Welcome back Andy Lee. 1 year deal.

daves

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I haven't found the underlying analytics for this Punter EPA chart, but this seems like a good place for it.

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...dave
 

Russ Smith

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I would like the cardinals to find a way to get Micheal Turk from ASU/Oklahoma to the team during the offseason, learn from Lee and replace him down the stretch. That kid has a booming leg.

Harry talked about this before the best punter in college football is Matt Araiza of San Diego State. It's interesting there's a lot of debate on how good he actually is because they let him do things at SDSU that other teams don't do. He averaged over 50 yards per punt but they were doing advanced metrics that he explained several times. If he's kicking from the 30 their belief was it's better to kick the ball lower, less hang time, and nail a 70 yarder for a touchback because the net is 50 yards, they get the ball at the 20 with no return. If you go for hangtime you might wind up in a similar position if they still get a return, even a 50 yard net punt is going to be at the 20 with hangtime and maybe a fair catch. his argument is it's much easier to do the 70 yarder with less hangtime.

But NFL teams strongly oppose that, too many good returners, risk of getting the punt blocked etc they want the guy with hangtime. Araiza CAN do the hangtime, but at SDSU they chose to let him just nail them now and then figuring if it goes into the endzone there's no return. he's also good at the coffin corner kicks he can do that stuff but what he excelled at was ensuring teams never got the ball past the 20 yard line. against Hawaii he kicked a ball from his own 12 yardline that landed on the other end at the 1 and into the endzone for a touchback. that's a 67 yard net.

So teams aren't really sure what to make of him can they get him to do hangtime punts or are they going to consider maybe doing what SDSU does. He also kicks but he's not accurate enough as a kicker.
 

JohnnyCakes

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I haven't found the underlying analytics for this Punter EPA chart, but this seems like a good place for it.

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...dave
For some reason it feels like the Raiders always have the beyond best punter in the league
 

pemory09

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For some reason it feels like the Raiders always have the beyond best punter in the league
Great point! Their current guy is excellent, for many years Shane Lechler was a fantastic punter for them, and of course Ray Guy, the first HOF punter, kicked for them for many, many years.
 

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Harry talked about this before the best punter in college football is Matt Araiza of San Diego State. It's interesting there's a lot of debate on how good he actually is because they let him do things at SDSU that other teams don't do. He averaged over 50 yards per punt but they were doing advanced metrics that he explained several times. If he's kicking from the 30 their belief was it's better to kick the ball lower, less hang time, and nail a 70 yarder for a touchback because the net is 50 yards, they get the ball at the 20 with no return. If you go for hangtime you might wind up in a similar position if they still get a return, even a 50 yard net punt is going to be at the 20 with hangtime and maybe a fair catch. his argument is it's much easier to do the 70 yarder with less hangtime.

But NFL teams strongly oppose that, too many good returners, risk of getting the punt blocked etc they want the guy with hangtime. Araiza CAN do the hangtime, but at SDSU they chose to let him just nail them now and then figuring if it goes into the endzone there's no return. he's also good at the coffin corner kicks he can do that stuff but what he excelled at was ensuring teams never got the ball past the 20 yard line. against Hawaii he kicked a ball from his own 12 yardline that landed on the other end at the 1 and into the endzone for a touchback. that's a 67 yard net.

So teams aren't really sure what to make of him can they get him to do hangtime punts or are they going to consider maybe doing what SDSU does. He also kicks but he's not accurate enough as a kicker.
Interesting and I knew nothing about him. Cards should shore up their punt returns and change FG position. Why? I think teams are just as afraid to go all out for the blitz in fear of the 15 yard penalty for roughing the kicker and the automatic first down. That changes if the team has nothing to lose for example, but that only happens maybe once a game.
 

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Interesting and I knew nothing about him. Cards should shore up their punt returns and change FG position. Why? I think teams are just as afraid to go all out for the blitz in fear of the 15 yard penalty for roughing the kicker and the automatic first down. That changes if the team has nothing to lose for example, but that only happens maybe once a game.

Yeah the idea is if you hit it and it goes out or gets downed inside the 10 that's great but even if it goes in for a touchback that's the 20. So they are banking on that usually being better than trying to hit a high hanging 45 yard kick that gets no return and maybe they do get a return etc.

it's an analytics thing and NFL teams don't seem to agree with what SDSU was doing they think the risk is too high on lower trajectory punts of getting a big return.
 

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Yeah the idea is if you hit it and it goes out or gets downed inside the 10 that's great but even if it goes in for a touchback that's the 20. So they are banking on that usually being better than trying to hit a high hanging 45 yard kick that gets no return and maybe they do get a return etc.

it's an analytics thing and NFL teams don't seem to agree with what SDSU was doing they think the risk is too high on lower trajectory punts of getting a big return.
I would give it a shot.
 

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Yeah the idea is if you hit it and it goes out or gets downed inside the 10 that's great but even if it goes in for a touchback that's the 20. So they are banking on that usually being better than trying to hit a high hanging 45 yard kick that gets no return and maybe they do get a return etc.

it's an analytics thing and NFL teams don't seem to agree with what SDSU was doing they think the risk is too high on lower trajectory punts of getting a big return.
This is going to be one of the most interesting offseasons this team has ever had, win or lose.
 

Russ Smith

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This is going to be one of the most interesting offseasons this team has ever had, win or lose.

he apparently is projected to get drafted this year. he declared for the draft. I suspect whoever gets him is probably going to tell him we want hangtime but it would be interesting if someone let him do what he did at SDSU. if it worked out would revolutionize punting in the NFL.

There's actually 2 or 3 guys in college this year who are considered almost worth drafting, Turk is one I forget the other guy Stonehouse or something like that his dad kicked in the NFL. he doesn't look like an athlete at all but set the alltime record for career average. He kicked for Colorado State so people are speculating the altitude helped his average

If we keep Prater I'd be inclined to keep Lee too for holding.
 

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he apparently is projected to get drafted this year. he declared for the draft. I suspect whoever gets him is probably going to tell him we want hangtime but it would be interesting if someone let him do what he did at SDSU. if it worked out would revolutionize punting in the NFL.

There's actually 2 or 3 guys in college this year who are considered almost worth drafting, Turk is one I forget the other guy Stonehouse or something like that his dad kicked in the NFL. he doesn't look like an athlete at all but set the alltime record for career average. He kicked for Colorado State so people are speculating the altitude helped his average

If we keep Prater I'd be inclined to keep Lee too for holding.

Kicking is such a huge part of the game, (who knew when they called the game football) it is surprising how much it is overlooked/undervalued until you need a clutch kick.
 

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Kicking is such a huge part of the game, (who knew when they called the game football) it is surprising how much it is overlooked/undervalued until you need a clutch kick.

Exactly as soon as Lee got Covid that was my comment, I am worried about the holder. And it killed us as Colt messed up 2 holds and Prater missed kicks.

One of the missed things from the 49ers win over the Rams, their holder couldn't hold at the end of the game so the fullback Juscyk (sp?) had to be the holder on both the XP to tie the game and the game winning FG.
 
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