I want to believe in Vance, but this is tough to overlook.

[SoonerLou]

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[Finito]

And still the defense was head and shoulders better than last year but we could of been better.

his game plans are just odd sometimes. Sometimes they are super great and other times super laid back

 

[juza76]

And still the defense was head and shoulders better than last year but we could of been better.

his game plans are just odd sometimes. Sometimes they are super great and other times super laid back

With kinsgbury running the offense the team need a very great defensive coach. And Joseph has proven is not, but not just for Cardinals but everywhere he has been
If not it looks like it will be an underperforming season

 

[Krusher kardinals]

And still the defense was head and shoulders better than last year but we could of been better.

his game plans are just odd sometimes. Sometimes they are super great and other times super laid back

Please lets not lose sight that we had a more difficult schedule last year.
Outside of our division ..
We played the afc central (pitt/Baltimore), Cleveland was actually decent, but ended up not finishing strong.
Nfc south which despite the records was a good division.
This year we beat up the nfc least and had the afc east which we beat the jets and bills (great win) but could have been a L.

 

[Finito]

Please lets not lose sight that we had a more difficult schedule last year.
Outside of our division ..
We played the afc central (pitt/Baltimore), Cleveland was actually decent, but ended up not finishing strong.
Nfc south which despite the records was a good division.
This year we beat up the nfc least and had the afc east which we beat the jets and bills (great win) but could have been a L.

you can only play who’s in front of you

 

[Krusher kardinals]

you can only play who’s in front of you

I know this
But they keep claiming that they were much better than last year.
They werent
They added the best wr in the nfl..but that was the only new impactful player

 

[Finito]

I know this
But they keep claiming that they were much better than last year.
They werent
They added the best wr in the nfl..but that was the only new impactful player

Do you think we are really around a 3/4 win team?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

VJ had some decent moments this season, actually made halftime adjustments in several games that helped. He's not the answer though. Too many times we get beat by the same plays over & over. The bootleg play by the Rams for one. He keeps letting backup QB's beat us. A good DC does not let that happen, he figures out a way to make that team pay. Who is the answer for us? I'd love to see Wade Phillips get a shot, he may be over the hill, who knows? I guarantee he would devise a good game plan against a backup QB though. There's also nothing creative with VJ's blitz packages which gets frustrating at times. I'm not real familiar with the up & coming DC candidates though. Maybe someone from the Steelers staff? LB coach maybe? They run an attacking blitzing scheme that would probably be better than what VJ runs.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

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That is really sad to see.

It's joke to make all these new QB's look like all pro and then they fall apart against other teams.

Very frustrating to watch our D these last couple of seasons.

 

[Krusher kardinals]

Do you think we are really around a 3/4 win team?

 

[Krusher kardinals]

Do you think we are really around a 3/4 win team?

We are what our record says we are.
A .500 team

 

[Minski]

That is really sad to see.

It's joke to make all these new QB's look like all pro and then they fall apart against other teams.

Very frustrating to watch our D these last couple of seasons.

The main 3 things that wind me up with VJs defence are:

1) The amount of critical 3rd down conversions the opposition get. Seems like it can be 3rd and forever and they will still pick it up. At one point on Sunday I think I heard commentary say Rams were 9 of 9 for 3rd down conversions.

2) We only have 3 or so players who close down oncoming attackers to make a tackle (Simmons, Jalen & Budda... sometimes Murphy). Again demonstrated against the Rams by Campbell, he stood behind the 1st down marker and waiting until the ball carrier got to him before making a tackle (and Campbell was also driven back a bit giving up plenty for a 1st down).

3) So much cushion in coverage. Enough said.

Edit: I forgot to add his pathetic use of Simmons, which is probably the most frustrating thing.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

The main 3 things that wind me up with VJs defence are:

1) The amount of critical 3rd down conversions the opposition get. Seems like it can be 3rd and forever and they will still pick it up. At one point on Sunday I think I heard commentary say Rams were 9 of 9 for 3rd down conversions.

2) We only have 3 or so players who close down oncoming attackers to make a tackle (Simmons, Jalen & Budda... sometimes Murphy). Again demonstrated against the Rams by Campbell, he stood behind the 1st down marker and waiting until the ball carrier got to him before making a tackle (and Campbell was also driven back a bit giving up plenty for a 1st down).

3) So much cushion in coverage. Enough said.

Sad part is we're gonna be stuck with VJ in 2021 still.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'm not really for or against VJ. I think he's decent. The Cards didn't give up a ton of points and that's the main thing. Plus, he lost a potential DPOY early on in Jones.

Not sure why people make every excuse in the world for KK but constantly bang on Joseph.

 

[DVontel]

I'm not really for or against VJ. I think he's decent. The Cards didn't give up a ton of points and that's the main thing. Plus, he lost a potential DPOY early on in Jones.

Not sure why people make every excuse in the world for KK but constantly bang on Joseph.

Not a soul in here is excusing KK. You can fault both for being bad at their jobs which they’re clearly are.

 

[az jam]

The defense improved over last year and the injuries to key players really hurt. I would like to see all coaches back for another year including both KK and Vance. However, they should all be on the hot seat and it should be playoffs or out. IMO continuity is important at all coaching positions.

 

[GuernseyCard]

VJ had some decent moments this season, actually made halftime adjustments in several games that helped. He's not the answer though. Too many times we get beat by the same plays over & over. The bootleg play by the Rams for one. He keeps letting backup QB's beat us. A good DC does not let that happen, he figures out a way to make that team pay. Who is the answer for us? I'd love to see Wade Phillips get a shot, he may be over the hill, who knows? I guarantee he would devise a good game plan against a backup QB though. There's also nothing creative with VJ's blitz packages which gets frustrating at times. I'm not real familiar with the up & coming DC candidates though. Maybe someone from the Steelers staff? LB coach maybe? They run an attacking blitzing scheme that would probably be better than what VJ runs.

SF with a backup scored 20 pts and the RAMS 9 against our "D". Blame those losses on our offence.

VJ had to contend with the loss of C. Jones and they still generated 48 sacks (4th). He adjusted as best he could to the decimation of his "D" line and other week-to-week unavailabilities. Are there shortcomings? Of course, but there is a year-over-year improvement and the chances of him not being at the helm of the "D" next season are slim and none - IMO.

2020 vs 2019 (Defence)

2020: Yds per game: 353 (13)
2019: Yds per game: 402 (32)
2020: rush: 125 (22)
2019: rush: 120 (23)
2020: pass: 226 (10)
2019: pass: 281 (31)
2020: QBR: 91.5 (15)
2019: QBR: 109.9 (32)
2020: sacks: 48 (4)
2019: sacks: 40 (18)
2020: 3rd down: 39.6 (12)
2019: 3rd down: 46.7 (30)
2020: Pts per game: 22.9 (12)
2019: Pts per game: 27.6 (28)

 

[BritCard]

Apparently we went from 27th in net passing yards allowed per attempt in 2019 to 6th in 2020.

We have our weaknesses but that's a very good indicator of progression. I didn't like the hire, but I think they are heading in the right direction and it would be a mistake now to fire him. I do see any way they will.

 

[BritCard]

SF with a backup scored 20 pts and the RAMS 9 against our "D". Blame those losses on our offence.

VJ had to contend with the loss of C. Jones and they still generated 48 sacks (4th). He adjusted as best he could to the decimation of his "D" line and other week-to-week unavailabilities. Are there shortcomings? Of course, but there is a year-over-year improvement and the chances of him not being at the helm of the "D" next season are slim and none - IMO.

2020 vs 2019

2020: Yds per game: 353 (13)
2019: Yds per game: 402 (32)
2020: rush: 125 (22)
2019: rush: 120 (23)
2020: pass: 226 (10)
2019: pass: 281 (31)
2020: QBR: 91.5 (15)
2019: QBR: 109.9 (32)
2020: sacks: 48 (4)
2019: sacks: 40 (18)
2020: 3rd down: 39.6 (12)
2019: 3rd down: 46.7 (30)
2020: Pts per game: 22.9 (12)
2019: Pts per game: 27.6 (28)

Agreed. Vance has done a decent job this year. His one failure has been not working Simmons in more, although that improved.

It has been the offense that let us down in the back half of the season.

 

[football karma]

Vance runs a bend but dont break defense

the one good thing you can say about it --- when was the last time you saw a QB throw over the top of the defense to burn it? I can think of only one game -- SEA #1 where that happened

but i think by running that, it opens up these giant soft spots at 10-15 yards

so -- on one hand, the D only gave up 3 FGS to the Rams, but they so controlled the ball and field position that the offense had limited chances

same for SF #2 -- with a normal offense, yielding 20 points ought to win -- but not when it runs for 240 yards and keeps the ball all day

 

[Chopper0080]

Vance runs a bend but dont break defense

the one good thing you can say about it --- when was the last time you saw a QB throw over the top of the defense to burn it? I can think of only one game -- SEA #1 where that happened

but i think by running that, it opens up these giant soft spots at 10-15 yards

so -- on one hand, the D only gave up 3 FGS to the Rams, but they so controlled the ball and field position that the offense had limited chances

same for SF #2 -- with a normal offense, yielding 20 points ought to win -- but not when it runs for 240 yards and keeps the ball all day

And this is why Vance will never have a great defense. Great defenses win with pressure. Not just pressure on the passer but pressure to execute because they make the routine plays, difficult. Look at the Seattle LOB defense. They made slants and outs tough. They did not concede third and long plays allowing teams to get 80% of the yards back. They gave you the swing route but then closed so fast you might pick up 2. Vance lets teams get comfortable, gain confidence, and feel less pressure throughout a game.

His defensive style reminds me of Patrick Peterson's play style. Neither play to shut you down, they play to keep you contained and then try to pounce when you make a mistake or force something. They both count on you beating yourself.

 

[DVontel]

And this is why Vance will never have a great defense. Great defenses win with pressure. Not just pressure on the passer but pressure to execute because they make the routine plays, difficult. Look at the Seattle LOB defense. They made slants and outs tough. They did not concede third and long plays allowing teams to get 80% of the yards back. They gave you the swing route but then closed so fast you might pick up 2. Vance lets teams get comfortable, gain confidence, and feel less pressure throughout a game.

His defensive style reminds me of Patrick Peterson's play style. Neither play to shut you down, they play to keep you contained and then try to pounce when you make a mistake or force something. They both count on you beating yourself.

Pretty much describes why Teddy, Tua & Jalen had their best games of the season against us.

 

[GuernseyCard]

And this is why Vance will never have a great defense. Great defenses win with pressure. Not just pressure on the passer but pressure to execute because they make the routine plays, difficult. Look at the Seattle LOB defense. They made slants and outs tough. They did not concede third and long plays allowing teams to get 80% of the yards back. They gave you the swing route but then closed so fast you might pick up 2. Vance lets teams get comfortable, gain confidence, and feel less pressure throughout a game.

His defensive style reminds me of Patrick Peterson's play style. Neither play to shut you down, they play to keep you contained and then try to pounce when you make a mistake or force something. They both count on you beating yourself.

AZ vs Seattle - Defence 2020

AZ: Yds per game: 353 (13)
SE: Yds per game: 380 (22)
AZ: rush: 125 (22)
SE: rush: 96 (5)
AZ: pass: 226 (10)
SE: pass: 285 (31)
AZ: QBR: 91.5 (15)
SE: QBR: 90.2 (11)
AZ: sacks: 48 (4)
SE: sacks: 46 (7)
AZ: 3rd down: 39.6 (12)
SE: 3rd down: 47.1 (27)
AZ: Pts per game: 22.9 (12)
SE: Pts per game: 23.2 (15)

 

[Totally_Red]

The defense improved over last year and the injuries to key players really hurt. I would like to see all coaches back for another year including both KK and Vance. However, they should all be on the hot seat and it should be playoffs or out. IMO continuity is important at all coaching positions.

Agreed. The leash is short next season. With 7 teams in the playoffs, that is the minimum expectation for next season. This season was disappointing but not disastrous. After the 6-3 start, expectations were justifiably raised. The team was competitive, but the penalties, third down defense, inconsistent FG kicking, questionable play calling and game management by the head coach, etcetera were frustrating.

Our coaching staff is the weakest in the division, but you can't or shouldn't change coaches every year or two IMO. That said, a real offensive coordinator must be hired because Kliff is not getting the job done and there is no reason to think he will next season.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Agreed. The leash is short next season. With 7 teams in the playoffs, that is the minimum expectation for next season. This season was disappointing but not disastrous. After the 6-3 start, expectations were justifiably raised. The team was competitive, but the penalties, third down defense, inconsistent FG kicking, questionable play calling and game management by the head coach, etcetera were frustrating.

Our coaching staff is the weakest in the division, but you can't or shouldn't change coaches every year or two IMO. That said, a real offensive coordinator must be hired because Kliff is not getting the job done and there is no reason to think he will next season.

Quite the opposite. The year-over-year improvement and additional experience for both KK and KM give reason to believe in continued growth.

And we have an experienced game planner in support of KK the playcaller:

https://www.azcardinals.com/team/coaches-roster/tom-clements