My offensive starters evaluation

BritCard

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He has already won the superbowl that's why he signed an extension here
With your numbers u are basically saying Chandler Jones doesn't have a real impact after all
So then I ask u, what about Budda baker and his 2 interceptions and 20pass deflected in 61 games
Averaging 1 interception in 30 games
1 pass deflected in 3 games
1 forced fumble in 12 games

I'm not saying he has no impact. Far from it.

I'm saying one player on a bad team no matter how good he is, cannot make enough difference.

It's time to take that money and put it towards rebuilding the team.

(And yes I know he has a SB, obvs I meant another)
 

BritCard

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not a great analysis. how can you pretend our success is 100% correlated to the number of sacks CJ has? thats so ignorant I almost didnt respond.

Teams love having players in their contract year. Thats undisputed.

I'm not. I'm saying having a bad team and a few good players is pointless. We need to start building a good team and a 32 year old CJ isn't the future.
 

juza76

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I'm not. I'm saying having a bad team and a few good players is pointless. We need to start building a good team and a 32 year old CJ isn't the future.
He still 30, speed isn't his strength so I think he can be very effective for 2/3 years, his strength are hands technique and ability to bend without losing power
Pass rushers are so valuable and Jones is still a top 5, imho
 

BritCard

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He still 30, speed isn't his strength so I think he can be very effective for 2/3 years, his strength are hands technique and ability to bend without losing power
Pass rushers are so valuable and Jones is still a top 5, imho

He's 31 in a month. And when it comes to his new deal next year he will be 32. Do you really want to be extending 32 year old pass rushers?

Can we not learn from P2 and try get something back for guy instead of waiting for them to burn out?

Jones is still great (or was at least). He didn't look so great in his first 4 games of the season. In fact it was by far his worst start to a season statistically (and it you care in PFF grade) and the only good player he went against was Trent Williams. He couldn't even get a sack vs the Redskins against some schlub in his first ever start.

Anyone remember the DJ extension? When we extended him based on what he was and ignored what we saw before his injury?I don't fancy doing that again.
 

Zeem_Freeze

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I'm not. I'm saying having a bad team and a few good players is pointless. We need to start building a good team and a 32 year old CJ isn't the future.
I think our window for a superbowl is open. Given that, you keep a pro-bowler in a contract year. I think we see big production out of CJ next year above his contract value.
 
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Solar7

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I'm not saying he has no impact. Far from it.

I'm saying one player on a bad team no matter how good he is, cannot make enough difference.

It's time to take that money and put it towards rebuilding the team.

(And yes I know he has a SB, obvs I meant another)
Hate to break it to you, but this team isn't going to start looking to rebuilding. Keim and Kliff both have one year to save their jobs. With their backs against the wall, they're not going to start building assets for whoever comes next.
 

Chopper0080

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Not based on coaching or play calling.

Qb - Murray solid but has a lot of room to improve.
Rb - Drake is just okay and probably replaceable. Edmonds very good but more situational or change of pace.
Wr- Hopkins is a stud. Kirk is no better than a #3. Fitz I believe is gone.
TE- Max Williams, the best ability is availability which he seldom is. Arnold is very good but needs to focus. Too many dumb pre-snap penalties.
Center- Cole is below average and should be relegated to backup
Guards- Sweezy is done. Pugh is not far behind.
OT- Humphries have silenced the critics. Beachum did okay but one would hope Jones could step into that spot.
Special teams. Brewer as long snapper is solid. P- Lee is above average punter. K Gonzalez has lost all confidence in the fan base. PR - As far as I’m concerned we don’t have a real threat. Wish we would have kept Cooper. He would have also helped the Wr room.

So once again we are looking to improve our o-line especially interior lineman. We drastically need to add weapons at Rb and Wr despite drafting and missing too often.
Here is an area that frustrates me a bit. People fail to recognize that the offensive line drives the bus. Every WR in the NFL can get open if you give them long enough. Every RB can get you 80 yards per game if you block for them. What drives the production is the line and the QB, and what drives the QB is the line.
 
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TheCardFan

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I think our OL coach is excellent. Think about what he did with that line this year (Pugh, Cole, Sweezy, Murray, and Beachum). Those guys are washed or back-ups on most teams (Beachum excluded).

Can't wait to see what he can do next year.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Here is an area that frustrates me a bit. People fail to recognize that the offensive line drives the bus. Every WR in the NFL can get open if you give them long enough. Every RB can get you 80 yards per game if you block for them. What drives the production is the

Here is an area that frustrates me a bit. People fail to recognize that the offensive line drives the bus. Every WR in the NFL can get open if you give them long enough. Every RB can get you 80 yards per game if you block for them. What drives the production is the line and the QB, and what drives the QB is the line.
Correct, and other than DJ and Cooper, has Keim drafted an OL before round 4? I guess he did with Jones last year in round 3.
 

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I think our OL coach is excellent. Think about what he did with that line this year (Pugh, Cole, Sweezy, Murray, and Beachum). Those guys are washed or back-ups on most teams (Beachum excluded).
I
Can't wait to see what he can do next year.
Agree 100%. But, if you don’t start giving that excellent OL coach some legitimate talent, then Murray & this offense are dead in the water. The interior of our OL is awful, and worse than being awful, they are soft.
 

PACardsFan

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Correct, and other than DJ and Cooper, has Keim drafted an OL before round 4? I guess he did with Jones last year in round 3.
I was sorry to watch your Buckeyes take it on the chin last night. Bama is an offensive juggernaut, but they will miss Sarkisian moving forward. As always, OSU will be back in the mix next season.
 

Chopper0080

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Correct, and other than DJ and Cooper, has Keim drafted an OL before round 4? I guess he did with Jones last year in round 3.
Keim has tried but jut like a lot of things has never got the bang for his buck.

Pugh has been a nice signing, but never a difference maker.

Sweezy a good value signing, but not a difference maker.

Shipley...same.

Cole and Gaillard but their shortcomings were on display this year.

Beachum had a good year but wore down.

We have a collection of pretty average talent and we have received pretty average results. You get what you pay for.
 

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Agree 100%. But, if you don’t start giving that excellent OL coach some legitimate talent, then Murray & this offense are dead in the water. The interior of our OL is awful, and worse than being awful, they are soft.

2020 (Offence)

pass yds: 4102 (16) - 16 (softer) including 6 playoff teams

pass TDs: 27 (13) - 19 (softer) including 6 playoff teams

sacks: 29 (11) - 21 (softer) including 6 playoff teams

rush yds: 2237 (7) - 25 (softer) including 10 playoff teams

rush yds: (per carry) 4.7 (8) - 24 (softer) including 9 playoff teams

Rush TDs: 22 (4) - 28 (softer) including 10 playoff teams

TOTAL TDs: 49 (8) - 24 (softer) including 3 playoff teams
 
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PACardsFan

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2020 (Offence)

pass yds: 4102 (16) - 16 (softer) including 6 playoff teams

pass TDs: 27 (13) - 19 (softer) including 6 playoff teams

sacks: 29 (11) - 21 (softer) including 6 playoff teams

rush yds: 2237 (7) - 25 (softer) including 10 playoff teams

rush yds: (per carry) 4.7 (8) - 24 (softer) including 9 playoff teams

Rush TDs: 22 (4) - 28 (softer) including 10 playoff teams

TOTAL TDs: 49 (8) - 24 (softer) including 3 playoff teams
Once Murray injured his shoulder, our run game tanked. Moral of the story: without Murray’s legs & escapability, this OL was well below average. A healthy Murray camouflaged all our OL warts.
 

GuernseyCard

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Once Murray injured his shoulder, our run game tanked. Moral of the story: without Murray’s legs & escapability, this OL was well below average. A healthy Murray camouflaged all our OL warts.

Moral of the story: Find a better definition than "soft" to describe our O-line or accept there are statistically a lot softer out there.

P.S. One can argue that the quick-release of Ben Roethlisberger hides O-line shortcomings or that an exceptional runner like Lamar Jackson hides others.
 

Proximo

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CJ had a slow start.

But that’s what it was, a slow start.

Meanwhile, Peterson has been garbage since 2019.

You can still play at a good level at his age as a pass-rusher.

It’s hard as hell to do it as a CB at the same age.

Just have to point out you have no idea if Jones slow start isn't the start of his garbage period, there is no guarantee his play improves.

I would be firmly on the trade Jones bandwagon except for one thing - Keim is making our draft picks.
 

PACardsFan

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Moral of the story: Find a better definition than "soft" to describe our O-line or accept there are statistically a lot softer out there.

P.S. One can argue that the quick-release of Ben Roethlisberger hides O-line shortcomings or that an exceptional runner like Lamar Jackson hides others.
“Soft” is the perfect definition of the interior of our OL. If you want to change that definition to “sucks”, that’s fine too. I’m good with either.
 

Chopper0080

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Moral of the story: Find a better definition than "soft" to describe our O-line or accept there are statistically a lot softer out there.

P.S. One can argue that the quick-release of Ben Roethlisberger hides O-line shortcomings or that an exceptional runner like Lamar Jackson hides others.
A lack of physicality which prevents them from being able to move opposing players off the ball enabling the opposing team to dictate the LOS.
 

Chopper0080

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“Soft” is the perfect definition of the interior of our OL. If you want to change that definition to “sucks”, that’s fine too. I’m good with either.
How about a finesse offensive line. Less athletically talented offensive line. Mostly average to below average offensive line.
 

GuernseyCard

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“Soft” is the perfect definition of the interior of our OL. If you want to change that definition to “sucks”, that’s fine too. I’m good with either.

2020 (Offence)

pass yds: 4102 (16) - 16 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

pass TDs: 27 (13) - 19 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

sacks: 29 (11) - 21 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

rush yds: 2237 (7) - 25 (suckier) including 10 playoff teams

rush yds: (per carry) 4.7 (8) - 24 (suckier) including 9 playoff teams

Rush TDs: 22 (4) - 28 (suckier) including 10 playoff teams

TOTAL TDs: 49 (8) - 24 (suckier) including 3 playoff teams
 

PACardsFan

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2020 (Offence)

pass yds: 4102 (16) - 16 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

pass TDs: 27 (13) - 19 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

sacks: 29 (11) - 21 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

rush yds: 2237 (7) - 25 (suckier) including 10 playoff teams

rush yds: (per carry) 4.7 (8) - 24 (suckier) including 9 playoff teams

Rush TDs: 22 (4) - 28 (suckier) including 10 playoff teams

TOTAL TDs: 49 (8) - 24 (suckier) including 3 playoff teams
LOL. Thanks:D:D
 

PACardsFan

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2020 (Offence)

pass yds: 4102 (16) - 16 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

pass TDs: 27 (13) - 19 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

sacks: 29 (11) - 21 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

rush yds: 2237 (7) - 25 (suckier) including 10 playoff teams

rush yds: (per carry) 4.7 (8) - 24 (suckier) including 9 playoff teams

Rush TDs: 22 (4) - 28 (suckier) including 10 playoff teams

TOTAL TDs: 49 (8) - 24 (suckier) including 3 playoff teams
Keep in mind, that my reference to soft/suck applies to ONLY the interior of our OL. I’m fine with the potential of our tackles. And I do like Gaillard at C.
 

TheCardFan

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2020 (Offence)

pass yds: 4102 (16) - 16 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

pass TDs: 27 (13) - 19 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

sacks: 29 (11) - 21 (suckier) including 6 playoff teams

rush yds: 2237 (7) - 25 (suckier) including 10 playoff teams

rush yds: (per carry) 4.7 (8) - 24 (suckier) including 9 playoff teams

Rush TDs: 22 (4) - 28 (suckier) including 10 playoff teams

TOTAL TDs: 49 (8) - 24 (suckier) including 3 playoff teams

Sounds like an amazing offensive genius is running that team. :)
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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Houston likes to overpay for our guys. Call them and see what we can get for PP.

This is a year we could really use more draft picks. We just have too many holes to fill, and I mean starters. Then we need decent backups on top of all the starters. I can't see us improving this team much without really increasing our cap space a ton by parting with our older players that cost so much.
 
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