The Ayton Plan

[Hoop Head]

Those of you who want to stick it to Sarver, better start getting more votes in for Ayton so hopefully he can qualify for Super Max money. You needed to be voted into the All Star team, right?

That's only screwing ourselves because if Sarver pays that then he'll recoup that cash elsewhere. Probably trading someone we wouldn't have.

 

[Finito]

That's only screwing ourselves because if Sarver pays that then he'll recoup that cash elsewhere. Probably trading someone we wouldn't have.

And that right there is the problem. Your saying our team having to much talent is screwing ourselves because our cheap owner will just cut cost elsewhere

 

[JCSunsfan]

Um. I love Ayton and all, but the fact that this team does not seem to miss a beat when he is out has to say something. I think we need him for the playoff run, but the addition of JaVale and Biz along with the development of Stix makes us a much better team in the middle than last year.

It also goes to show that the center position might be more easily filled than we think. James Jones knows this. Is it possible that Ayton will not get the offers we think he migtht this summer?

We do need to keep our eyes open for a PGOF. This league has a number of new blood now playing--Trae, Ja, Garland. I wonder what will be available.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

Um. I love Ayton and all, but the fact that this team does not seem to miss a beat when he is out has to say something. I think we need him for the playoff run, but the addition of JaVale and Biz along with the development of Stix makes us a much better team in the middle than last year.

It also goes to show that the center position might be more easily filled than we think. James Jones knows this. Is it possible that Ayton will not get the offers we think he migtht this summer?

We do need to keep our eyes open for a PGOF. This league has a number of new blood now playing--Trae, Ja, Garland. I wonder what will be available.

Idk if this would happen, but I would love to have Dejounte Murray as our PGOF. Now the question is, what would we have to get him? He’s not the best shooter, but he’s improving and he does a lot of little things well (rebound, hounding defense) that you need in a guard to pair with Book.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Um. I love Ayton and all, but the fact that this team does not seem to miss a beat when he is out has to say something.

That was true for maybe a game or two, but the team is clearly better with Ayton in the lineup.

It also goes to show that the center position might be more easily filled than we think.

JC - if you think any of the poo poo platter behind Ayton can replace him, you'd be sorely disappointed. Those guys are the perfect foil to him, but they need Ayton as much as the entire team needs Ayton. Extended minutes expose any of the Suns bigs, and that's how Frank gets overtaxed and injured.

Further, what good bigs are out there that could possibly replace Ayton?

James Jones knows this. Is it possible that Ayton will not get the offers we think he migtht this summer?

No. Barring something crazy, the Suns will pay him a full max, at least if the goal is to try and win a championship.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Um. I love Ayton and all, but the fact that this team does not seem to miss a beat when he is out has to say something. I think we need him for the playoff run, but the addition of JaVale and Biz along with the development of Stix makes us a much better team in the middle than last year.

It also goes to show that the center position might be more easily filled than we think. James Jones knows this. Is it possible that Ayton will not get the offers we think he migtht this summer?

We do need to keep our eyes open for a PGOF. This league has a number of new blood now playing--Trae, Ja, Garland. I wonder what will be available.

This team does miss a beat without him but that doesn't mean we can't, for a short time, function almost as well without him. That's what good teams do, at least until the scouting reports catch up with you.

 

[Mainstreet]

This team does miss a beat without him but that doesn't mean we can't, for a short time, function almost as well without him. That's what good teams do, at least until the scouting reports catch up with you.

Agree the Suns would miss Ayton big time if they didn't have him. He makes the Suns backup centers look even better.

What I like about the Suns depth at center is they can play smaller, quicker lineups around them. Also the centers can play more aggressive while they are in the game without worry about foul trouble or getting fatigued. The other team has to feel a bit overwhelmed with the Suns size in the middle.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That was true for maybe a game or two, but the team is clearly better with Ayton in the lineup.

JC - if you think any of the poo poo platter behind Ayton can replace him, you'd be sorely disappointed. Those guys are the perfect foil to him, but they need Ayton as much as the entire team needs Ayton. Extended minutes expose any of the Suns bigs, and that's how Frank gets overtaxed and injured.

Further, what good bigs are out there that could possibly replace Ayton?

No. Barring something crazy, the Suns will pay him a full max, at least if the goal is to try and win a championship.

Ok. Where to start. Ok. Yes we are better, however we don't miss him nearly as much as most would think. The two guys behind him are no poo poo platter. It will be interesting to see what offers he gets.

 

[elindholm]

Ok. Where to start. Ok. Yes we are better, however we don't miss him nearly as much as most would think. The two guys behind him are no poo poo platter. It will be interesting to see what offers he gets.

Oh, he'll get maximum offers, no doubt of that. The question remains whether the Suns will match, or try to work a sign-and-trade.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh, he'll get maximum offers, no doubt of that. The question remains whether the Suns will match, or try to work a sign-and-trade.

I think they will match.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

I think they will match.

Agreed. If we do trade, what’s our return gonna be? DA will be a Sun. Does he have a Max motor? No. Does he have Max talent/potential. Yes. And the hope is as a 22-23 year old Big man, his best years are ahead of him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think they will match.

I'd be surprised if it even gets to the point where we'd have to match someone else's offer. If we're not prepared to give him the max, we'll trade him before the upcoming deadline otherwise we'll offer him the contract he wants as soon as we can.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Yes we are better, however we don't miss him nearly as much as most would think.

Yes, we do!!! Frank got hurt specifically because Ayton wasn't around. McGee is definitely best in limited minutes.

Yes, we would be a good team without Ayton, but Ayton is what makes us a championship level contending player. There is no replacement for what he does on defense.

The two guys behind him are no poo poo platter.

McGee is legit. You're seriously arguing that either Frank or Biyombo aren't poo poo platter players? They have both been out of the league within the last 2 years.

It will be interesting to see what offers he gets.

No, no it won't. He'll get a max, or the Suns will scare anyone else away who would make an offer.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'd be surprised if it even gets to the point where we'd have to match someone else's offer. If we're not prepared to give him the max, we'll trade him before the upcoming deadline otherwise we'll offer him the contract he wants as soon as we can.

He is not going to get the deal he wants.

Other teams can offer a four-year deal, we could offer five. Other teams can offer 5% annual raises, we can offer 8%. He is going to get the "other team" deal, not the "home team" deal and there is nothing Ayton can do about it except sign a one-year QO which would be foolish. The difference is substantial. The Suns could offer Ayton a 5-year $172.6 million deal while other teams can only offer a four-year $127.9 million deal.

I think this is James Jones' strategy in not extending him last summer. Ayton's agent wanted a "home team" max, and JJ was just not going to do that. If that was all they would discuss, there was no point in discussing. There is one risk. Some team could offer him a deal with a third-year player option.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes, we do!!! Frank got hurt specifically because Ayton wasn't around. McGee is definitely best in limited minutes.

Yes, we would be a good team without Ayton, but Ayton is what makes us a championship level contending player. There is no replacement for what he does on defense.

McGee is legit. You're seriously arguing that either Frank or Biyombo aren't poo poo platter players? They have both been out of the league within the last 2 years.



No, no it won't. He'll get a max, or the Suns will scare anyone else away who would make an offer.

I agree with almost everything you said except Frank Kaminsky and Bismack Biyombo are not poo poo platter players.

Kaminsky can be a rotation player for the right team and Biyombo was slow to return to the game because of the death of his father. He as well can be a rotation player.

If they are not rotation players it's because the Suns are blessed with size at center and I didn't even mention Jalen Smith. Also I feel obliged to mention Dario Saric (out) as well.

I too believe Ayton should be given the max. Ayton is a star in the making. Stars can't be easily replaced but it shouldn't take away from the quality of the Suns bench players.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I agree with almost everything you said except Frank Kaminsky and Bismack Biyombo are not poo poo platter players.

Kaminsky can be a rotation player for the right team and Biyombo was slow to return to the game because of the death of his father. He as well can be a rotation player.

If they are not rotation players it's because the Suns are blessed with size at center and I didn't even mention Jalen Smith. Also I feel obliged to mention Dario Saric (out) as well.

I too believe Ayton should be given the max. Ayton is a star in the making. Stars can't be easily replaced but it shouldn't take away from the quality of the Suns bench players.

Perhaps you misunderstand what I mean - anyone who is 9-12 in the rotation is on the edge of staying in the league, and for guys like Kaminsky/Biyombo, they'll likely stay in that role at best.

All can be effective in limited minutes, but no combo can replace or replicate what Ayton does.

 

[Mainstreet]

Perhaps you misunderstand what I mean - anyone who is 9-12 in the rotation is on the edge of staying in the league, and for guys like Kaminsky/Biyombo, they'll likely stay in that role at best.

All can be effective in limited minutes, but no combo can replace or replicate what Ayton does.

I guess I don't like the terminology "poo poo platter players." We are in agreement about Ayton.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He is not going to get the deal he wants.

Other teams can offer a four-year deal, we could offer five. Other teams can offer 5% annual raises, we can offer 8%. He is going to get the "other team" deal, not the "home team" deal and there is nothing Ayton can do about it except sign a one-year QO which would be foolish. The difference is substantial. The Suns could offer Ayton a 5-year $172.6 million deal while other teams can only offer a four-year $127.9 million deal.

I think this is James Jones' strategy in not extending him last summer. Ayton's agent wanted a "home team" max, and JJ was just not going to do that. If that was all they would discuss, there was no point in discussing. There is one risk. Some team could offer him a deal with a third-year player option.

This makes no sense to me, you are saying that because we can offer more years than anyone else we can get away with forcing him to accept less than max but still more than others? I thought you could only offer the 5 year extension after the 4th season if you give him the designated rookie scale extension which already determines how much he gets and what his raises will be?

But if you're right and we can still give him the longer deal and more money than others without giving him the max, the difference is hardly going to be worth antagonizing the player in this manner. Sure, we could be stupid and force him to either accept the QO or our offer, whatever it is, but do you really want to tie yourself up for years with an unhappy player? That's just bad business, something Sarver has excelled at in past but this is low even for him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Perhaps you misunderstand what I mean - anyone who is 9-12 in the rotation is on the edge of staying in the league, and for guys like Kaminsky/Biyombo, they'll likely stay in that role at best.

All can be effective in limited minutes, but no combo can replace or replicate what Ayton does.

Not misunderstanding. Disagreeing. Neither of those guys is on the edge of staying in the league. Even Biyombo had multiple offers to choose from. He just took his time finding the situation he wanted.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Not misunderstanding. Disagreeing. Neither of those guys is on the edge of staying in the league. Even Biyombo had multiple offers to choose from. He just took his time finding the situation he wanted.

JC, they were both literally out of the league within the last two years...they are barely NBA players.

I appreciate the respect for marginal NBA players, but guys like Frank/Bismack are a dime a dozen, and yes, they have to prove themselves every year to stick around.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not misunderstanding. Disagreeing. Neither of those guys is on the edge of staying in the league. Even Biyombo had multiple offers to choose from. He just took his time finding the situation he wanted.

I agree although his 9-12 description is accurate for Frank at least. Biyombo wasn't quite good enough as a regular starter but as your primary backup at center he's a steal. And to have him AND Javale? We've never had such riches at the 5 spot, few teams have.

 

[AzStevenCal]

JC, they were both literally out of the league within the last two years...they are barely NBA players.

I appreciate the respect for marginal NBA players, but guys like Frank/Bismack are a dime a dozen, and yes, they have to prove themselves every year to stick around.

Biyombo wasn't out of the league due to a lack of options.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This makes no sense to me, you are saying that because we can offer more years than anyone else we can get away with forcing him to accept less than max but still more than others? I thought you could only offer the 5 year extension after the 4th season if you give him the designated rookie scale extension which already determines how much he gets and what his raises will be?

But if you're right and we can still give him the longer deal and more money than others without giving him the max, the difference is hardly going to be worth antagonizing the player in this manner. Sure, we could be stupid and force him to either accept the QO or our offer, whatever it is, but do you really want to tie yourself up for years with an unhappy player? That's just bad business, something Sarver has excelled at in past but this is low even for him.

The QO is a one-year deal. He is not going to do that. Too risky. I think DA will be happy with a four-year $127.9 million offer. This is business. This is negotiating. JJ is negotiating from a position of strength that was designed to be so by the CBA. If all you are doing is making the person you are negotiating with happy, you have already lost the negotiation. A four-year $127.9 million deal is not an insulting offer.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I agree although his 9-12 description is accurate for Frank at least. Biyombo wasn't quite good enough as a regular starter but as your primary backup at center he's a steal. And to have him AND Javale? We've never had such riches at the 5 spot, few teams have.

If Saric comes back, we'll have another! Unfortunately none are very effective at the 4, where we could use another piece.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Saric comes back, we'll have another! Unfortunately none are very effective at the 4, where we could use another piece.

Yeah at some point it might have to be DA covering the minute gaps at the 4 although there's always the small chance that Smith will get as comfortable at the 4 as he's recently become at the 5.