The Durant Sweepstakes

[Hoop Head]

KD has been all-world, I don't know about "is". I only saw him once during the season that I recall (against us) and he seemed like the same old Durant. But the playoff games were a real concern. He was shut down by single coverage, turned the ball over often, shot a horrible percentage and his defense wasn't what I remembered.

Everyone seems willing to just ignore those 4 games but I'm concerned nonetheless. I'd much rather let the season get underway so we can see if that was just a fluke or the result of his injury and his age taking it's toll.

194 million for 4 years is an incredibly dangerous contract for a 34 year old, and IMO is far too big of a gamble for a team like the Suns even without considering that it would likely cost us Bridges, CamJ and 4 draft picks. If he's back to playing defense and able to move well enough to get good looks when he wants, then maybe it's worth the gamble.

Durant quit vs Boston and had virtually no help. I'm not sure how you can fault him for that while also wanting it to run it back with an entire roster that quit vs Dallas.

Why hold a series against a player when you won't a series against a team? Brooklyn wasn't expected to make it past Boston but the Suns were expected to at least make the Conference Finals and fight with the Warriors.

 

[Covert Rain]

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. And I’m a little too tipsy to explain it properly.

I’m just saying impact wise fretting over losing an Oubre v. What we got in CP3 will be much like Bridges v. KD. KD makes us pretty much invinceanle… if healthy, probably one of the best teams of all time.

Yeah… I said it. CP3/Booker/KD/Ayton steamrolls everyone in the league.

If it’s any consolation I am high as a kite on pain meds. I had surgery yesterday.

 

[Mainstreet]

Availability is not the issue. Price is. No team is going to gut their team to trade for him if they are contending. So, the Nets would have to come way down on the asking price for him because Kevin is going to have a very short list, he is willing to play for. So, it’s not going to benefit the Nets to wait. They are not going to get more later. Now if KD wanted to play with a team not contending that could move a bunch of assets that would be different.

A contender is not going to gut their team for Durant if they can no longer contend. The idea seems contradictory.

It is conceivable the Nets could get more later because players signed during the summer are now eligible to be traded approaching the trade deadline.

Also at the trade deadline potential contenders may become more desperate and up their offer for Durant.

I'm not saying the Nets will wait to trade Durant but it's not out of the realm of possibility the Nets could get more for him later.

 

[Covert Rain]

A contender is not going to gut their team for Durant if they can no longer contend. The idea seems contradictory.

It is conceivable the Nets could get more later because players signed during the summer are now eligible to be traded approaching the trade deadline.

Also at the trade deadline potential contenders may become more desperate and up their offer for Durant.

I'm not saying the Nets will wait to trade Durant but it's not out of the realm of possibility the Nets could get more for him later.

Huh? No. A contender is not going to trade pieces to take them out of contention just to get Durant. That would happen because of the high price the Nets are asking. So, in other words, the Nets are stupid if they think they can get more at the trade deadline. Durant is not going to a non-contending team.

Most contending teams at the trade deadline are trading for a single piece to get them over the top. That doesn’t mean they will gut what they have to get said player. A trade with one of those teams likely only happens if the Nets come down from their asking price.

 

[Mainstreet]

Huh? No. A contender is not going to trade pieces to take them out of contention just to get Durant. That would happen because of the high price the Nets are asking. So, in other words, the Nets are stupid if they think they can get more at the trade deadline. Durant is not going to a non-contending team.

Most contending teams at the trade deadline are trading for a single piece to get them over the top. That doesn’t mean they will gut what they have to get said player. A trade with one of those teams likely only happens if the Nets come down from their asking price.

May I suggest you reread my last post.

 

[1tinsoldier]

the beauty of Bridges is that he doesn't have to be consistent on offense. He's usually our 4th option but he's not someone opponents can leave open either. He's a defensive anchor who can, most of the time, defend their top scorer, regardless of position

there are dozens of offensive stars in the league. Every team has a couple. How many Bridges are there? Who's guarding their stars when he's gone?

you can't depend on offense every night, we know that for sure
but solid defense can be depended on. And you can't teach arm length

Booker is our young offensive anchor.
Bridges is our young defensive anchor.
he stays. for another decade.
i think Jones agrees.
case closed

or

you can keep talking about trading him for Durant plus picks for the next 6 months

 

[AzStevenCal]

Durant quit vs Boston and had virtually no help. I'm not sure how you can fault him for that while also wanting it to run it back with an entire roster that quit vs Dallas.

Why hold a series against a player when you won't a series against a team? Brooklyn wasn't expected to make it past Boston but the Suns were expected to at least make the Conference Finals and fight with the Warriors.

Okay, so, when did he quit? In game one? Where he shot 9 for 24, turned the ball over 6 times and was tied for a team worst -13 in a game they only lost by 1 point? Or was it game 2 when he shot 4 for 17, turned the ball over 6 times and was a team worst -10 in a 7 point loss? In game 4 he shot 13 for 31 but watching him play, I'd say his final 2 games were his least bad games. So it looks to me that, if he quit, it must have been before the series started and that he "un-quit" for the series close out.

And I don't "hold the series against him", I'm just concerned about it. We're talking about a player who has only played 90 games over the past three seasons. I understand that it might have just been a fluke and that Durant could well return to form when he's out of that mess. But when it comes to excusing a player or team for quitting there's a huge difference between doing it by running it back after the Dallas debacle versus gambling 194 Million, all available picks, Bridges and Cam Johnson.

 

[Covert Rain]

May I suggest you reread my last post.

My thought isn’t in the slightest contradictory as you suggested. So, I disagree with your last post. No need to re-read it. My last post was just meant to clarify if there was any confusion.

 

[Mainstreet]

My thought isn’t in the slightest contradictory as you suggested. So, I disagree with your last post. No need to re-read it.

I said the idea seem contradictory. I wrote:

"A contender is not going to gut their team for Durant if they can no longer contend. The idea seems contradictory."

If you don't want to re-read it so be it.

 

[Covert Rain]

I said the idea seem contradictory. I wrote:

"A contender is not going to gut their team for Durant if they can no longer contend. The idea seems contradictory."

If you don't want to re-read it so be it.

I know what you said but maybe you are the one that needs to re-read. I said

“No team is going to gut their team to trade for him if they are contending.”

There clearly is a difference between what I said and what you said above.

 

[Mainstreet]

I know what you said but maybe you are the one that needs to re-read. I said

“No team is going to gut their team to trade for him if they are contending.”

There clearly is a difference between what I said and what you said above.

Actually I think there is very little difference in what we both said but carry on.

 

[Covert Rain]

Actually I think there is very little difference in what we both said but carry on.

Sure because clearly “contending” and “no longer” are the same. What was I thinking?

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah… this feels like people getting bent out of shape because we had to trade Oubre to get CP3. That is the equivalent of Bridges to KD in terms of talent and comparison as far as impact on the team.

If bridges + Dario/Crowder/Filler + picks (we don’t value anyway) gets that deal done pre-season, the Suns would be absolute freaking morons not to take it.

If Durant were being bid on by the entire league... I'd agree, that is a reasonable offer, but that is not the case.

We're bidding against ourselves. Paying a king's ransom for a disgruntled player who has by many accounts made it clear that the only team he WANTS to play for is the Suns... that's just crazy.

Wait them out.

 

[Germz249]

I think the most first round picks the Suns can offer is four.

Cam Johnson, cap filler and four first round picks might not be enough to get it done for Durant.

I would like to see what the Suns could get for expiring contracts and a first round pick or two if getting Durant is not possible.

Who can we target?

 

[Hoop Head]

Okay, so, when did he quit? In game one? Where he shot 9 for 24, turned the ball over 6 times and was tied for a team worst -13 in a game they only lost by 1 point? Or was it game 2 when he shot 4 for 17, turned the ball over 6 times and was a team worst -10 in a 7 point loss? In game 4 he shot 13 for 31 but watching him play, I'd say his final 2 games were his least bad games. So it looks to me that, if he quit, it must have been before the series started and that he "un-quit" for the series close out

I'd say he didn't bother much throughout the series. He was going through the motions. He's good enough that going through the motions can still provide decent stats. He didn't quit like the Suns did as far as laying down and dying but he wasn't going to kill himself when the outcome was essentially decided from the start.

Yes, he's played 90 games over the last 3 years. 1 1/2 of that time was for an injury he suffered in the NBA Finals in June so of course he was going to miss a full season for recovery, possibly more. He's come back from that Achilles injury and showed that he can still play at a high level. He was 2nd team All-NBA last season, which I believe is who we'll see rather than the guy who didn't play great against the Eastern Conference Champs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don’t equate Oubre to Bridges at all. Oubre can’t anchor either side of the ball on a good team. I know you are not as high as others on Bridges but he was a defensive anchor all season. Having said that? You can’t let Bridges get in the way of a trade for KD. Especially, now that we have Ayton back. If JJ could pull it off without getting Bridges that would be epic. It can’t be the reason you don’t pull the trigger though.

He’s not equating them. He is saying bridges is to Durant like oubre is to Paul. The bridges-Durant deal is a higher talent version (on both sides) of oubre-Paul.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Durant quit vs Boston and had virtually no help. I'm not sure how you can fault him for that while also wanting it to run it back with an entire roster that quit vs Dallas.

Why hold a series against a player when you won't a series against a team? Brooklyn wasn't expected to make it past Boston but the Suns were expected to at least make the Conference Finals and fight with the Warriors.

That’s a good point. If you looked Paul verses Dallas the same as Steve is looking at kd verses Boston you’d say no way you want that guy. It’s a bit too narrow of thinking.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That’s a good point. If you looked Paul verses Dallas the same as Steve is looking at kd verses Boston you’d say no way you want that guy. It’s a bit too narrow of thinking.

Is it? I've already said if I were a Nets fan and they were bringing him back I'd be some place between hopeful and confident that it was just a one-off and that the player we'd see would be the Durant of old. And I have no idea what the hell happened to our team, and no level of confidence that we can run it back and all will be great, I just think it's safer to keep a 64 win team intact than it is to give up on it because of one bewildering postseason.

And we aren't talking about simply running it back with Durant, we are talking about committing 194 Million over the next 4 years for one player and giving up 4 draft picks and two decent to good young players plus a few other role players. It's too huge of a gamble for an organization led by Sarver IMO. With his pocketbook it could easily ruin us for many years. We aren't Boston or LA or Chicago or Miami that can swallow that kind of risk and quickly move back into relevancy if the trade fails.

And again, to be clear, I'm not saying Durant is finished. I'm concerned (not convinced of anything, just concerned) about what his poor playoff performance means for this year and the three that follow. I'm concerned that his frame won't hold up over a full season and having undergone an achilles repair that each subsequent season will take an even greater toll on him than it would a typical late career superstar.

 

[Mainstreet]

Who can we target?

There are not a lot of good options remaining in free agency. The Suns already have 14 players on their roster.

I like Eric Pashall at power forward but the Suns might decide to keep the roster spot open for trades or buyouts later on.

They do have the MLE.

If the Suns traded for Durant they would likely need more players.

I'd like for the Suns to look at adding a couple of two-way contracts for added depth.

 

[1tinsoldier]

again, AZsteven is on the money.

there is no one who appreciates Chris Paul on this site more than me, but i wasn't for the Paul trade at first because of health risks 2 years ago. we got lucky. and we didn't give up much to get him.

i was also worried about extending him a year ago. we got lucky, until the 2nd round of the playoffs

and even though he's been #1 in assists and steals and an MVP candidate during that time on a historic Suns team, i sure as hell wouldn't sacrifice assets to acquire him now. And i certainly would not sacrifice key assets AND key future assets to pair him with someone who's been far less healthier and part of a historically dysfunctional franchise over the past 3 years!

 

[Yuma]

Listening to sports radio all week, I came away with this impression of how things are going:

1) The Nets have no sense of urgency unless KD gets vocal about when and where he wants to go. With KD silent on all fronts, the Nets don't have to do anything. IF KD goes public and gets aggressive, then it forces the Nets hands. IF KD comes out and just forcefully says I want to go to PHX and I am not playing for the Nets this season, it will get him to PHX sooner than later. Of course whatever team he picks to go to, the same strategy applies.

2) There's thinking in NBA circles the pool of players that can be included in a trade right now is small compared to after January when a lot more guys become available.

My thinking is this, the Ayton resigning does not ruin a potential trade. If anything, I am thinking any team Durant goes to will be gutted to get Durant. Most teams will only have 1-2 stars to play with Durant. We would have 3 guys he would be joining assuming we get Durant before the season starts, since DA can't be traded until later. If I was Durant, I would be thinking that gives me a better starting five to play with, no matter who the fifth guy ends up being.

The other thing I heard, is a fan that called in and said he did not want the Durant trade to go through. His logic is, we would not own a draft pick outright for 8 years with trading the picks and pick swaps, also our young guys like Bridges and Johnson would be gone. So when KD's contact expires, assuming he has not asked to be traded from PHX, we have no tools to rebuild. His thinking is it's better to run it back with who we have and keep our options open.

I have been thinking, what if we could get Donavan Mitchell cheaper. It's not KD, who is one of my favorite players to watch ever, but he gives us that other scoring option, although at a much smaller size. I think we would obviously be a superior team with KD, but the cost almost seems too high. My only hope is KD puts his foot down and demands to be traded to PHX. That's the only way I see this happening at somewhat a reasonable deal.

 

[TJ]

If we win a title, i would not give a flying **** if we averaged 10 wins a season for the next decade

 

[Hoop Head]

I have been thinking, what if we could get Donavan Mitchell cheaper. It's not KD, who is one of my favorite players to watch ever, but he gives us that other scoring option, although at a much smaller size. I think we would obviously be a superior team with KD, but the cost almost seems too high. My only hope is KD puts his foot down and demands to be traded to PHX. That's the only way I see this happening at somewhat a reasonable deal

Mitchell will cost close to what KD would. A bunch of picks and salary filler. That would be for a player who is redundant with Booker and Paul here already. Mitchell isn't the scorer Book is or the playmaker Paul is. He pushes Booker to SF though, which isn't a huge change offensively but it would require Booker guard bigger players on D, which would wear him down more.

I would guess you're looking at Mitchell as a Paul replacement in time but I can't see him coexisting with Booker. Mitchell is too much of a chucker. I wouldn't want him as our PG.

Before Paul retires though we'd be really small with Paul, Mitchell, and Booker on the floor together and make no mistake, none of those guys would accept a bench role.

Utah isn't losing Mitchell for close to what to they got for Gobert, which was essentially 4 picks. It looks like New York is going to give them a package close to that also as they have the extra picks to part with, more valuable picks than the Suns have, and could use him to upgrade their backcourt. The only way the Suns trump their offer is by including Cam or Mikal and at that point, why not go for KD?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Is it? I've already said if I were a Nets fan and they were bringing him back I'd be some place between hopeful and confident that it was just a one-off and that the player we'd see would be the Durant of old. And I have no idea what the hell happened to our team, and no level of confidence that we can run it back and all will be great, I just think it's safer to keep a 64 win team intact than it is to give up on it because of one bewildering postseason.

And we aren't talking about simply running it back with Durant, we are talking about committing 194 Million over the next 4 years for one player and giving up 4 draft picks and two decent to good young players plus a few other role players. It's too huge of a gamble for an organization led by Sarver IMO. With his pocketbook it could easily ruin us for many years. We aren't Boston or LA or Chicago or Miami that can swallow that kind of risk and quickly move back into relevancy if the trade fails.

And again, to be clear, I'm not saying Durant is finished. I'm concerned (not convinced of anything, just concerned) about what his poor playoff performance means for this year and the three that follow. I'm concerned that his frame won't hold up over a full season and having undergone an achilles repair that each subsequent season will take an even greater toll on him than it would a typical late career superstar.

Yes

 

[itlnsunsfan]

If we win a title, i would not give a flying **** if we averaged 10 wins a season for the next decade

If we didn't win a title, would you give a flying **** then?