Suns Off-season Thread

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah… I wonder if people have forgotten how vulnerable this team was two years ago when we still had Dario but all of us kept lamenting our true lack of size that would be our Achilles heel.

Looks the same to me sans Javale with Dario coming back… and that assumes Dario is 100% as well.

Biz isn’t the player Javale is, Dario is a question mark and we’re still size deficient going into this season. That’s the way I see it.

 

[Chaplin]

Yeah… I wonder if people have forgotten how vulnerable this team was two years ago when we still had Dario but all of us kept lamenting our true lack of size that would be our Achilles heel.

Looks the same to me sans Javale with Dario coming back… and that assumes Dario is 100% as well.

How vulnerable were we? We did make the Finals after all. We had Javale this year and didn't get out of the 2nd round.

 

[Covert Rain]

Because I don't agree with you. Why would I "admit" that?

Recency bias is running rampant here. Dario (and especially his chemistry with Cam Payne) was one of the primary reasons we made it to the Finals against the Bucks. Do you not remember that? He was playing well, we made it to the Finals. He goes down in game 1 and we lose the Finals. Doesn't that tell you something?

Because you are not making sense. You just admitted that maybe they are an offensive wash and that McGee was better defensively. That means McGee is better overall?!?! That's why? Now you want to bring Cam Payne into this? Dude had not played well since MARCH. You are going back two years ago?!!? Also, Dario wouldn't have made much of a difference because we didn't need his offense. He sucks defensively.

 

[Chaplin]

Because you are not making sense. You just admitted that maybe they are an offensive wash and that McGee was better defensively. That means McGee is better overall?!?! That's why? Now you want to bring Dam Payne into this? Dude had not played well since MARCH. You are going back two years ago?!!?

No I didn't say that. Sheesh. I said they were basically a wash with Javale's better defense and Dario's better offense. And it's not just points and rebounds -- Dario can playmake, McGee can't.

I'm stating things from 2 years ago. You are really getting a little upset. So I'll stop engaging you. Have a good day.

 

[Mainstreet]

SGA would be a huge get. Pretty much two 25ppg players in him and Booker

Your new backcourt
51.3ppg, 10rpg, 10.7apg

The backcourt would be dominant. It would open the court for everyone else.

And the Suns would have their future replacement for Chris Paul.

 

[Covert Rain]

No I didn't say that. Sheesh. I said they were basically a wash with Javale's better defense and Dario's better offense. And it's not just points and rebounds -- Dario can playmake, McGee can't.

I'm stating things from 2 years ago. You are really getting a little upset. So I'll stop engaging you. Have a good day.

Chap, look at the stats. That is not true. They are almost a wash offensively BEFORE you even bring defense into it. Come on.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How vulnerable were we? We did make the Finals after all. We had Javale this year and didn't get out of the 2nd round.

That was a run through a much different West than we’re facing now.

That West had no GS, a much younger/worse Memphis team, depleted Denver and Clippers and worse Mavs.

 

[Chaplin]

Again, that was a run through a much different West than we’re facing now.

I disagree -- the West was arguably STRONGER 2 years ago than it was this past season. Yes, the West will be tougher this year, but again, I'm not talking about the Suns vs the rest of the West, I'm talking about the Suns with a healthy Dario vs last season's Suns. We likely agree when talking about the Suns vs the rest of the west in 2022-2023.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah… I wonder if people have forgotten how vulnerable this team was two years ago when we still had Dario but all of us kept lamenting our true lack of size that would be our Achilles heel.

Looks the same to me sans Javale with Dario coming back… and that assumes Dario is 100% as well.

Biz isn’t the player Javale is, Dario is a question mark and we’re still size deficient going into this season. That’s the way I see it.

This. The teams middle was still considered a major hole even with Dario when Ayton went to the bench. People have a short memory. All of the sudden he was going to save us against the Bucks even though he isn't a great defender. Jeebus. Now coming off injury he is going to shore up what McGee gave us? My Lord.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I disagree -- the West was arguably STRONGER 2 years ago than it was this past season. Yes, the West will be tougher this year, but again, I'm not talking about the Suns vs the rest of the West, I'm talking about the Suns with a healthy Dario vs last season's Suns. We likely agree when talking about the Suns vs the rest of the west in 2022-2023.

But you… forget it dude.

I hope you’re right.

 

[Chaplin]

But you… forget it dude.

I hope you’re right.

I hope so too, but I don't want to join normal Suns fandom, which always thinks of the negative. It's tiring and not worth it.

And "forget it dude" sure sounds condescending, but you do you. Pretty sure I didn't deserve such a response.

 

[Covert Rain]

But you… forget it dude.

I hope you’re right.

People also forget the Suns were trying to move Dario since the 2020 season. At one point, the Suns were trying to move him for a 1st round pick because they didn't think he shored up the rotation in the middle. He has been part of speculated trades ever since. That's how much the Suns think of him shoring up the middle. If it wasn't for the injury Dario wouldn't even be here any longer. In essence, him getting injured saved him from getting traded.

 

[95pro]

As-is the Suns team coming back is comparable to the teams we saw the last two years, looking at thing in a vacuum. To the rest of the western conference...we haven't improved. We can only hope that Bridges and CJ can make marked improvements, and Payne can be counted on to provide on a consistent basis.

 

[Hoop Head]

People also forget the Suns were trying to move Dario since the 2020 season. At one point, the Suns were trying to move him for a 1st round pick because they didn't think he shored up the rotation in the middle. He has been part of speculated trades ever since. That's how much the Suns think of him shoring up the middle. If it wasn't for the injury Dario wouldn't even be here any longer. In essence, him getting injured saved him from getting traded.

The Suns front office is very tight lipped. I wouldn't put much, if any, stock in rumors suggesting they were trying to move Dario. Even if they did talk about dealing him, it was likely due to his absence last season and adding a piece that would help last season. Now that he's healthy there has been zero talk of moving him except possibly in a KD trade and that's a no brainer.

 

[Mainstreet]

People also forget the Suns were trying to move Dario since the 2020 season. At one point, the Suns were trying to move him for a 1st round pick because they didn't think he shored up the rotation in the middle. He has been part of speculated trades ever since. That's how much the Suns think of him shoring up the middle. If it wasn't for the injury Dario wouldn't even be here any longer. In essence, him getting injured saved him from getting traded.

My last memory of Super Dario, the Suns were up 1-0 against the Bucks in the Finals.

 

[Covert Rain]

My last memory of Super Dario, the Suns were up 1-0 against the Bucks in the Finals.

That doesn't mean much. The Suns have made it a habit of going up X-0 and still letting teams back in or losing the series. That has nothing to do with the Suns trying to move him since 2020 though. Dario has been consistently mentioned in trades more than any other player. If not for his injury he would be gone.

 

[Phrazbit]

I like McGee but he’s getting laughably over valued in this thread.

Our splits were better when Biz was there n the floor. Our splits with Dario blew both of them out of the water.

McGee is fun, the crowd loves him and made some highlight plays, but his actual impact was not what is being suggested here.

And, as has been brought up a ton, he’s unplayable against anyone who can pull him away from the paint.

 

[Mainstreet]

That doesn't mean much. The Suns have made it a habit of going up X-0 and still letting teams back in or losing the series. That has nothing to do with the Suns trying to move him since 2020 though. Dario has been consistently mentioned in trades more than any other player. If not for his injury he would be gone.

I'm not going to tell Dario I heard this.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not going to tell Dario I heard this.

Pretty sure Dario knows.

 

[Mainstreet]

I hope the Suns are still doing their due dilligence by making calls around the league to check other options.

 

[Proximo]

I periodically hear rumors Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is available in trade. Now that is a player I'd want the Suns to pursue.

They can run a three guard offense... I don't care.

That is interesting, and doesn't make much sense to me. He is still young enough they should be building around him.

He would be a fantastic replacement for CP3 that's for sure.

If we did trade for him, I would try and trade CP3 immediately although that may not even be possible, not many teams would want him with his salary and demands to be on a winning team.

 

[Mainstreet]

That is interesting, and doesn't make much sense to me. He is still young enough they should be building around him.

He would be a fantastic replacement for CP3 that's for sure.

If we did trade for him, I would try and trade CP3 immediately although that may not even be possible, not many teams would want him with his salary and demands to be on a winning team.

The rumor has been floating around for awhile, longer than this offseason. If it were possible to trade for Shai, I'd start three guards and not worry about it.

 

[Covert Rain]

I like McGee but he’s getting laughably over valued in this thread.

Our splits were better when Biz was there n the floor. Our splits with Dario blew both of them out of the water.

McGee is fun, the crowd loves him and made some highlight plays, but his actual impact was not what is being suggested here.

And, as has been brought up a ton, he’s unplayable against anyone who can pull him away from the paint.

Top 20 offensive rating combinations in the playoffs (criteria: Suns used it more than 2 games/Minimum of 4 minutes). Out of the top 20 of those, Biz was only in 4. Ayton and McGee were in the rest. Top 20 defensive rating combination in the playoffs (same criteria). Biz was also in only 3 of the top 20. Ayton and McGee were in the rest. In overall NetRTG (same criteria): Biz was in 4 of the top 20 of those. I could look at the regular season as well but my guess is it's going to be much of the same. The criteria would be much different as well because there are a ton more games. Probably would want that combo to be used at least in 20 games.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And yet we STILL won 64 games a mere 2 months ago. Don't be so quick to make us out to be worse than we are.

Now your confusing conversation. You were talking about the 20-21 squad. Now you’re talking about the 21-22 squad. And yeah we won 64 games. But the wheels fell off. And we don’t know why they fell off, but they clearly did. We don’t know if that’s been remedied, or even if it’s “remediable.”

Also, I’m not saying we aren’t a contender, we are. I said we aren’t a “leading contender,” and I think that’s fair to say about a team that finished the playoffs in the fifth or sixth position.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Running it back isn't ideal but IMO it's far better than the alternative. Our difficulty is that we went into the CP era with few tradable assets and it's catching up with us now. We have stockpiled no pieces of real value to give up in order to bring in a true upgrade of our weak spots - all we really have is our future picks. But had we not missed so horribly on Bender, Jackson, Chriss, Ennis and Len or contributed to zeroing out the value of TJ and Jalen, we wouldn't be facing this challenge.

Not true. Bridges and cam Johnson clearly have trade value in addition to all future picks.