What Murray Could Learn from Warner

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Harry

Harry

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I doubt Warner would give up his current gig to be a QB coach but he definitely needs a new coach.

I'm not seeing any improvement in key areas of his passing game. In fact I'm fairly confident he's regressed in some areas.
The STL Cards do something that might work here, but keep in mind several coaches have historically preferred to compete even as a coach. The baseball Cards bring back former stairs to spring training to serve as visiting coaches. Something they develop mentor relationships like Gibson & Flaherty. Ozzie Smith and Lou Brock helped the base running. Edmonds improved Bader’s defense. Maybe Warner would welcome a chance to contribute. I agree he’s a pay it forward guy.
 

RON_IN_OC

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I had a wild thought the other day. The Cards need a QB coach whether or not KK thinks so. My idea is radical. They should get Warner. On first view I admit that seems crazy. Warner was one of the least mobile QBs ever. He was a pure pocket passer. So why him? In my mind most of the technique Murray lacks, Warner possessed. Murray doesn’t need running advice. He’s likely the best there’s ever been. He needs to know what to do to be more effective in the pocket. I know Murray is vertically challenged. Keep in mind Warner wasn’t a giant. At 6’2” Warner did have passes knocked down. However, he was still outstanding at pure pocket presence.

The first lesson is reading defenses and audibles. Recognizing blitzes and using hot reads would by itself take Murray’s game to a new level. The coaching staff should be able to provide Murray with key reads to spot whether the coverage is zone or man, but teams have become more sophisticated at disguising defenses. This is where a QB noting little things in pre-snap defensive movement can lead to effective audibles. Warner was brilliant at anticipating blitzes, for example, and dumping the ball off to neutralize them. Throwing to vacated areas can dramatically slow the rush.

Closely related is spotting single coverage. Murray has 2 outstanding receivers at securing what are thought to be 50/50 balls. Oddly one of those receivers was also a Warner receiver. It took some time for Warner to understand when Fitz was “open.” Once he did few teams single covered Fitz. Opposing teams can’t double cover both options.

Then there’s ball placement. Time after time Warner beat defenders by anticipating where to place the ball so his receiver could control the spacing and his his body to ward off defenders. Murray has twice the arm strength Warner had, but Warner knew how to give his receivers the advantage, even on deep throws.

Sliding in the pocket to avoid pressure or get a better throwing lane was a technique Warner mastered, as did Palmer & Wilson. Think about Murray’s technique. He seldom moves in the pocket either by stepping up or moving side to side. This is true pocket presence. I loved watching frustrated rushers simply overrun the QB. This also includes understanding your O-line blockers style to anticipate where they will redirect rushers.

The bottom line is Warner constantly controlled the defense. He literally manipulated them. He neutralized their strategies. Unlike Murray, Warner was not a great athlete. His talent was based on recognition, misdirection and subtle adjustments. Add even a small potion of those skills to Murray’s ability to take over a game with his legs and you have a truly dominant QB. It’s not that Murray cannot succeed without this component, it’s just he can be so much more. I’m sure there are guys besides Warner who could do this, but in my mind he was the best at this. Add in his Cardinal connection and he’s the best choice in my mind. He almost got the Cards all the way to the top. It would be fitting if he helped their current QB take the last step of the journey.
If you follow Kurt on Twitter, he had a good post today, that goes along with what you're saying....that QBs today are reading their receivers and not reading the defense...and it's his biggest pet peeve.

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RON_IN_OC

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If you follow Kurt on Twitter, he had a good post today, that goes along with what you're saying....that QBs today are reading their receivers and not reading the defense...and it's his biggest pet peeve.

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PS ..click on Twitter post and you'll see his full video breakdown shared.

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They should call in Bart Starr, Roger Staubach. Joe Theismann, Jim Plunkett or any other quarterback's name somebody can pull out of their butt. Why in the world do people think that somebody has to be called in for their expertise for every perceived issue is beyond me. Good grief, does everybody live their real lives like that? Kurt Warner, Wade Phillips, who's next ? Maybe he can watch old videos of Vince Lombardi.
 

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I think a guy like Steve Young in a perfect world would be his best mentor but would he want to and I do believe he has a law degree and probably has other interests
 

Russ Smith

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If you follow Kurt on Twitter, he had a good post today, that goes along with what you're saying....that QBs today are reading their receivers and not reading the defense...and it's his biggest pet peeve.

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nice find very cool stuff. the one with Mayfield at the goalline is remarkable to watch after hearing Warner explain it because in the end there are 2 guys wide open, the WR on the left, and Kareem Hunt out of the backfield, but Baker is fixated on his TE in the slot(think it's the TE) going to the corner so by the time he sees the WR wide open he's off balance and throws it over his head. If all you see is the throw you think bad throw bad mechanics but it's really exactly what Warner said he didn't read the defense he made up his mind where he was going and literally that guy running his route created a natural pick that gave the WR aTD if Baker makes the throw, but Baker missed all that waiting for the corner route to open.

Interesting stuff and if you're Cleveland you're more concerned because Baker played MUCH more in college than Kyler did and he's in year 3 in the NFL, he's GOT to be seeing that stuff better by now .
 

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nice find very cool stuff. the one with Mayfield at the goalline is remarkable to watch after hearing Warner explain it because in the end there are 2 guys wide open, the WR on the left, and Kareem Hunt out of the backfield, but Baker is fixated on his TE in the slot(think it's the TE) going to the corner so by the time he sees the WR wide open he's off balance and throws it over his head. If all you see is the throw you think bad throw bad mechanics but it's really exactly what Warner said he didn't read the defense he made up his mind where he was going and literally that guy running his route created a natural pick that gave the WR aTD if Baker makes the throw, but Baker missed all that waiting for the corner route to open.

Interesting stuff and if you're Cleveland you're more concerned because Baker played MUCH more in college than Kyler did and he's in year 3 in the NFL, he's GOT to be seeing that stuff better by now .


Wow I had to google it. Mayfield threw over 1500 passes in college, Kyler just over 500 so 3 times as many attempts. Baker was almost a 4 year starter he played 8 games as a freshman and was close to 300 attempts that year too.

So they played in the same system same coach in College but Baker was MUCH more experienced and has an extra year in the NFL. Baker has improved this year no question but it's pretty enlightening what Warner is talking about, and the first example is Wentz who has played a ton himself and at a very high level. He takes a play where the underneath guy is open for 6 yards, doesn't throw it, then the TE behind him opens wide up for 15 or more, doesn't throw it and finally throws to the underneath guy and the LB tips it away. If you just see the result you think great play by the LB but the whole play is Wentz not reading the LB and missing the first option wide open and then the 2nd option opens wide up too.

NO wonder Kurt was so good
 

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Wow I had to google it. Mayfield threw over 1500 passes in college, Kyler just over 500 so 3 times as many attempts. Baker was almost a 4 year starter he played 8 games as a freshman and was close to 300 attempts that year too.

So they played in the same system same coach in College but Baker was MUCH more experienced and has an extra year in the NFL. Baker has improved this year no question but it's pretty enlightening what Warner is talking about, and the first example is Wentz who has played a ton himself and at a very high level. He takes a play where the underneath guy is open for 6 yards, doesn't throw it, then the TE behind him opens wide up for 15 or more, doesn't throw it and finally throws to the underneath guy and the LB tips it away. If you just see the result you think great play by the LB but the whole play is Wentz not reading the LB and missing the first option wide open and then the 2nd option opens wide up too.

NO wonder Kurt was so good

On the other hand, though, Baker is on his third or fourth OC and didn’t have a real training camp with this staff.
 
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They should call in Bart Starr, Roger Staubach. Joe Theismann, Jim Plunkett or any other quarterback's name somebody can pull out of their butt. Why in the world do people think that somebody has to be called in for their expertise for every perceived issue is beyond me. Good grief, does everybody live their real lives like that? Kurt Warner, Wade Phillips, who's next ? Maybe he can watch old videos of Vince Lombardi.
I would be against calling in dead people. However, Warner has a Cardinal connection and I’m a big believer in organizational legacies. As to your issues, first, there is no QB coach. Second this isn’t one issue, it’s half the job. At 49 years of age, Warner fits the profile of numerous coaches. Some of Vince’s videos still have merit like the one on Lombardi time. I guess using available expertise to attack problems is how I spend my life. You do get points for quoting Charlie Brown.
 
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