the virtues of Smart-Ball

[1tinsoldier]

how does a relatively slow 37 year old score 14 consecutive baskets in an elimination game against mostly young studs in a sport dominated by the most athletic specimens in pro-sports?

smart-ball
timing, and picking his spots.
passing up open shots from distance for even higher percentage (often less flashy) shots for himself and his teammates (superstars like Curry never pass up an open shot).

how does superstar teams like the Lakers and Nets fail? stupid ball. taking turns playing one on one and taking low percentage shots. Kyrie, Harden, Durant, and Westbrook in particular -- awful. And Lebron, with his high bball iq on court, instigated stupid-ball by trying to simultaneaosly play GM.

and how about the stupid-ball of younger players like Townes and Russell who blew their series with bad decision making? thankfully, we had a smart GM a few years ago, who, instead of recruiting either one of those Booker buddies, paired him up with the smartest pg ever, who he could learn from and grow with -- as exemplified last game. Booker did the smart thing under the circumstances and got the job done by being a role player.

now, we'll face the Mavs who have a savvy superstar whose flaw is how ball dominant he is. If the Suns are smart -- and they are -- they'll find the way to give teams with a single superstar like Doncic or Trey Young the right amount of attention. We couldn't control the Greek Freak last year because he's, well, a physical freak.

unfortunately, a physical freak like Giannis or Shaq, for example, can trump a bb genius like Paul, who might be controlled if the opposing team is smart enough and quick enough on D.

but, overall, i'll take a smart team over an athletic team every time. and a great defensive team over a great offensive team. you can't be a great defensive team without playing smart-ball.

 

[Finito]

There is no secret code any style of play works as long as you have talent.

We don’t play small ball and we didn’t win because we played small we win because we have more talent and experience. In the NBA more than any other sport talent matters

 

[DJ Tabooh]

how does a relatively slow 37 year old score 14 consecutive baskets in an elimination game against mostly young studs in a sport dominated by the most athletic specimens in pro-sports?

smart-ball
timing, and picking his spots.
passing up open shots from distance for even higher percentage (often less flashy) shots for himself and his teammates (superstars like Curry never pass up an open shot).

how does superstar teams like the Lakers and Nets fail? stupid ball. taking turns playing one on one and taking low percentage shots. Kyrie, Harden, Durant, and Westbrook in particular -- awful. And Lebron, with his high bball iq on court, instigated stupid-ball by trying to simultaneaosly play GM.

and how about the stupid-ball of younger players like Townes and Russell who blew their series with bad decision making? thankfully, we had a smart GM a few years ago, who, instead of recruiting either one of those Booker buddies, paired him up with the smartest pg ever, who he could learn from and grow with -- as exemplified last game. Booker did the smart thing under the circumstances and got the job done by being a role player.

now, we'll face the Mavs who have a savvy superstar whose flaw is how ball dominant he is. If the Suns are smart -- and they are -- they'll find the way to give teams with a single superstar like Doncic or Trey Young the right amount of attention. We couldn't control the Greek Freak last year because he's, well, a physical freak.

unfortunately, a physical freak like Giannis or Shaq, for example, can trump a bb genius like Paul, who might be controlled if the opposing team is smart enough and quick enough on D.

but, overall, i'll take a smart team over an athletic team every time. and a great defensive team over a great offensive team. you can't be a great defensive team without playing smart-ball.

Interesting post. But calling out Curry for not passing up open shots isn’t right in my opinion. Steph’s gravity is the most unique in the game. He’s a threat once he crosses half court.

He’s led the league in hockey assists and though he’s not the passer CP3 is, he’s just as if not more effective. Would be very interesting if we played them in the WCF. Golden State is the one team in the West that I feel would give us the most problems.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Curry shouldn't pass up open shots and neither should any other good shooter. The point was that Paul is unique in that he takes shot selection to another level, and it is exactly why HE is the best closer in the game and Curry and Lebron and Embiid and Jokic and Durant and Kyrie, etc., are not -- and the Suns were 8 games ahead of every other team in the league.

also, i should add, there has never been a less selfish player in the league. It's clear he doesn't care what his stats are from game to game, or from quarter to quarter. It's always about the best strategy to win and the optimum path to achieving that is to keep everyone engaged -- and happy.

a model for us all

 

[Russ Smith]

Curry shouldn't pass up open shots and neither should any other good shooter. The point was that Paul is unique in that he takes shot selection to another level, and it is exactly why HE is the best closer in the game and Curry and Lebron and Embiid and Jokic and Durant and Kyrie, etc., are not -- and the Suns were 8 games ahead of every other team in the league.

also, i should add, there has never been a less selfish player in the league. It's clear he doesn't care what his stats are from game to game, or from quarter to quarter. It's always about the best strategy to win and the optimum path to achieving that is to keep everyone engaged -- and happy.

a model for us all

CP3 is a great player, HOF. as Reggie said he reads the room he knows when he needs to score.

 

[Proximo]

I will agree, CP3 seems to clearly be the smartest player in the league.

His shot selection, and decision making is in general fantastic.

This trumps talent to a great extent in the clutch, because he simply makes more optimal choices than the oponents. However this is not a guarentee of success, because there can always be fantastic defensive plays or outstanding 3 point shooting that can overcome some less than optimal decision making, but more times than not you will win if CP3 is on his game.

 

[Muggz]

It's simple really.
CP3 is a REAL PG. Probably one of the best ever. He doesn't just play the PG position like most everyone else in that spot.
He plays the ROLE of PG by definition to a sick and twisted fault. He's a General leading his troops and knows he's only as good as his troops.
That's why he puts in the time and demands results and accountability from the fellas.
He's a TRUE leader in every sense of the word.
And now he has his army.

It's time to go to WAR Mfers!

 

[1tinsoldier]

Suns won game 1 playing smart-ball, Dallas didn't. it's a fine strategy to have a player with the skills of Doncic dominate the ball in crunch time, but the whole game? he had 30 shot attempts. all 5 starters for the Suns had 36. for more than 44 minutes he dribbled around probing for a shot and passed to a waiting 3pt shooter when he didn't have one. their offense it totally manageable in a 7 game series -- and predictable -- as was the outcome. a great game for him in a team loss.

in the post-game interview, i could tell Kidd doesn't get it. Kidd himself, was one of the most savvy points but i never thought he sounded too bright off the court.

when Dallas had a slow start this season, the word was that Doncic needed to be less dominant and better coached. but after they made some roster changes and their defense improved significantly their success the second half of the season masked their weakness. Kidd actually gave the 23 year old kid more free reign.

i'll fear Doncic when he learns how to maximize his teammates. but not now even if he scores 50 next game.

we'll know for sure how Doncic-ball compares to smart-ball within a week or 2

 

[Russ Smith]

Suns won game 1 playing smart-ball, Dallas didn't. it's a fine strategy to have a player with the skills of Doncic dominate the ball in crunch time, but the whole game? he had 30 shot attempts. all 5 starters for the Suns had 36. for more than 44 minutes he dribbled around probing for a shot and passed to a waiting 3pt shooter when he didn't have one. their offense it totally manageable in a 7 game series -- and predictable -- as was the outcome. a great game for him in a team loss.

in the post-game interview, i could tell Kidd doesn't get it. Kidd himself, was one of the most savvy points but i never thought he sounded too bright off the court.

when Dallas had a slow start this season, the word was that Doncic needed to be less dominant and better coached. but after they made some roster changes and their defense improved significantly their success the second half of the season masked their weakness. Kidd actually gave the 23 year old kid more free reign.

i'll fear Doncic when he learns how to maximize his teammates. but not now even if he scores 50 next game.

we'll know for sure how Doncic-ball compares to smart-ball within a week or 2

I don't like Luka but I disagree with this take. Phoenix is a better team than Dallas top to bottom. The problem last night was Dallas couldn't guard Phoenix. the only reason Dallas ever kept in the game was Luka. The 3 point shooting works because of him. teams have to guard them a certain way and in doing so they give up something. That one play in the first half when he drove there's 5 Suns in the paint against him and he kicks it out to the left corner for a made 3, that shot only happens because of Luka.

I don't think their problem last night had anything to do with offense 117 points 47% overall 41 from 3, the problem was they could not guard Phoenix and that was just the Suns were too good for them IMO. I think Dallas probably wins one game in this series. Dinwiddie was a huge reason Dallas got better as the season went on, but he was not good at all last night missed 2 layups in the time I watched and was just not good enough. I figure they will at most win one game and it will be because of him having a good shooting night.

Dallas has to figure out how to defend the Suns they got killed on the glass last night due to size they have to figure out a counter.

 

[1tinsoldier]

i don't disagree with anything you said, except your conclusion. indeed, Luka-ball creates 3pt opportunities. but the question is whether Luca scoring from everywhere and his teammates mostly scoring from 3 is more potent than smart, balanced team basketball in a playoff series against a good defensive team.

If Luka shoots 50% or more with minimum turnovers and/or his team is hot from 3, they can win. In contrast, the Suns only need to play their average game to beat them.

Dallas won 2 playoff games without Luca (lost the first game he came back). so it's not a question of where Dallas would have gotten 45 points and their 3pt opportunities without him. Brunson averaged like 27 in the prior series with Luka out 2 games but didn't have the space or opportunities last night.

playing smart-ball is increasing your shooting percentage by getting high-percentage opportunities from multiple weapons that keep the defense guessing and needing to make adjustments. you know what you'll get with Dallas. we'll happily take 45 points and 5 turnovers from him in 44 minutes next game too.

iow, Luka-ball = Loser-ball in the playoffs. Dallas has a bright future of 2nd round playoff eliminations. they're unlikely to attract a free-agent stud to play sidekick. To become a contender, Dallas will need a stronger coach to change the team culture which is now in the hands of their young superstar.

and, btw, some people here were right to speculate that the Doncic - Booker combo would not have worked out.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

i don't disagree with anything you said, except your conclusion. indeed, Luka-ball creates 3pt opportunities. but the question is whether Luca scoring from everywhere and his teammates mostly scoring from 3 is more potent than smart, balanced team basketball in a playoff series against a good defensive team.

If Luka shoots 50% or more with minimum turnovers and/or his team is hot from 3, they can win. In contrast, the Suns only need to play their average game to beat them.

Dallas won 2 playoff games without Luca (lost the first game he came back). so it's not a question of where Dallas would have gotten 45 points and their 3pt opportunities without him. Brunson averaged like 27 in the prior series with Luka out 2 games but didn't have the space or opportunities last night.

playing smart-ball is increasing your shooting percentage by getting high-percentage opportunities from multiple weapons that keep the defense guessing and needing to make adjustments. you know what you'll get with Dallas. we'll happily take 45 points and 5 turnovers from him in 44 minutes next game too.

iow, Luka-ball = Loser-ball in the playoffs. Dallas has a bright future of 2nd round playoff eliminations. they're unlikely to attract a free-agent stud to play sidekick. To become a contender, Dallas will need a stronger coach to change the team culture which is now in the hands of their young superstar.

and, btw, some people here were right to speculate that the Doncic - Booker combo would not have worked out.

Luka is just the latest version of Russell Westbrook and will face similar issues.

 

[95pro]

Suns won game 1 playing smart-ball, Dallas didn't. it's a fine strategy to have a player with the skills of Doncic dominate the ball in crunch time, but the whole game? he had 30 shot attempts. all 5 starters for the Suns had 36. for more than 44 minutes he dribbled around probing for a shot and passed to a waiting 3pt shooter when he didn't have one. their offense it totally manageable in a 7 game series -- and predictable -- as was the outcome. a great game for him in a team loss.

in the post-game interview, i could tell Kidd doesn't get it. Kidd himself, was one of the most savvy points but i never thought he sounded too bright off the court.

when Dallas had a slow start this season, the word was that Doncic needed to be less dominant and better coached. but after they made some roster changes and their defense improved significantly their success the second half of the season masked their weakness. Kidd actually gave the 23 year old kid more free reign.

i'll fear Doncic when he learns how to maximize his teammates. but not now even if he scores 50 next game.

we'll know for sure how Doncic-ball compares to smart-ball within a week or 2

Kidd knows the outcome and shortcomings of his team, he’s going to say the right things and the positive things. He’s working with what he has and he knows it’s not good enough.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

When I watch the Mavs, I see Luka either take the shot or pass to a teammate who usually then takes the shot. I don't see the ball moving much other than this.

This isn't Luka's fault in my opinion. His teammates need to be able to further deconstruct the defense after the initial breakdown. The offense needs to have freedom and design to build actions off of the initial action.

 

[Mainstreet]

Suns won game 1 playing smart-ball, Dallas didn't. it's a fine strategy to have a player with the skills of Doncic dominate the ball in crunch time, but the whole game? he had 30 shot attempts. all 5 starters for the Suns had 36. for more than 44 minutes he dribbled around probing for a shot and passed to a waiting 3pt shooter when he didn't have one. their offense it totally manageable in a 7 game series -- and predictable -- as was the outcome. a great game for him in a team loss.

in the post-game interview, i could tell Kidd doesn't get it. Kidd himself, was one of the most savvy points but i never thought he sounded too bright off the court.

when Dallas had a slow start this season, the word was that Doncic needed to be less dominant and better coached. but after they made some roster changes and their defense improved significantly their success the second half of the season masked their weakness. Kidd actually gave the 23 year old kid more free reign.

i'll fear Doncic when he learns how to maximize his teammates. but not now even if he scores 50 next game.

we'll know for sure how Doncic-ball compares to smart-ball within a week or 2

I'm sure Jason Kidd wants to keep his job.

 

[1tinsoldier]

if he doesn't put on extra weight and slow down, Luka Doncic has a great future as James Harden. but i think he's smarter and will learn.

 

[Russ Smith]

i don't disagree with anything you said, except your conclusion. indeed, Luka-ball creates 3pt opportunities. but the question is whether Luca scoring from everywhere and his teammates mostly scoring from 3 is more potent than smart, balanced team basketball in a playoff series against a good defensive team.

If Luka shoots 50% or more with minimum turnovers and/or his team is hot from 3, they can win. In contrast, the Suns only need to play their average game to beat them.

Dallas won 2 playoff games without Luca (lost the first game he came back). so it's not a question of where Dallas would have gotten 45 points and their 3pt opportunities without him. Brunson averaged like 27 in the prior series with Luka out 2 games but didn't have the space or opportunities last night.

playing smart-ball is increasing your shooting percentage by getting high-percentage opportunities from multiple weapons that keep the defense guessing and needing to make adjustments. you know what you'll get with Dallas. we'll happily take 45 points and 5 turnovers from him in 44 minutes next game too.

iow, Luka-ball = Loser-ball in the playoffs. Dallas has a bright future of 2nd round playoff eliminations. they're unlikely to attract a free-agent stud to play sidekick. To become a contender, Dallas will need a stronger coach to change the team culture which is now in the hands of their young superstar.

and, btw, some people here were right to speculate that the Doncic - Booker combo would not have worked out.

Sure but Utah is not Phoenix, I just don't think Dallas can play "straight up" and beat Phoenix.

I think the best chance Dallas has in this series is to do what they do best, make 3's.

I do get that Luka is very ball dominant, but he is the one guy Phoenix has to help on it's the "gravity" thing. He needs to turn it over less 5 last night was a big issue but 46 points on 30 shots is actually not that bad given the level of defense he draws.

I'm not saying it's the only way for them to play I just think they're going to lose this series no matter what they're just not as good so putting the ball in your best players hands and asking him to take over I don't question. Part of the issue is as people said earlier in the year, Phoenix doesn't double that much so where he's seeing help is when he gets into the lane, he's not getting doubled 40 feet away where he can pass out and start a 4 on 3 constantly like Steph Curry does against so many teams.

If I were a Dallas fan I'd be very down right now, 46 from Luka, 5 3's from Kleber and they were still down double digits most of the game. I don't think they can play much better offensively against Phoenix I think they're going to have to find a way to do it defensively.

 

[Russ Smith]

if he doesn't put on extra weight and slow down, Luka Doncic has a great future as James Harden. but i think he's smarter and will learn.

That is of course the concern he has a "bad body" already what will it be like in a few years. Chris Mullin talked about that on tv the other night after the W's game he said people he knows say Dallas has already started to really push Luka about his diet because they see it. I don't know if that's what caused his famous chicken and vegetable diet but it's something they are concerned about too.

honestly it's why I wasn't convinced he was the best player in the draft that year he just has a bad body.

 

[1tinsoldier]

smart-ball breakdown of game 2:

1. Kidd said, "we did everything we needed to do" and "we had bad luck in the 4th quarter."
imo, he was a smart pg. he is a stupid coach.

2. Luka started the game passing up some shots to get others involved, then went back to Luka-ball. He shot over 50% but with 7 turnovers and weak defense he had the worst plus/minus. also, the Mavs took their only lead of the series with him on the bench. Barkley concurred that he has to learn to give up the ball.

3. Paul is out-smarting me too. i keep thinking the 37 year old can not keep doing what he's been doing in 4th quarters

4. though it worked out, i think Monty played it too safe by not playing Mcgee or Ayton early in the 4th with 3 fouls left to give between them.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Luka is just the latest version of Russell Westbrook and will face similar issues.

I think he’s more Harden than Russ.

 

[Russ Smith]

Ws thinking of this thread when Dallas made their run with Luka on the bench. I think it was also connected to who Phoenix had on the court but it was apparent they had better ball movement without him.

The thing with him I hate is perfect example first play of the game he drives has a shot passes it up and throws it away and then starts yelling and pointing at his teammate. You left your feet to pass, a no no, and you are blaming your teammate for not figuring out which way you were going to pass. You had the shot, even Miller on tv said he has to take that shot he's got both feet in the paint. Stuff like that as a teammate would piss me off. He's a great player but when he screws up, don't blame someone else

 

[95pro]

Ws thinking of this thread when Dallas made their run with Luka on the bench. I think it was also connected to who Phoenix had on the court but it was apparent they had better ball movement without him.

The thing with him I hate is perfect example first play of the game he drives has a shot passes it up and throws it away and then starts yelling and pointing at his teammate. You left your feet to pass, a no no, and you are blaming your teammate for not figuring out which way you were going to pass. You had the shot, even Miller on tv said he has to take that shot he's got both feet in the paint. Stuff like that as a teammate would piss me off. He's a great player but when he screws up, don't blame someone else

They showed him on those bad passes with him tapping his chest saying my fault.

 

[1tinsoldier]

credit Monty for his Luka strategy that crystalized in game 2:

1. single coverage. as a player or coach it would have been hard for me to stick to that plan given how prolific a scorer he is

2. the bonus of the single coverage comes in the 4th quarter -- exploiting his defense when he's got to be worn out. The stat is that the Suns averaged almost 2 points per possession with Luka defending.

if it continues this series it may become the model for playing Luka in the league.

can Kidd adjust? it may be too late in the game/series. they made their bed with Doncic and may have to sleep in it and hope the Suns get cold and/or a little bored and sloppy in Dallas

i'd suggest one adjustment for the Suns. when Luka starts rocking back and forth with the ball with 5 seconds or less on the shot clock he's just setting up his step-back 3 -- close in on him, make him drive and hope for the best from interior help.

 

[95pro]

credit Monty for his Luka strategy that crystalized in game 2:

1. single coverage. as a player or coach it would have been hard for me to stick to that plan given how prolific a scorer he is

2. the bonus of the single coverage comes in the 4th quarter -- exploiting his defense when he's got to be worn out. The stat is that the Suns averaged almost 2 points per possession with Luka defending.

if it continues this series it may become the model for playing Luka in the league.

can Kidd adjust? it may be too late in the game/series. they made their bed with Doncic and may have to sleep in it and hope the Suns get cold and/or a little bored and sloppy in Dallas

i'd suggest one adjustment for the Suns. when Luka starts rocking back and forth with the ball with 5 seconds or less on the shot clock he's just setting up his step-back 3 -- close in on him, make him drive and hope for the best from interior help.

I noticed Biz did this well. I was hoping the others would too before they got in foul trouble, but you have to watch for him jumping into you. Automatic foul benefitting Luka, offensive for the suns as it was called last night.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Luka is just the latest version of Russell Westbrook and will face similar issues.

Nah, Luka is just James Harden 2.0.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Nah, Luka is just James Harden 2.0.

Taller Harden. It is actually a really good comparison.