Would you pay Kyler 45 mil if this is (basically) his peak?

Are you paying Kyler Murray 45 mil for the production listed below?


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Chopper0080

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What I don't care about: How much money the team agrees to pay Kyler or any other player.

What I do care about: Contract is structured to allow the team to still have the flexibility to sign other players.
With a QB being paid the type of money he is asking for, there isn't too much flexibility to the structure. That is why I would extend him three years, guarantee it all, and move forward. Puts him under contract for 5 years instead of 2, the duration of the Keim/Kliff tenure so they are on the same time frame, and gives you some future outs if you need them.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Except no player has ever done this so you are creating a silly scenario.
No player has sat out bc they didn't get their rookie extension?


Could be posturing, but the message has been consistent.
Again, it's like me arguing that he goes and plays baseball. It is a silly argument.
Lol, who said anything about baseball?
Also, let's not forget that this "negotiation" is all based upon Kyler demanding this happens now.
Yeah - each negotiation is different.
The organization didn't front this and it is rare that QBs are extended prior to the off-season before their contract year.
Do you think Kyler or his agent care?
So again, if this is as good as he gets, are you paying him 45 mil?
Yes - I don't trust our front office to effectively evaluate the position, and top young QB's don't come here! We'd be stuck with some retread or journeyman (BIM), and hope.

Considering he's 24, I don't think there is much of a debate.
 
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Chopper0080

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No player has sat out bc they didn't get their rookie extension?


Could be posturing, but the message has been consistent.

Lol, who said anything about baseball?

Yeah - each negotiation is different.

Do you think Kyler or his agent care?

Yes - I don't trust our front office to effectively evaluate the position, and top young QB's don't come here! We'd be stuck with some retread or journeyman (BIM), and hope.

Considering he's 24, I don't think there is much of a debate.
All negotiations are is posturing. Kyler isn't going to sit out a year, have his contract toll one year, and cost himself millions. It doesn't help him in any way. His agent knows the team has control for four seasons if they want to exercise that option. His agent knows there isn't a huge market for him because he is a non-traditional QB. His agent knows he already has a rep around the league and him holding out isn't going to help that. This entire thing has been a sham because Kyler's agent knows that their is more risk to his client playing this season under his current contract than there is benefit.

And the entire original point is that the worst case scenario in not giving Kyler a contract is that he is amazing and you have to pay him the top contract in the league. And no player has ever turned that down.
 

Krangodnzr

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A lot of conversation surrounding extending Kyler is assuming he continues to get better. A realistic counter to this is if you can't predict his improvement, you are extending him based upon who he is. Is who he is now, good enough for that contract?

Let's say 4000 yards passing. 26 TDs. 13 INTs. 69% completion %. 450 yards rushing. 5 TDs rushing.

His personality and leadership style are what they currently are.

Are you paying that contract?
I would because he is a top ten QB right now by alot of measures and $45 million per will soon be considered reasonable money.
 

BritCard

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Yes.

There were two Kyler's last year. There was 1-8 Kyler, I would absolutely pay him the market rate (and $46m is the market rate). And there was 12-17 Kyler who I would not.

But you have to hope that 1-8 Kyler will be more dominant.

I know $46m seems like a lot of wedge but it will likely be weighted towards the back end. The cap is set to jump $20m a year for at least the next 5 years so $46m is going to look average by year 3.
 

gmabel830

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For those who may think I am biased and don't want to check my vote, I voted that I would pay him. I am a bit hesitant about it but I probably pull the trigger even if I would only give him a three year extension.
At the end of that three year extension, we will look forward to you "Would you pay Kyler 75 mil" thread.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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Again, your argument being based upon something there is not an actual example of happening is not a good argument. It would be like me arguing not to sign him because he may never play a full season again.

So I ask again, if this is as good as he gets, would you pay him what he wants?
As is I would probably pay him. He is already pretty darn good.

As to comparing him to others after signing their first big contract, I would argue that Kyler is younger and less experienced than many of them were prior to their big contracts. Therefor I would like his chances of improving after signing than I would for those other QBs.
 

Stout

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A lot of conversation surrounding extending Kyler is assuming he continues to get better. A realistic counter to this is if you can't predict his improvement, you are extending him based upon who he is. Is who he is now, good enough for that contract?

Let's say 4000 yards passing. 26 TDs. 13 INTs. 69% completion %. 450 yards rushing. 5 TDs rushing.

His personality and leadership style are what they currently are.

Are you paying that contract?
Considering that he hasn't hit those numbers yet, and considering he is nowhere near good enough to consistently win playoff games, let alone SBs? Hell no. If he can improve, turn his head on the right way? Sure. Ah, but we can't know which way it'll go, can we?
 

Stout

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No, the worst case scenario is if he goes superstar, and because we jacked him around so much, he decides to take his talent elsewhere.

Messing around with young potential superstar talent carries a lot of risk!
I wasn't aware he can just take his ball and go home. Didn't know you could break contracts now lol
 

Stout

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Didn't Carson Palmer threaten the same, and get traded?
Trading requires the team's consent. KM can't just decide to leave and have his wishes granted. Now, you don't want to upset the apple cart with your star players, but if he doesn't improve, he'll never lead us anywhere. Who here wants Kirk Cousins as their QB? *crickets* Neither do I. If he doesn't improve, that's his ceiling.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Trading requires the team's consent.
Uh, yeah. Carson Palmer told the Bengals he was going to take his ball and go home unless he was traded. Carson Palmer was traded. Do you think there wasn't a relationship between the two things?
 

Russ Smith

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This shouldn't even be a conversation. You have to pay him at this point. If you weren't going to pay him, he should have already been traded.


Been saying exactly that for months now. If we weren't sure we should have traded him before the draft. We have to pay him.

My concern now is paying big money for a guy who may have a terrible OL in front of him with D Hop out for 6 games.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Been saying exactly that for months now. If we weren't sure we should have traded him before the draft. We have to pay him.

My concern now is paying big money for a guy who may have a terrible OL in front of him with D Hop out for 6 games.
True, but it wouldn't be better to not pay him because of that. Especially since the D-Hop issue isn't Kyler's fault.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Uh, yeah. Carson Palmer told the Bengals he was going to take his ball and go home unless he was traded. Carson Palmer was traded. Do you think there wasn't a relationship between the two things?
Carson Palmer also wasn't on his 1st contract extension...he had made some coin and made it known he was content retiring. I think he had made almost $90 million at that point....maybe more????? The Bengals really had no other choice, if they wanted anything in return.
 

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Carson Palmer also wasn't on his 1st contract extension...he had made some coin and made it known he was content retiring. I think he had made almost $90 million at that point....maybe more????? The Bengals really had no other choice, if they wanted anything in return.
What Ron said. The situations are in no way comparable. He could've just retired if they didn't trade him.
 

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I struggle with this idea. Why do you HAVE to pay him?

He is under contract for next year and you have the franchise tag for two years after. It is not unreasonable to say that you need to see more after the end of last season. The coaching and front office will be the same.

Worst case scenario in not giving him a contract extension is that he becomes one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL and you make him the highest paid QB in the NFL. That is the worst case scenario.

That is why I am curious if where he is at currently is worth the contract he is asking for. Because if you pay Kyler 45 mil per year and he never becomes better than this, that is what you are stuck with. Is it worth it?
I agree. He is still under rookie contract for two more years and then some with the franchise tag. How is this any different than what is going on in Baltimore with Lamar Jackson. And even Jackson has more of a leg to stand on since he actually won an NFL MVP in his first couple years. Kyler is a good QB but has done nothing to demand a contract worthy of the top guys in the league.
 
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Chopper0080

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Considering that he hasn't hit those numbers yet, and considering he is nowhere near good enough to consistently win playoff games, let alone SBs? Hell no. If he can improve, turn his head on the right way? Sure. Ah, but we can't know which way it'll go, can we?
Absolutely. And that is the point of the poll. Try to get away from the "you have to sign him" and the "he will develop" or the "he needs to mature" and just see who would sign him now at his demands with who and what he is as a current player because looking into it, I can't find guys who got paid and suddenly got significantly better.
 

kerouac9

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I agree. He is still under rookie contract for two more years and then some with the franchise tag. How is this any different than what is going on in Baltimore with Lamar Jackson. And even Jackson has more of a leg to stand on since he actually won an NFL MVP in his first couple years. Kyler is a good QB but has done nothing to demand a contract worthy of the top guys in the league.

Baltimore is begging to extend Lamar; he just represents himself and isn't in any hurry to get it done (wildly, IMO).
 
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I think this is false. I can't find an example of a current QB who has consistently produced significantly better stats than he did prior to his large extension.

Rodgers...no.
Mahomes...no.
Allen...no.
Carr...no.
Watson...no.
Wilson...no.
Ryan...no.
Wentz...no.
Dak...no.
Stafford...no.

Matt Ryan is probably the only one who is close. 4700 and 32 was his best season prior to his extension and he has a 4900 and 38 season as well as a 4900 and 35 season but that is a marginal difference IMO.
I voted yes.

Did any of the QB's listed mature more after 3 years? Become better leaders? Read defenses better?
 

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