Joe Burrow

GimmedaBall

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We're fans of a brutal game. Joe Burrow was playing great and the future looked bright for both him and his team. He came in with zero preseason games. At the least, this will set him back a year, maybe two.

Alex Smith is playing lights out after a different but also horrendous injury. He should get come-back-player of year---and an example for Joe Burrow. Agree with juza76 on this one.

Drew Brees has multiple broken ribs and a collapsed lung---even after he was injured he was still on the field throwing passes.
 

cardpa

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Sadly, due to the inherent violence of football, you will never be able to completely avoid injuries like this. They have tired to reduce with changes to the rules of the game but it will never be eliminated.
 

GimmedaBall

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Sadly, due to the inherent violence of football, you will never be able to completely avoid injuries like this. They have tired to reduce with changes to the rules of the game but it will never be eliminated.

Make knee braces mandatory for every player. I know the players would revolt and claim it interferes with their movement---but studies have shown players accomodate to wearing the braces in time. If everyone is wearing the brace, it is just another required piece of equipment. It just might extend the careers for a lot of players and protect the big money invested in them.

Hockey players revolted when helmets became mandatory---old timers were allowed to play without. Why anyone would want to be on the ice without a helmet/face shield is a question. Old timer hockey players didn't have any teeth and their face looked like a ragged Chucky doll after it got cut to pieces.
 

Dr. Jones

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yeah kid just tore everything you can possible tear in his knee. He’s out minimum for this season and next.

even if he ever does get back on the field he’ll never be the same.

What tha? From the reports he didn't tear his: PCL, LCL, Medial or Lateral Meniscus, or Patellar tendon.

Sounds about the same as Bridgewater

Nowhere close. Smith, Bridgewater, and Zach Miller all had insanely worse injuries to their knees.
 
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Finito

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The back and forth on this thread is hilarious. Good luck to Burrow and finito.

oh I don’t need luck. There’s a certain kinda person that takes a statement on a message board and feels the need to be right. It’s what’s led to the whole division in our country.

I’m right, your wrong, everything is black and white no nuance just right or wrong.
 

cardsfanmd

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oh I don’t need luck. There’s a certain kinda person that takes a statement on a message board and feels the need to be right. It’s what’s led to the whole division in our country.

I’m right, your wrong, everything is black and white no nuance just right or wrong.
I disagree. The victim mentality overrunning this country with the idea that someone’s level of outrage is the barometer of justification for their opinions and/or actions is what’s lead the charge for the division in this country. That and plain old stupidity.
 
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Finito

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I disagree. The victim mentality overrunning this country with the idea that someone’s level of outrage is the barometer of justification for their opinions and/or actions is what’s lead the charge for the division in this country. That and plain old stupidity.

like I said a it’s a certain type of person.

no it’s pretty much a fact the internet is feeding you. It’s the algorithm. People getting caught in echo chambers feeding the “I’m right your wrong” mentality. It’s taken debate and conversation out of the culture and turned it into us vs them.

Like I said it’s a certain type of person that feeds into it.
 

cardsfanmd

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like I said a it’s a certain type of person.

no it’s pretty much a fact the internet is feeding you. It’s the algorithm. People getting caught in echo chambers feeding the “I’m right your wrong” mentality. It’s taken debate and conversation out of the culture and turned it into us vs them.

Like I said it’s a certain type of person that feeds into it.
You were the one who said people were saying he was done. Other posters simply asked who...
 

Red on White

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With some of these multi-faceted injuries they can't do all the required surgeries at once.

For example he may need to have the medial ligament surgery / bone fragment clean up done first then, once that all heals, he can have the ACL reconstruction.

Obviously adds to the timeline but if they consider 2021 as a write off it actually gives him 20 months of recovery and rehabilitation time.
 

Russ Smith

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Make knee braces mandatory for every player. I know the players would revolt and claim it interferes with their movement---but studies have shown players accomodate to wearing the braces in time. If everyone is wearing the brace, it is just another required piece of equipment. It just might extend the careers for a lot of players and protect the big money invested in them.

Hockey players revolted when helmets became mandatory---old timers were allowed to play without. Why anyone would want to be on the ice without a helmet/face shield is a question. Old timer hockey players didn't have any teeth and their face looked like a ragged Chucky doll after it got cut to pieces.


I had that discussion with both my knee surgeon and my PT therapist after I tore my patellar tendon in 2017 and had surgery. Not long after I did mine the NBA player Andre Roberson did his. I asked them if they felt more athletes should wear knee braces and they both said there's almost no evidence it helps. There's some anecdotal evidence that those braces you see some colleges put on OL's to protect their knees reduce the NUMBER of MCL injuries, but not the severity. So less minor strains but if you get hit the wrong way you're still going to tear your MCL with the brace. They do almost nothing for ACL.

I was quite surprised at how anti brace both were, not just before the injury, but especially after where they think at a certain point braces prevent athletes from fully getting back their strength.

I tend to agree with you it just seems intuitive that the braces would help but both of them insisted there's very little evidence it actually works.
 

Red on White

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I had that discussion with both my knee surgeon and my PT therapist after I tore my patellar tendon in 2017 and had surgery. Not long after I did mine the NBA player Andre Roberson did his. I asked them if they felt more athletes should wear knee braces and they both said there's almost no evidence it helps. There's some anecdotal evidence that those braces you see some colleges put on OL's to protect their knees reduce the NUMBER of MCL injuries, but not the severity. So less minor strains but if you get hit the wrong way you're still going to tear your MCL with the brace. They do almost nothing for ACL.

I was quite surprised at how anti brace both were, not just before the injury, but especially after where they think at a certain point braces prevent athletes from fully getting back their strength.

I tend to agree with you it just seems intuitive that the braces would help but both of them insisted there's very little evidence it actually works.
Have been told the same

Goes for other injuries too. Strapping shoulders etc. Serves to remind the athlete that they are carrying something and to take some care. Also to give them a bit of confidence.
 

daves

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yeah kid just tore everything you can possible tear in his knee. He’s out minimum for this season and next.

even if he ever does get back on the field he’ll never be the same.

What tha? From the reports he didn't tear his: PCL, LCL, Medial or Lateral Meniscus, or Patellar tendon.

Yeah, WHAT?! Here are some excerpts from an article in the Athletic, in which the author spoke to Dr. Riley Williams, medical director and head team orthopedic surgeon for the Brooklyn Nets, and Dr. Timothy Gibson, medical director and orthopedic surgeon at MemorialCare Orange Coast Medical Center in California.

“Nine months I would expect him to be good barring any complication of any sort,” Dr. Gibson said.

The primary variable that could cause a longer timeline would be potential cartilage damage in the knee, but that’s not an element that has been reported anywhere or that I’ve heard.

Dr. Williams said cartilage damage “doesn’t typically happen, but could happen in an injury like this. MCL, meniscus repair, things of that nature, whether you fix them or not wouldn’t typically change the timeline … Most elite level athletes, six months until you are cleared for full training. Most of those guys would return to full play somewhere in the nine-month to 12-month range, that’s pretty much accepted.”

When news broke that the ACL and MCL were torn, with even damage to the meniscus and other ligaments in the knee, the biggest question came from the addition of the MCL tear to the expected ACL issue and what that means for severity. It sounds like a setback. Both stated that’s not the case.

“Typically, it doesn’t make that much additional difference,” Gibson said. “Most MCL injuries that are mild you can actually leave alone and they will heal by themselves without even addressing it. If it is grade one or two, a mild MCL, it has the ability to scar down because it is an extra-articular ligament, it’s not inside the joint. So it will actually scar down and tighten up. But if it’s more severe and if as a pro athlete they might be more aggressive, if it’s more severe they would just repair it at the same time and it should really not affect his rehab time, overall prognosis or anything at all. It’s really not that big of a deal even if he needs it repaired.”

Williams stated the combination of ACL/MCL actually happens around one-third of the ACL cases he sees and is fairly common. It’s not an alarming development, as much as it sounded like one at first.

[discussion of the optimal length of time to wait before operating]

There are a number of different quarterbacks and others that can be held up for a template when looking for comparisons to Burrow’s injury.

The most obvious happened at Paul Brown Stadium nearly 15 years ago. Carson Palmer tore his ACL and MCL with a dislocated kneecap and cartilage damage in January of 2006.

He returned the next preseason. In fact, in 2006, he threw for over 4,000 yards, went to the Pro Bowl and enjoyed his highest yards per attempt season while in Cincinnati and third-most in his career.

Looking at more recent examples at quarterback, Deshaun Watson tore his ACL in November of his stellar rookie season and was part of the Texans’ May OTAs the next year and has missed one game since.

[....]

Carson Wentz tore his ACL and LCL in December of 2017 and was held out of the first two games of the 2018 season as Philadelphia was conservative while relying on Super Bowl MVP Nick Foles to buy them time.

Tearing the LCL is actually worse than if you also tore the MCL, according to Gibson.

Other quarterbacks to recover from ACL injuries during their career include, but are not limited to, Tom Brady, Sam Bradford (twice), Robert Griffin III and Teddy Bridgewater.

Bridgewater’s would be widely viewed as one of the worst in NFL history and while the recovery took a couple of years, he’s returned to play fantastic football the last couple of seasons.

There is zero worry about the long-term viability of Burrow judging by this diagnosis, according to the doctors, and this isn’t in the same vicinity of the Bridgewater disaster.

[....]

All of this returns back to the original point. All expectations are for Burrow to play in 2021. Will he miss a couple of games at the beginning? Potentially, it’s too early to pinpoint a more specific timeline. But given what we know of the diagnosis, medical opinion and precedent, it’s possible he could play all 16 games in 2021.

...dave
 

JeffGollin

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Anyone knowledgable about knees.

If the NFL were to require QB (or anyone else) to wear knee braces, would this cut down on ACL or MCL injuries? What would be the impact on speed and/or mobility?

There must be ways to cut down on this and other career jeopardizing injuries - to do nothing would be tragic
 

Red on White

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Anyone knowledgable about knees.

If the NFL were to require QB (or anyone else) to wear knee braces, would this cut down on ACL or MCL injuries? What would be the impact on speed and/or mobility?

There must be ways to cut down on this and other career jeopardizing injuries - to do nothing would be tragic
I'm not knowledgeable about knees sorry but being new to the sport of NFL one thing that has surprised me is how accepted it is to take a players legs out to knock them off balance / make a tackle.

Contact to the knee and below is specifically outlawed in Australian Rules football due to these types of injuries (knees, ankles, broken legs). There were some fairly graphic injuries in the past and 'sliding in' to make a tackle or win the ball was becoming more prevalent. They re-wrote the laws of the game to get rid of it.

With NFL it is just part of the game. Has taken some getting used to! I wince often during a game but to be fair there haven't actually been many injuries from this type of contact since I've been watching (3rd season). I assumed there would be.
 
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Finito

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Yeah, WHAT?! Here are some excerpts from an article in the Athletic, in which the author spoke to Dr. Riley Williams, medical director and head team orthopedic surgeon for the Brooklyn Nets, and Dr. Timothy Gibson, medical director and orthopedic surgeon at MemorialCare Orange Coast Medical Center in California.



...dave


When news broke that the ACL and MCL were torn, with even damage to the meniscus and other ligaments in the knee, the biggest question came from the addition of the MCL tear to the expected ACL issue and what that means for severity. It sounds like a setback. Both stated that’s not the case.
 

Jetstream Green

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God bless Joe Burrow and I hope he recovers but I am a Cardinal fan and will not spend waking hours for a guy not named Kyler Murray because that's actually normal behavior for a fan of a team which this does not concern... geez, I guess people just like to argue now lol
 

AZfaninMN

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Anyone knowledgable about knees.

If the NFL were to require QB (or anyone else) to wear knee braces, would this cut down on ACL or MCL injuries? What would be the impact on speed and/or mobility?

There must be ways to cut down on this and other career jeopardizing injuries - to do nothing would be tragic

I’m no expert, but I’ve had my fair share of injuries in sports and have some knowledge based on what doctors have told me over the years.

The problem with braces, on any part of their body, is it protects one part of the body, but puts more stress on another related part of the body. Torn ligaments, unless rolled on, are a result of over use. That’s why we see a lot of non-contact injuries where the ligament has been worn down over years of constant use. Unless they’re training with the same brace it won’t make a difference to wear it just for a game. The reason why QBs, OL, and some others is to help stabilize the knee when getting rolled up on.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2474821/
Conclusions
Based on a Strength of Recommendation Taxonomy30 level of evidence of 2 with a grade of B, we cannot conclusively advocate or discourage the use of prophylactic knee braces in preventing knee ligament injuries in collegiate football players. Better-quality randomized controlled trials will allow us to accurately determine whether prophylactic knee bracing in collegiate football players is efficacious or harmful.

This study was done 14 years ago, but it goes with my understanding of the braces. Players have mentioned not liking the brace while playing because it was too bulky and slowing them down. Others have stated it puts their mind at ease knowing they have the added protection. Hell, 7 years ago the NFL had to put a rule in to force the players to wear thigh pads again.
 

WisconsinCard

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I’m no expert, but I’ve had my fair share of injuries in sports and have some knowledge based on what doctors have told me over the years.

QUOTE]


Understatement, dude you been in every hospital in southern wisconsin and others as well.

That's because you have no self-preservation mode built into you body. Crazy man when wearing helmet....
 
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