Week 2 2022: Heroes and Goats

[Chopper0080]

So, for those keeping score this game...Kyler gets the tie and the defense got the win.

 

[DVontel]

the defense would have gotten the blame

*Just* the defense? Are you sure?

 

[Chopper0080]

No one is making excuses. Some of us are seeing the game as a whole and not only focused on the bad that Kyler did.

Kyler could not outscore a Raiders team that his defense held to 23 points. The defense had to score the additional 6 points to win. That is the game as a whole. Our marginally talented defense had to buckle down because the offense led by a 250 mil QB couldn't move the ball and score vs the Raiders in the first half. And then our defense had to score a defensive TD in OT because the offense couldn't get the job done.

 

[Chopper0080]

*Just* the defense? Are you sure?

I can only speak for me

 

[SoonerLou]

Some of you are too much. Would most people consider that open? Yes. Should he have thrown it, arguable. That is a back pylon throw at best with everything on the line. It is a low probability throw.

I can't believe that this much debate was done on a positive play for the Cards when they won the game. Oh wait, yeah I can. It's Kyler.

Kyler posted the highest PFF grade of anyone on offense and was top 7 in QBR on Sunday. Kyler not making the list is hilarious. I say that as someone who thinks Kyler has been the biggest disappointment in the NFL (along with Joe Burrow) so far.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[football karma]

I think Kyler is a sub-par rhythm and timing QB.

this is the truth.

he does it -- just not consistently. in the second half, he hit a 3rd down pass to Ertz, and a slant to Hollywood that were timing throws. Those were two of the longer completions of the game as well.

Its that kind of throw that represents his next step -- especially if defenses are going zone generally and two high specifically against him.

fwiw: I also think defenses on 3rd and 7+ put schemes out there knowing it will result in Kyler throwing a deep sideline pass that is a low completion play. Hitting more over the middle timing plays will obviate that.

 

[Stout]

So we are just going to ignore Kyler's first half performance?

Let me try it your way...

Bottom line is Kyler put his team in a first half hole again and people just want to find ways to not hold him accountable to it.

Yeah, I've been critical of KM a lot, but saying "Kyler" put his team in a first-half hole is whack.

 

[SpokaneCardfan]

All the dropped pass didn't help out the offense. Kyler put the ball where it should have been caught.

 

[Totally_Red]

The thing I noticed about Kyler is that he has become much more risk adverse. That is not all bad. You see the same thing with Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson.
It is a fine line. You don't want a reckless James Winston but he may be erring on the side of caution

 

[Totally_Red]

Yeah, I've been critical of KM a lot, but saying "Kyler" put his team in a first-half hole is whack.

The offense as a whole and Beachum in particular had a horrific first half. They started giving Beachum help in 2nd half.

 

[Shane]

Kyler could not outscore a Raiders team that his defense held to 23 points. The defense had to score the additional 6 points to win. That is the game as a whole. Our marginally talented defense had to buckle down because the offense led by a 250 mil QB couldn't move the ball and score vs the Raiders in the first half. And then our defense had to score a defensive TD in OT because the offense couldn't get the job done.

Hard to argue that

 

[SoonerLou]

Yeah, I've been critical of KM a lot, but saying "Kyler" put his team in a first-half hole is whack.

@Chopper0080 @kerouac9 are judging Kyler on his contract which is fair. Franchise QBs dont struggle vs mid defenses. And that doesnt inspire confidence vs the Rams.

I'd argue Kyler was worse vs the Chiefs in the 1st half than the Raiders. Max Crosby ended 2 of the 3 first half drives himself.

With that said a guy can be one of the heroes and still have concerns that his game has regressed.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I never have and I never will understand how people put so much on one player in football. Sure the QB has the biggest single impact on the game, but he still doesn't singlehandedly win or lose a game for his team. It also seems weird to me that a lot of the same people that will put most of the blame on a QB in a loss will also find ways to take credit away from the QB in a win.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Kyler posted the highest PFF grade of anyone on offense and was top 7 in QBR on Sunday. Kyler not making the list is hilarious. I say that as someone who thinks Kyler has been the biggest disappointment in the NFL (along with Joe Burrow) so far.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Yep QBR is way better. No way that Carr was better than Murray when you factored the whole game. Murray made more 1 on 1 plays that Carr could never make.

 

[kerouac9]

Yep QBR is way better. No way that Carr was better than Murray when you factored the whole game. Murray made more 1 on 1 plays that Carr could never make.

QBR is better than passer rating. To start with it at least tries to account for rushing contributions. It isn’t adjusted for opponent though, and it obviously overweights what happens at the end of a game.

There’s no One True Stat but QBR is in the middle-ish and provides some bizarre results. Kyler Murray is ranked below Cooper Rush and Jacoby Brissett in Total QBR this week.

So… your mileage may vary there.

 

[Krangodnzr]

QBR is better than passer rating. To start with it at least tries to account for rushing contributions. It isn’t adjusted for opponent though, and it obviously overweights what happens at the end of a game.

There’s no One True Stat but QBR is in the middle-ish and provides some bizarre results. Kyler Murray is ranked below Cooper Rush and Jacoby Brissett in Total QBR this week.

So… your mileage may vary there.

Well it certainly IS part subjective, but I think any qualitative stat for sports should be.

I didn't watch Brissett or Rush so I don't have an opinion either way.

 

[kerouac9]

The thing I noticed about Kyler is that he has become much more risk adverse. That is not all bad. You see the same thing with Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson.
It is a fine line. You don't want a reckless James Winston but he may be erring on the side of caution

He’s always been super risk-averse.

 

[reebokalone2001]

I never have and I never will understand how people put so much on one player in football. Sure the QB has the biggest single impact on the game, but he still doesn't singlehandedly win or lose a game for his team. It also seems weird to me that a lot of the same people that will put most of the blame on a QB in a loss will also find ways to take credit away from the QB in a win.

With great power there must also come great responsibility

 

[82CardsGrad]

Kyler could not outscore a Raiders team that his defense held to 23 points. The defense had to score the additional 6 points to win. That is the game as a whole. Our marginally talented defense had to buckle down because the offense led by a 250 mil QB couldn't move the ball and score vs the Raiders in the first half. And then our defense had to score a defensive TD in OT because the offense couldn't get the job done.

Truth... Those who are enamoured with Kyler are simply drawn-in by his ability to resemble a video game QB being moved around on a joystick. Again, incredible physical gifts. But there is literally nothing about Kyler's game that suggests he can be a sustained, productive NFL QB. In fact, for the most part, the only times he is showing success on the field is when plays break-down and anarchy ensues. Rarely is he able to run the offense in ways that have proven to produce consistent production and success. He is virtually never under center which IMO, is a major problem. He rarely is able to drop back 3 steps and deliver balls that produce catches and first downs. Yea... when D-Hop is back I'm sure Kyler will toss up the hail-mary's that Hop is able to pull down fairly consistently... But... I remain completely convinced that Kyler is not built for the NFL and will never enjoy sustained success.
And don't even get me started on Kliff...

 

[Dayman]

Kyler could not outscore a Raiders team that his defense held to 23 points. The defense had to score the additional 6 points to win. That is the game as a whole. Our marginally talented defense had to buckle down because the offense led by a 250 mil QB couldn't move the ball and score vs the Raiders in the first half. And then our defense had to score a defensive TD in OT because the offense couldn't get the job done.

Kyler also laced a 4th down pressure throw to Hollywood in overtime that would have put them in scoring position, which Hollywood dropped . It wasn't the easiest catch, but it is one a "star"receiver you gave up a first round pick for should secure.

I'm not trying to blindly defend Kyler here, but some of these arguments are missing key details that make them seem less than objective.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah… I don’t get hanging hero on Vance and Goat on Kyler when both stunk ass in the first half and then both pulled 180s in the second.

If you don’t want to list Kyler as hero, I can see the argument. But making him a Goat and VJ a hero just seems like hot take look at me material.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Yeah… I don’t get hanging hero on Vance and Goat on Kyler when both stunk ass in the first half and then both pulled 180s in the second.

If you don’t want to list Kyler as hero, I can see the argument. But making him a Goat and VJ a hero just seems like hot take look at me material.

5/5

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah… I don’t get hanging hero on Vance and Goat on Kyler when both stunk ass in the first half and then both pulled 180s in the second.

If you don’t want to list Kyler as hero, I can see the argument. But making him a Goat and VJ a hero just seems like hot take look at me material.

If Kyler doesn’t get bailed out by a holding penalty on the last drive, is this still a great game for him?

If the offense Peter’s out in overtime (a second time, because it already had once) is this a great game for him?

Kyler threw a bomb to Hollywood on 4th and 1 in overtime. If Vegas goes down the field and kicks a field goal, is it still a great game?

 

[urs]

If Kyler doesn’t get bailed out by a holding penalty on the last drive, is this still a great game for him?

If the offense Peter’s out in overtime (a second time, because it already had once) is this a great game for him?

Kyler threw a bomb to Hollywood on 4th and 1 in overtime. If Vegas goes down the field and kicks a field goal, is it still a great game?

Couldn't you ask the same "what ifs" about VJ? You don't though, you only ask them about Kyler.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Couldn't you ask the same "what ifs" about VJ? You don't though, you only ask them about Kyler.

confirmation bias is a helluva drug