The Ayton Plan

Covert Rain

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Well that’s what shooting percentage is for. He shot 63% on the year. So that means he misses 4 shots a game.

So how many shots is he allowed to miss? Because 63% is very very efficient. Is he allowed to miss 3? So 70% or maybe 3? 80%

No this is where I sit back and let you find me all the players in NBA history with the usage rate he has that have shot 70 or 80%
You are not listening or comprehending. AGAIN, nobody is saying that Ayton doesn't have talent. Nobody is saying that Ayton has terrible numbers. What people have been saying is he could be so much better. He is mentally aloof during games. He loses focus. At times he lacks aggression. His own team and Monty have brought this up numerous times since he got into the league.

Unless you are going to argue they don't know him better than you....I can't help you.
 

Finito

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You are not listening or comprehending. AGAIN, nobody is saying that Ayton doesn't have talent. Nobody is saying that Ayton has terrible numbers. What people have been saying is he could be so much better. He is mentally aloof during games. He loses focus. At times he lacks aggression. His own team and Monty have brought this up numerous times since he got into the league.

Unless you are going to argue they don't know him better than you....I can't help you.

No no no

You said he leave points on the board. So please tell me where all these baskets he’s missing. Like I said what is acceptable to you. How many shots is he allowed to miss 2? 3? I’m just curious this is your argument not mine.
 

TRW

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Ayton has JBC (Joe Barry Carroll) Disease. Just Barely Cares for those old timers that remember him. Now, I think Ayton is a better player that JBC (don't read what I didn't say), but he has a similar laisse faire attitude at times. At least that's what it looks like. Either that or he catches up on his sleep during games. :shrug:
 

Covert Rain

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No no no

You said he leave points on the board. So please tell me where all these baskets he’s missing. Like I said what is acceptable to you. How many shots is he allowed to miss 2? 3? I’m just curious this is your argument not mine.
No, no, no. My initial comment was that Ayton was soft and can't perform at peak performance if he isn't getting sleep. YOU brought up leaving points on the board. Since you did bring it up, leaving points on the board isn't just about the shots you take. It's also about the ones you didn't take (pass up). Having said that, I am talking about his lack of focus leads him to being out of position, disappearing for parts of game, not being aggressive and dunking the damn ball.

I ask again, if that is just a fantasy why has his own team brought it up? Why has guys like Paul had to be in his ear to stay focused over and over? Why has Monty brought it up?
 

Finito

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No, no, no. My initial comment was that Ayton was soft and can't perform at peak performance if he isn't getting sleep. YOU brought up leaving points on the board. Since you did bring it up, leaving points on the board isn't just about the shots you take. It's also about the ones you didn't take (pass up). Having said that, I am talking about his lack of focus leads him to being out of position, disappearing for parts of game, not being aggressive and dunking the damn ball.

I ask again, if that is just a fantasy why has his own team brought it up? Why has guys like Paul had to be in his ear to stay focused over and over? Why has Monty brought it up?

Oh that was me being sarcastic and making fun of you. Sorry you didn’t pick up on it.

My bad
 

Covert Rain

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Oh that was me being sarcastic and making fun of you. Sorry you didn’t pick up on it.

My bad
It was pretty bad. You need to work on your delivery and strawman techniques.
 

Krangodnzr

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I'm definitely on Team Ayton, unless you can replace him with something better.

There just aren't many other young bigs that can do what he does, and his floor is really high. Even if he's just good moving forward, we could still trade him if we need.

We have a ton of problems, and replacing Ayton would create another huge hole.
Same. I say the Suns need to force him to be more of the focal point. I don't watch a ton of Suns games like a lot of you here, but I see MANY examples of games where if the Suns just kept getting the ball to Ayton, they would be a lot more effective.
 

Raindog

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Here’s the bottom line:

As much as it pains the fans to admit, the Suns need Ayton more than Ayton needs the Suns. If Jones decides to move from him, it leaves a void in the middle defensively and gravity towards the middle of the basket that’s not easily replaced. You’ll lose spacing for Booker and other outside shooters paramount to what Monty’s perimeter-oriented team needs. Centers not named Jokic or Embiid wont command that much attention underneath. Holmes, Siakim and other names casually being thrown around wont get the attention that Ayton gets.

For Ayton, he could get the max from Phoenix, but if he wants to be super max eligible, he has to go elsewhere. He’s not going to be the focal point of this offense like other athletic centers in the NBA as long as Monty is coach. This is not a knock on Monty, it’s just the fact. Ayton would be utilized more frequently with Orlando, Portland, Detroit, etc. This would come with not playing for a contender, but I know Ayton loves his money.

For Ayton detractors, this is a “be careful what you wish for” situation. Ayton, for all of his warts, has been much more than a net positive for this team during his time here and the names being tossed around simply wont do Make it for it. Remember - we dont win the conference last season w/o him.
I think Ayton is increasingly appearing to have flaws that it seems likely he will never overcome. Nevertheless, I agree with most of what you have said here.

And even with his flaws, there are ways to overcome them and still make him an effective part of building a very strong future team, by putting the right pieces around him and utilizing his strengths. Unfortunately, that is the tricky part for the Suns that could ultimately foil them. I don't think either our current coach nor the current ownership (in particular) would be committed to doing that.
 
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ASUCHRIS

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Same. I say the Suns need to force him to be more of the focal point. I don't watch a ton of Suns games like a lot of you here, but I see MANY examples of games where if the Suns just kept getting the ball to Ayton, they would be a lot more effective.
The guy makes shots at a unique rate, and was a better player overall this year. Yes, his postseason performance left something to be desired, but if that's the standard, you're getting rid of the whole team.

We desperately need creators, and not getting Gordon at the deadline was a huge mistake by James Jones.
 

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I theory the offense should run through Ayton more, but he doesn't have the presence down low to overcome a coach who actively gameplans to stop him. He's got bad hands and can't consistently establish position, back down his man or put the ball on the floor. Maybe that can develop, but he would lead the league in turnover if we ran the offense through him and his efficiency would plummet. And I don't think he can develop hands at this point.
 

nashman

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I theory the offense should run through Ayton more, but he doesn't have the presence down low to overcome a coach who actively gameplans to stop him. He's got bad hands and can't consistently establish position, back down his man or put the ball on the floor. Maybe that can develop, but he would lead the league in turnover if we ran the offense through him and his efficiency would plummet. And I don't think he can develop hands at this point.
Bad Hands can’t be said enough! For a big guy he loses so many passes and even rebounds get taken right out of his hands it’s crazy. And I agree if we tried to run it thru him even more his numbers would plummet. Jokic is the type of passer and hands a big needs and Ayton is far far far away from being that. Does he have small hands or something it’s crazy I don’t get how bad his hands are? And the soft layup crap under the basket is old dunk the damn ball dude your 7 ft tall, thought McGee would help his aggressiveness but DA soft as ever!
 

TJ

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Ayton is not eligible for the Supermax. I was thinking this too but then was reminded he isn't eligible yet. He doesn't have the years of service. The most money he can get is from the Suns because they can offer him a 5 year deal. His options are: Sign an offer sheet with another team and see if the Suns match. Sign his qualifying offer play out one more season then become an unrestricted free agent. Sign a 5 max contract with the Suns (stay or get traded).

If the Suns give Ayton Max we will be in luxury tax territory which will limit bringing anybody else with star caliber. Suns have $128.8 million in committed salary. If they give Ayton the Max? Does that mean we don't resign McGee with the mid-level? If we did both? The Suns would have the biggest luxury tax bill in the league.

I can't imagine Sarver letting that happen with a team who collapsed in spectacular fashion 2 years running. Not without gutting other parts of this team. To say this offseason is going to get interesting is an understatement.
Yes, I know. I was implying that he wont get the accolades to be eligible for a supermax if he doesn’t leave Phoenix.

As for Sarver, this is the same bozo who let James Jones go, which launched the path for the SSOL teams to not be title contenders, and happens to be under league investigation. He’s not to be trusted in this situation
 

Folster

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Bad Hands can’t be said enough! For a big guy he loses so many passes and even rebounds get taken right out of his hands it’s crazy. And I agree if we tried to run it thru him even more his numbers would plummet. Jokic is the type of passer and hands a big needs and Ayton is far far far away from being that. Does he have small hands or something it’s crazy I don’t get how bad his hands are? And the soft layup crap under the basket is old dunk the damn ball dude your 7 ft tall, thought McGee would help his aggressiveness but DA soft as ever!

Honestly, Sabonis and change would have been perfect for Ayton. He averages 19 and 12 with nearly 6 assists. I still think we lose because the wheels fell off of CP3 unless we got somebody like Haliburton in the deal as well.
 

Raindog

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Yes, I know. I was implying that he wont get the accolades to be eligible for a supermax if he doesn’t leave Phoenix.

As for Sarver, this is the same bozo who let James Jones go, which launched the path for the SSOL teams to not be title contenders, and happens to be under league investigation. He’s not to be trusted in this situation
I think you meant "Joe Johnson."

But yes, Sarver is a plague on the Suns franchise
 

TJ

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Right now, I have very little confidence that Ayton will be back to the point in which I’d be shocked if he returns. There’s been instability in his relationships w/ Sarver and Jones for a while, and losing Monty basically means Ayton’s on an island.
 

Cheesebeef

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Right now, I have very little confidence that Ayton will be back to the point in which I’d be shocked. There’s been instability in his relationships w/ Sarver and Jones for a while, and losing Monty basically means Ayton’s on an island.
He’s gone. You don’t even have to read between the lines here.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Same. I say the Suns need to force him to be more of the focal point. I don't watch a ton of Suns games like a lot of you here, but I see MANY examples of games where if the Suns just kept getting the ball to Ayton, they would be a lot more effective.
It’s crazy to me how similar Ayton and kyler are. Both tantalizing talents at positions of rarity that the valley teams really haven’t had (young QB and young center). Both questionable heads. Both demanding big dollars before they’ve proven worthy. Two owners not known for big stuffy pockets.

Euphoria when drafted
Shown glimpses of greatness
Disappointments
Remaining upside
Demanding huge dollars
 

Cheesebeef

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It’s crazy to me how similar Ayton and kyler are. Both tantalizing talents at positions of rarity that the valley teams really haven’t had (young QB and young center). Both questionable heads. Both demanding big dollars before they’ve proven worthy. Two owners not known for big stuffy pockets.

Euphoria when drafted
Shown glimpses of greatness
Disappointments
Remaining upside
Demanding huge dollars
Been thinking the same thing.

SHOCKER!
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Right now, I have very little confidence that Ayton will be back to the point in which I’d be shocked if he returns. There’s been instability in his relationships w/ Sarver and Jones for a while, and losing Monty basically means Ayton’s on an island.
It does sound like that. The fact it’s a “situation” with Monty means he’s not 100% in Ayton’s corner.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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“About the team in general.” Sounds like personnel discussions. Monty maybe dying for another guy who can create his own shot over a slew of guys who are good ball players but can’t ge their own shot?
 
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