What Murray Could Learn from Warner

Harry

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I had a wild thought the other day. The Cards need a QB coach whether or not KK thinks so. My idea is radical. They should get Warner. On first view I admit that seems crazy. Warner was one of the least mobile QBs ever. He was a pure pocket passer. So why him? In my mind most of the technique Murray lacks, Warner possessed. Murray doesn’t need running advice. He’s likely the best there’s ever been. He needs to know what to do to be more effective in the pocket. I know Murray is vertically challenged. Keep in mind Warner wasn’t a giant. At 6’2” Warner did have passes knocked down. However, he was still outstanding at pure pocket presence.

The first lesson is reading defenses and audibles. Recognizing blitzes and using hot reads would by itself take Murray’s game to a new level. The coaching staff should be able to provide Murray with key reads to spot whether the coverage is zone or man, but teams have become more sophisticated at disguising defenses. This is where a QB noting little things in pre-snap defensive movement can lead to effective audibles. Warner was brilliant at anticipating blitzes, for example, and dumping the ball off to neutralize them. Throwing to vacated areas can dramatically slow the rush.

Closely related is spotting single coverage. Murray has 2 outstanding receivers at securing what are thought to be 50/50 balls. Oddly one of those receivers was also a Warner receiver. It took some time for Warner to understand when Fitz was “open.” Once he did few teams single covered Fitz. Opposing teams can’t double cover both options.

Then there’s ball placement. Time after time Warner beat defenders by anticipating where to place the ball so his receiver could control the spacing and his his body to ward off defenders. Murray has twice the arm strength Warner had, but Warner knew how to give his receivers the advantage, even on deep throws.

Sliding in the pocket to avoid pressure or get a better throwing lane was a technique Warner mastered, as did Palmer & Wilson. Think about Murray’s technique. He seldom moves in the pocket either by stepping up or moving side to side. This is true pocket presence. I loved watching frustrated rushers simply overrun the QB. This also includes understanding your O-line blockers style to anticipate where they will redirect rushers.

The bottom line is Warner constantly controlled the defense. He literally manipulated them. He neutralized their strategies. Unlike Murray, Warner was not a great athlete. His talent was based on recognition, misdirection and subtle adjustments. Add even a small potion of those skills to Murray’s ability to take over a game with his legs and you have a truly dominant QB. It’s not that Murray cannot succeed without this component, it’s just he can be so much more. I’m sure there are guys besides Warner who could do this, but in my mind he was the best at this. Add in his Cardinal connection and he’s the best choice in my mind. He almost got the Cards all the way to the top. It would be fitting if he helped their current QB take the last step of the journey.
 

BigRedRage

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I'd be all for it. Murray doesnt need scramble coaching, he needs QB coaching. I think an offseason would have helped but a highly regarded QB or QB coach would make a big difference. Kliff has this QB coach rep but really, he is good at offensive play design, that is his specialty, not coaching up QBs IMO. Warner was the belichick of QBs, taking away your strengths and making you play with your weaknessses.
 

Dr. Jones

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I've been thinking the same things lately. A dominant pocket QB willing to work with Kyler on vertical throws, hot routes, anticipation, and pocket presence, etc. Just that voice in his ear to help him see the finer points that may require some time to build.

Warner works great IMO. Maybe even Carson if he wanted to. My first thought was Andrew Luck though. Not sure why I felt that way really. Warner makes more sense IMO.
 

BigRedRage

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For KK being as humble and willing to adjust as he seems, adding another mentor for Kyle shouldnt be something he is against.
 

jmt

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I don’t think Warner would come here as QB coach either but the idea that KM needs a coach to help him in the pocket is sound.
 

Russ Smith

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I think we'd all love that. Palmers brother Jordan is a QB coach too.

Kyler is very raw he basically started one year in college and had baseball every offseason. It's not surprising he's not polished. That was my comment when we first talked about drafting him, has a long throwing motion, is very raw, and had almost no adversity in college he was on a great offense and picking which wide open NFL prospect WR to throw to. I'm still very happy we picked him the kid is electric, but it's no surprise he's learning to read defenses, adjusting to NFL size and speed etc. If he's this good now scratching the surface, imagine how good he can be when he learns what he's doing.

Again he's got lots of Steve Young in him, but he's MUCH better than Steve was at the same point in careers.
 

BritCard

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I doubt Warner would give up his current gig to be a QB coach but he definitely needs a new coach.

I'm not seeing any improvement in key areas of his passing game. In fact I'm fairly confident he's regressed in some areas.
 

TaylorSwift

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I think we'd all love that. Palmers brother Jordan is a QB coach too.

Kyler is very raw he basically started one year in college and had baseball every offseason. It's not surprising he's not polished. That was my comment when we first talked about drafting him, has a long throwing motion, is very raw, and had almost no adversity in college he was on a great offense and picking which wide open NFL prospect WR to throw to. I'm still very happy we picked him the kid is electric, but it's no surprise he's learning to read defenses, adjusting to NFL size and speed etc. If he's this good now scratching the surface, imagine how good he can be when he learns what he's doing.

Again he's got lots of Steve Young in him, but he's MUCH better than Steve was at the same point in careers.


Young is the dream mentor for precisely this reason.

Really hope those two are able to connect from a football mentorship standpoint, I feel that could help Murrays game blossom.
 

juza76

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I'd be all for it. Murray doesnt need scramble coaching, he needs QB coaching. I think an offseason would have helped but a highly regarded QB or QB coach would make a big difference. Kliff has this QB coach rep but really, he is good at offensive play design, that is his specialty, not coaching up QBs IMO. Warner was the belichick of QBs, taking away your strengths and making you play with your weaknessses.

He had Mahomes under his wing so I think he deserve some credibility as a qb coach
About the offensive play design he still have to show more, cause he came to conservative in clutch moments, being very predictable
 

BigRedRage

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He had Mahomes under his wing so I think he deserve some credibility as a qb coach
About the offensive play design he still have to show more, cause he came to conservative in clutch moments, being very predictable


Mahomes made leap year improvements to everything under andy reid. He was not a finished product coming out of college.
 

TaylorSwift

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He had Mahomes under his wing so I think he deserve some credibility as a qb coach
About the offensive play design he still have to show more, cause he came to conservative in clutch moments, being very predictable

The problem is that Mahomes was very raw coming out of Texas Tech.

Chiefs players actually though he was "trash" his first practice.

https://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-ci...eek-hill-first-think-of-patrick-mahomes-trash


What does that say about Kliff and his qb development capabilities?
 

unseenaz

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they should set him up with Jordan Palmer, or have him come in. he's got a great history with young QBs, typically getting them ready for the draft
 

dreamcastrocks

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BigRedRage

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The problem is that Mahomes was very raw coming out of Texas Tech.

Chiefs players actually though he was "trash" his first practice.

https://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-ci...eek-hill-first-think-of-patrick-mahomes-trash


What does that say about Kliff and his qb development capabilities?


Difference between Superbowls and never winning one

so instead of just quoting Taylor swift songs, I decided to reference the actual topic. Your argument is that Mahomes being raw coming out of college says that kliff is the difference between superbowls and never winning one?

Man. This is groundbreaking analysis here.
 

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