Except most of Arnold's catches make no use of his height. Including the ones in the video above that SoonerLou referred to.
Kyler Murray has been working out since Jan
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Except most of Arnold's catches make no use of his height. Including the ones in the video above that SoonerLou referred to.
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CARY ANGELINE - TE
6'6" - 250
By Chad Reuter
Angeline (pronounced ANN-juh-line) was signed by USC for the 2016 class as a four-star, top-200 overall recruit. The first-team all-state pick from Chester Springs, Pennsylvania, was named the Trojans' Offensive Scout Player of the Year that fall. As a redshirt freshman, he played sparingly in two games (no statistics) before leaving the team. He transferred to North Carolina State, where he sat out the first two games per NCAA regulations before starting four of 11 games played (9-169-18.8, one TD). In 2019, Angeline was an honorable mention All-ACC selection and earned Wolfpack honors as the team's top receiver despite only starting four of 12 games played (25-379-15.2, five TDs). In 2020, he was again an honorable mention all-conference pick after tying for the team lead with six receiving touchdowns (27-412-15.3 receiving in 12 games/eight starts).
By Lance Zierlein
Numerous prospects each year have basketball backgrounds from their high school days, but few have it show up on tape like Angeline does. Keep in mind his blocking demeanor is more basketball player than tight end. He currently lacks the toughness and play strength to sustain blocks at the NFL level. As a pass catcher, he uses his long strides to climb past linebackers and is able to work vertically and across the hashes on intermediate routes. He's athletic catching on the move with soft, sticky hands and uses his basketball footwork when separating near the end zone. He's basically a bigger, taller receiver, but there's talent to consider as a pass-catching option.
6'6" - 250
By Chad Reuter
Angeline (pronounced ANN-juh-line) was signed by USC for the 2016 class as a four-star, top-200 overall recruit. The first-team all-state pick from Chester Springs, Pennsylvania, was named the Trojans' Offensive Scout Player of the Year that fall. As a redshirt freshman, he played sparingly in two games (no statistics) before leaving the team. He transferred to North Carolina State, where he sat out the first two games per NCAA regulations before starting four of 11 games played (9-169-18.8, one TD). In 2019, Angeline was an honorable mention All-ACC selection and earned Wolfpack honors as the team's top receiver despite only starting four of 12 games played (25-379-15.2, five TDs). In 2020, he was again an honorable mention all-conference pick after tying for the team lead with six receiving touchdowns (27-412-15.3 receiving in 12 games/eight starts).
By Lance Zierlein
Numerous prospects each year have basketball backgrounds from their high school days, but few have it show up on tape like Angeline does. Keep in mind his blocking demeanor is more basketball player than tight end. He currently lacks the toughness and play strength to sustain blocks at the NFL level. As a pass catcher, he uses his long strides to climb past linebackers and is able to work vertically and across the hashes on intermediate routes. He's athletic catching on the move with soft, sticky hands and uses his basketball footwork when separating near the end zone. He's basically a bigger, taller receiver, but there's talent to consider as a pass-catching option.
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Sky's the limit as Kyler Murray improves – Arizona Cardinals offensive film study with Kurt Warner - YouTube
this is really interesting. Part 1 from Kurt on the good
part 2 is coming on where K1 needs to improve
this is really interesting. Part 1 from Kurt on the good
part 2 is coming on where K1 needs to improve
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Kurt to he honest had to show even the part in which he couldn't see the receiver wide open because he couldn't read the field but he just throw to the guy he decided to throw pre snap
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It's exactly what I said in another thread.
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if the worst thing is your QB completes a harder pass for more yardage than an easier pass for fewer yards....... i will take that
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One think, which I like, is playing aggressive another thing is not seeing sometimes the open receivers downfield
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I dont know if he predetermined the throw. I do think he stuck a little long on the read. Seemed like he was reading Kirk to Hopkins and felt comfortable enough that it'd be there.
Seattle's pass rush was terrible that day so I dont have a problem with it. However, when facing better pass rush, better defenses he needs to get rid of the ball sooner.
Seattle's pass rush was terrible that day so I dont have a problem with it. However, when facing better pass rush, better defenses he needs to get rid of the ball sooner.
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id be more concerned if he passed on the wide open flat and threw into double coverage for an incompletion/ int. he didnt, he just threw to a less open receiver
also: as KW pointed out, he hit Drake in the flat on a similar concept when Hop wasnt open earlier
in part 2, i suspect KW is going to point out all sorts of things to work on .... you saw a little of that on the pass to Maxx with regards to footwork, etc
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Not true. I recall many passes Arnold had to go up for, including a memorable jump ball TD. Let’s not forget that kyler has had a history of sailing passes high.
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BONUS episode: Kyler Murray needs to improve in these areas – Kurt Warner breaks down the game tape - YouTube
also good. these all 22 looks are great, and Warner describes coverage.
watching also gives you some insight on Kliffs route concepts as well
also good. these all 22 looks are great, and Warner describes coverage.
watching also gives you some insight on Kliffs route concepts as well
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For Kyler it seems he doesnt trust throwing over the middle. Dont know if he's worried about passes sailing, not seeing clearly, etc. Just not pulling the trigger over the middle.
Edit: Had a couple guys open on the play he hurt his shoulder. Quicker trigger there and maybe the 2nd half of the season goes different.
One of things I would have Kyler work on (outside of improving his ability to throw on the run). Its throwing in a muddy pocket.
I'd have Simmons/Collins blitzing up the middle and having him work on sliding and getting the ball out.
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Chopper0080
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Basically highlights what I think we all know and see.
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Kurts pretty balanced, and i suspect he probably goes a bit light on criticism because his opinion in AZ holds more weight than if he were talking about Tua or Jalen Hurts
K1 is close --- and at least in the spots Warner picked out shows that plays are there to be made --
K1 is close --- and at least in the spots Warner picked out shows that plays are there to be made --
Except it is true. This has practically all his catches on. How many of them use his height and couldn't be caught by Kirk or anyone else?
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It is, but it isn't not concerning. Kurt is basically saying his eyes are often in the wrong place because he can't read defences and he's leaving a lot of yards on the field.
He has 2 years in the NFL now with 32 starts. This isn't something you can simply put down to lack of college starts. This is something a lot of QB's have to learn when they come into the NFL because college offenses are a lot different and guys are much more open.
This has to be fixed this year.
Chopper0080
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lol except this is the exact reason it is true. Oklahoma is so stacked vs their competition, in the one year Kyler did start he didn't have to make quick and complicated progression reads because his protection was so good along with having high quality WRs.
A great offensive line in college can enable the QB to lock on to one WR and wait for that WR to eventually win.
A great offensive line in college does not force the QB to quickly progress through his reads so he can get to his outlet and avoid a sack or pressure.
Great WRs in college enable QBs to read the single matchup and wait for the WR to win unless it is a clear double vs in the NFL where you do not have the time or matchup to do so.
Great WRs in college create large amounts of separation which does not force the QB to throw the WR open away from coverage or maintain good footwork to enable the most accurate throw which allows the WR to catch the ball while maintaining speed.
So, limited experience in college and then had such a great supporting cast and has such tremendous ability that he never had to learn the nuances of the position. 2 years in the NFL doesn't just fix that.
My point was everything you wrote here applies to many QBs coming into the NFL. It's not unique to Kyler.
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he made plenty of reads to be good -- he didn't do it consistently enough to be great.
i think a full year of offseason will help, as well as another year in the system. Better weapons and o-line doesn't hurt either.
i think those things will come.
my only question is if K1 is will to work on the footwork/fundamental issues that lead to off target throws.
I get the funky platform throws when the play breaks down, but on clean pocket it needs to be better. Hitting Rondale Moore in stride vs making him chop his feet to make a catch can be a 20 yard difference.
i think a full year of offseason will help, as well as another year in the system. Better weapons and o-line doesn't hurt either.
i think those things will come.
my only question is if K1 is will to work on the footwork/fundamental issues that lead to off target throws.
I get the funky platform throws when the play breaks down, but on clean pocket it needs to be better. Hitting Rondale Moore in stride vs making him chop his feet to make a catch can be a 20 yard difference.
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Ouchie-Z-Clown
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Did it show all 51 of his catches as a cardinal?
I wonder how Kliff handles Kyler?
He seems like a kids gloves kinda guy to me and that he's more likely to tell him how awesome he is than say "You have to do better. You missed Nuk here for a TD, you missed Kirk here for 40" etc
He seems like a kids gloves kinda guy to me and that he's more likely to tell him how awesome he is than say "You have to do better. You missed Nuk here for a TD, you missed Kirk here for 40" etc
Chopper0080
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Kinda yes and kinda no. Most QBs drafted do not make an impact for a lot of these reasons, that is correct. So, Kyler's struggles are no different than the many QBs who are drafted and then can't make it in the league.
Also, yes, many QBs who are drafted high without much college experience also fail out of the league for these same reasons. This is why guys like Bill Parcells would not draft a QB with under 30 college games started. Mitch Trubisky is an example of a player whose college experience was similar to Kyler and also struggled.
Where it is wrong is that most #1 overall QBs have significantly more college snaps than Kyler did so your learning curve example does not apply. So, while their supporting cast may have enabled some bad habits, they also have enough game experience to be able to just focus on speeding up their process vs learning the progression passing game AND speeding up the process at the same time.
You are choosing to ignore that Kyler is an outlier and that 1st round QBs with his number of starts in college have a history of failing at the NFL level.
So, yes, a bunch of college dudes failed at QB in the NFL for all the reasons/areas that Kyler is currently struggling in (and he is well ahead in other areas).
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