Maybe something or maybe nothing

[Solar7]

Sounds like you are building the old " Wait till next year Cardinals"

Haha, I wish. I feel like that's what Krang is doing. Every year we point out how much cap space we're going to have, it's immediately tighter than people promised. I recall one or two years ago was supposed to be the big year, but we'd all kinda ignored that we needed to refill the roster, so we ended up with mid-level FAs that obviously didn't make a difference.

 

[football karma]

I checked again and it's probably more like $5.5m.

1st and 2nd round alone are $3.9m. Then the lower round picks bring it to about $5.5m.

there is some netting out of the rookie pool that results in it not fully counting the $5.5

for every rookie signed, it knocks a $850k minimum contract guy out of the top 53

so: 6 draft picks x $850k minimum player out of the top 53 = $5.1 mm

that means the $5.5mm rookie pool will actually only take up $400k in additional cap space

 

[football karma]

the Cards overall are in really good shape cap wise

the cap figures pushed out via voidable years isnt really an outlier relative to the rest of the league -- everyone has resorted to cap gymnastics to create space: voidable years, converting salary to bonus, etc

to get Pugh and Hicks to straight out take pay cuts is an accomplishment. The Seahawks just one of their better defensive lineman in Jarran Reed when refused to restructure

 

[outcent13]

Not sure if he fits but maybe someone like Clowney? Having a dominate pass rush would ease some concerns on the backend.

 

[juza76]

Not sure if he fits but maybe someone like Clowney? Having a dominate pass rush would ease some concerns on the backend.

U don't dominate anything with clowney

 

[Praxis]

Devondre Campbell? Corey Peters?

 

[BritCard]

there is some netting out of the rookie pool that results in it not fully counting the $5.5

for every rookie signed, it knocks a $850k minimum contract guy out of the top 53

so: 6 draft picks x $850k minimum player out of the top 53 = $5.1 mm

that means the $5.5mm rookie pool will actually only take up $400k in additional cap space

Yeah the top 51, but it's a red herring. The only cap that count's is the final 53 for which we have $182.5m.

Maybe your 7th rounders don't count against the cap in the off season because they don't make it into the top 51, but if they stick they will do when the top 51 rule ends.

For the purposes of cap management and cap space it's best to always work with the final 53 number as that's the only one that really matters.

It used to always boil my piss when Mitch would write a whole paragraph about how if we sign X guy for $2m it's only costing us an extra $1.2m against the cap because it pushes X guy earning $800k out of the top 51. It's crap.

The top 51 ends at the start of September. If a guy has a $2m cap hit he's going to cost you $2m against the cap by the time the season starts.

 

[AZman5103]

U don't dominate anything with clowney

His price has got to be at an all time low. Clowney has more upside to produce than Golden or Gardeck, even though I love those guys.

As a #3 pass rusher behind Jones and Watt...Clowney would probably have the best year of his career.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

U don't dominate anything with clowney

When he's healthy, you absolutely do. As Chris Simms says, he's an F up the play guy. He may not get all the sacks, but he gets the double teams and plays the run/holds contain really well. Still has great lateral quickness.

Unfortunately, it's the injury bug that gets to him... He'll be a 1 year at a time contract player the rest of his career now.

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[ASUCHRIS]

When he's healthy, you absolutely do. As Chris Simms says, he's an F up the play guy. He may not get all the sacks, but he gets the double teams and plays the run/holds contain really well. Still has great lateral quickness.

Unfortunately, it's the injury bug that gets to him... He'll be a 1 year at a time contract player the rest of his career now.

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As a rotational DE, he and Watt would be nice options to set the edge. Considering our go for broke attitude, why not?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Will we have money to pay for GOOD players? Will they be available? That's the issue. We sure as hell haven't been able to draft them. With Kyler's contract becoming an albatross at that time, how much money will we have to throw around?

And we're eating into the $60 million with voidable year money.

If you are counting on just free agency to build a good team, then you will always suck.

I'm not worried about cap space;. I'm worried that Keim will continue to have draft classes that are all gone in 2 years.

 

[QuebecCard]

His price has got to be at an all time low. Clowney has more upside to produce than Golden or Gardeck, even though I love those guys.

As a #3 pass rusher behind Jones and Watt...Clowney would probably have the best year of his career.

Clowney is simply a good against the run, mediocre pass rusher.

People have been paying a premium for his so-called upside for years.

I'll pass.

 

[tnmike]

As a rotational DE, he and Watt would be nice options to set the edge. Considering our go for broke attitude, why not?

He played with Watt before but I don't recall any great accomplishments on his part

 

[football karma]

Yeah the top 51, but it's a red herring. The only cap that count's is the final 53 for which we have $182.5m.

Maybe your 7th rounders don't count against the cap in the off season because they don't make it into the top 51, but if they stick they will do when the top 51 rule ends.

For the purposes of cap management and cap space it's best to always work with the final 53 number as that's the only one that really matters.

It used to always boil my piss when Mitch would write a whole paragraph about how if we sign X guy for $2m it's only costing us an extra $1.2m against the cap because it pushes X guy earning $800k out of the top 51. It's crap.

The top 51 ends at the start of September. If a guy has a $2m cap hit he's going to cost you $2m against the cap by the time the season starts.

im not sure i follow

top 51 or 53, the concept is still valid.

Mitch is correct as it relates to measurement of the margin under/over the cap.

so: Signing (and keeping) all the draft picks will use $5.5mm of cap space. But relative to the measure of available cap space, signing all the draft picks will only decrease currently available cap space by $400k or so.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Clowney, #1 overall pick, is going on like his 4th team in 7 years. There has to be a reason for that.

 

[BritCard]

im not sure i follow

top 51 or 53, the concept is still valid.

Mitch is correct as it relates to measurement of the margin under/over the cap.

so: Signing (and keeping) all the draft picks will use $5.5mm of cap space. But relative to the measure of available cap space, signing all the draft picks will only decrease currently available cap space by $400k or so.

Yeah, current available. But what does current available matter? What difference does it make that the guy you sign for $2m only effects the cap by $1.2m right now if you know that when it really matters and you get down to 53 he's going to count as $2m?

At the end of the day that's what GM's are planning towards right? The final 53 and the cap at the start of the season.

 

[football karma]

Yeah, current available. But what does current available matter?

it matters as it relates to current cap space -- which OTC shows as $15mm

the team doesnt have to "reserve" $5.5mm for rookies out of that $15mm

they only have to reserve $400k.

that $5.1mm in difference may mean one additional higher end player can be added

 

[Chopper0080]

I checked again and it's probably more like $5.5m.

1st and 2nd round alone are $3.9m. Then the lower round picks bring it to about $5.5m.

What you are forgetting is that only your top 51 contracts are counted against the cap. Our cutoff is currently 850k so the 5th and two 7ths are not going to require additional funds.

 

[Chopper0080]

it matters as it relates to current cap space -- which OTC shows as $15mm

the team doesnt have to "reserve" $5.5mm for rookies out of that $15mm

they only have to reserve $400k.

that $5.1mm in difference may mean one additional higher end player can be added

This is correct. We already have 51 contracts to account for. The additional space we require is the difference between those five rookie contracts and the bottom 5 salaries on our 51 (I think they are all 850k). Because our lowest is 850k, only the 1st and 2nd will results in contracts that are above those amounts and the Cardinals just need the space to cover the difference. So 2.67 + 1.25 - .850 - .850 which comes to 2.22 mil.

 

[Ronin]

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[BritCard]

What you are forgetting is that only your top 51 contracts are counted against the cap. Our cutoff is currently 850k so the 5th and two 7ths are not going to require additional funds.

No, I pointed out that 51 only count....at the moment.

But eventually 53 count, and ultimately that's what matters. The top 51 is a temporary measure to help account for the 90 players through camp.

But when we go down to 53 that goes away as does all the benefits regarding cap space.

 

[football karma]

But when we go down to 53 that goes away as does all the benefits regarding cap space.

think of it this way:

with the top 53 contracts today, the Cards have ~$14mm in cap space.

they draft and sign 6 rookies with a total cap hit of $5.5mm, so they are down to $8.5mm in space

one minute later, they cut 6 players who were due to make $850k each in salary in 2021, saving $5.1mm

cap space is back up to $13.6mm

net change in cap space = -$0.4 million

 

[BritCard]

think of it this way:

with the top 53 contracts today, the Cards have ~$14mm in cap space.

they draft and sign 6 rookies with a total cap hit of $5.5mm, so they are down to $8.5mm in space

one minute later, they cut 6 players who were due to make $850k each in salary in 2021, saving $5.1mm

cap space is back up to $13.6mm

net change in cap space = -$0.4 million

What's any of that got to do with the top 51? This isn't about being able to sign the rookie draft pool.

My point is that I often see people say "They only count for an additional X against the cap because of the top 51" which may well be temporarily true but no GM or cap manager is planning the cap based on a temporary break.

You wouldn't plan your monthly budget for the year based on a few summer months when you get a bonus would you?

So yes, for a few months the rookie pool won't cost us the full amount due to a temporary "tax break". But they will eventually and that's what you have to plan for.

 

[don7031]

The Cardinals need defensive line depth (Cory Peters) and another retread at cornerback.

The hope is that with a full off season of OTA's and preseason that Josh Jones will be a viable option for the right side of the line. If Marcus Gilbert can play the Cardinals will go with what they have, otherwise they will be in the market for a journeyman backup.

As much as we want to see them upgrade positions, limiting the drop off when it's next man up is important.

 

[Arz101]

With all the created cap, the best ambulance chaser GM in NFL is going to sign a prime 2015 defensive player in 2021. Gambo will be like " they really really love his leadership, great addition to the roster......they think he can contribute as a starter
.......

"



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