores, you call it context?
JeffGollin
ASFN Icon
How about replacing JJ with JJ (in our FO)?
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Did he really make it work? Is that what we are calling it? And is it leadership to let leak that you didn't want the young QB that your team drafted?
TheCardFan
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Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Miami Reporter...Omar Kelly (Twitter thread from Jan 2022)
Here is the FACT about Brian Flores, Chris Grier and Justin Herbert. If Flores wanted Herbert that would have been the pick because Chris Grier would give his head coach to the QB he wanted. This can’t and shouldn’t be debated anymore. So stop spreading fiction.
Brian Flores demoted Fitz, replacing him with Tua because he needed to see who,what Tua was. This is FACT, not fiction. Flores soured on Tua for whatever reason, and didn’t do enough to foster a good relationship with him. FACT, not fiction. We not going to rewrite history.
And it was also the ENTIRE ORGANIZATION, not just Flores, who wanted Watson. That is Ross, Grier, Flores, assistants and PLAYERS who wanted (maybe still wants) Watson over Tua. We not gonna re-write history. Not gonna allow it on my watch.
Here is the FACT about Brian Flores, Chris Grier and Justin Herbert. If Flores wanted Herbert that would have been the pick because Chris Grier would give his head coach to the QB he wanted. This can’t and shouldn’t be debated anymore. So stop spreading fiction.
Brian Flores demoted Fitz, replacing him with Tua because he needed to see who,what Tua was. This is FACT, not fiction. Flores soured on Tua for whatever reason, and didn’t do enough to foster a good relationship with him. FACT, not fiction. We not going to rewrite history.
And it was also the ENTIRE ORGANIZATION, not just Flores, who wanted Watson. That is Ross, Grier, Flores, assistants and PLAYERS who wanted (maybe still wants) Watson over Tua. We not gonna re-write history. Not gonna allow it on my watch.
phillycard
ASFN Addict
I love his enthusiasm. It's infectious, to me even as a fan. And I get that the rah-rah stuff only goes but so far, but KK was such a plain jane as far as game day demeanor, that some juice on the sidelines might be just what the Cardinals need.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
The Dolphins Didn’t Fire Brian Flores Because of His Coaching
Flores overachieved in Miami. But he and owner Stephen Ross reportedly didn’t agree on much—especially on Tua Tagovailoa—and that prompted the team to make the stunning decision to move on from the promising head coach.
www.theringer.com
He lost it because of the relationships he struggled to make and maintain. That message has been delivered, loud and clear. NFL Network’s Steve Wyche said that “coaches don’t often get fired for coaching reasons.” ESPN’s Jeff Darlington said Flores’s “relationship with [Dolphins GM Chris] Grier and Tua [Tagovailoa] had deteriorated to a pretty bad place.” And Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross said “an organization can only function if it’s collaborative and works well together.”
Now, not every player loved Flores—again, Flores’s demeanor is clearly not for everybody. Minkah Fitzpatrick wanted a trade for a reason, believing Flores “had no clue who he was as a player and didn’t care to find out,” as Ty Dunne of Bleacher Report would report.
Flores hired his third (and fourth?) offensive coordinator in three years on the Dolphins job: promoting running backs coach Eric Studesville and tight ends coach George Godsey to co-offensive coordinator roles.
That Tua and the offense didn’t work for the second year in a row is Flores’s fault, in the sense that he is the head coach, and the Sunday product is his responsibility. Flores’s abrasiveness has made it tough for him to attract offensive coaches to work under him. Of his four offensive coordinators over three years, he hired two ex-Patriots positional coaches who had a combined total of one year of previous experience as an offensive coordinator, and two who were already on his staff. The only outside hire he made was luring Chan Gailey out of retirement, which was almost exclusively because Ryan Fitzpatrick was on the team, and which nobody else was trying to do. The head coach is responsible for the team, and Flores’s offenses never worked.
