Rate the 2020 Offseason

[1Sun]

Agreed. I bought into him because Tyson and the other players all spoke out for him as a coach. I genuinely liked what he had to say with one big exception. I've never seen anyone name drop constantly that ever actually amounted to anything. As I said at the time, it was my only concern about him. But the Front Office had a better view of him and should have known that, nice guy or not, tough life story or not, he was all talk.

Heck, as you demonstrate here, and as per my experience, it was pretty darn obvious to everyone EXCEPT the Front Office that Watson was all talk.

Incidentally, that's why I have the Will Ferrell/Jackie Moon "Everybody Love Everybody" meme as part of my profile. Earl Watson as a coach was the real life embodiment of Jackie Moon.

 

[Folster]

I remember that too but I don't recall very many of those rumors about us coming true once Ryan took over. I don't know if it was McD or Babby that talked Sarver into no longer leaking everything to Gambo but either way, that hole was mostly plugged and most of what we heard was probably generated by agents or other franchises. But yeah, drafting Frank then would have really set us back.

I don't think the leak was plugged until recently. It may be as simple as a falling out with Gambo and Sarver. I'd like to think that Sarver has just distanced himself from the personnel decisions so he is not able to leak to Gambo like he has in the past. It's been well established that Gambo gets his Suns info from Sarver in the past.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Heck, as you demonstrate here, and as per my experience, it was pretty darn obvious to everyone EXCEPT the Front Office that Watson was all talk.

I don't agree. Like I said, the players in their exit interviews sang his praises and IMO we learned very little from his actual coaching. That was an incredibly bad roster and despite losing Bledsoe and other to injury, we looked much like the same team that Hornacek coached.

What would Pop, Phil or Riley have done with a rookie Booker and a scrabbled together roster of Archie Goodwin, PJ, Alex Len, Mizra Teletovic, Sonny Weems, Jon Leuer, Jordan McRae, Kris Humphries, Ronnie Price, Phil Pressey, John Jenkins, Orlando Johnson, Markieff Morris, Chase Budinger, Alan Williams?

Neither Suns coach had a chance that season. We had 23 different players on the roster, 14 different players started for us, only Tucker started more than 60 games, 12 of those players were gone before the start of the next season and most of them were soon to be out of the league. I really don't know how you could tell the difference between the greatest head coach of all time and the worst head coach of all time given just 33 games and that roster.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think the leak was plugged until recently. It may be as simple as a falling out with Gambo and Sarver. I'd like to think that Sarver has just distanced himself from the personnel decisions so he is not able to leak to Gambo like he has in the past. It's been well established that Gambo gets his Suns info from Sarver in the past.

Well, we talked about the change here several years ago, the leak was definitely at least partially plugged at/near the start of the Ryan tenure. Almost all of the rumors we heard after that turned out to be false except for a last minute or two Gambo comment about who we might take in the draft, and he was often wrong there too. I do think we're a little more leak-proof under Jones but the big chance came 7 or 8 years ago IMO.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Not sure where BC is right now, but he was complaining about players not being able to draw fouls. I had not realized this, but for the 19-20 season, the Suns were 3rd in the league at drawing fouls.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Well, we talked about the change here several years ago, the leak was definitely at least partially plugged at/near the start of the Ryan tenure. Almost all of the rumors we heard after that turned out to be false except for a last minute or two Gambo comment about who we might take in the draft, and he was often wrong there too. I do think we're a little more leak-proof under Jones but the big chance came 7 or 8 years ago IMO.

I think Sarver distanced himself from Gambo. Gambo started doing a lot of his childish stuff like the limo driver pictures. its just not a good look for an owner to be buds with a guy like that.

 

[Yuma]

I think Sarver distanced himself from Gambo. Gambo started doing a lot of his childish stuff like the limo driver pictures. its just not a good look for an owner to be buds with a guy like that.

I think you are right. He has not really had a good scoop in about a year I think.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not sure where BC is right now, but he was complaining about players not being able to draw fouls. I had not realized this, but for the 19-20 season, the Suns were 3rd in the league at drawing fouls.

It’s interesting because I don’t recall seeing great disparities in FTAs this year on a game-by-game basis like I was accustomed to seeing in previous years. So that supports the ranking. And that’s with Ayton playing like a pussycat. If he was assertive we would likely lead the league. I’m sure we will have lost a lot of FTAs with oubre’s departure.

 

[1Sun]

I don't agree. Like I said, the players in their exit interviews sang his praises and IMO we learned very little from his actual coaching. That was an incredibly bad roster and despite losing Bledsoe and other to injury, we looked much like the same team that Hornacek coached.

What would Pop, Phil or Riley have done with a rookie Booker and a scrabbled together roster of Archie Goodwin, PJ, Alex Len, Mizra Teletovic, Sonny Weems, Jon Leuer, Jordan McRae, Kris Humphries, Ronnie Price, Phil Pressey, John Jenkins, Orlando Johnson, Markieff Morris, Chase Budinger, Alan Williams?

Neither Suns coach had a chance that season. We had 23 different players on the roster, 14 different players started for us, only Tucker started more than 60 games, 12 of those players were gone before the start of the next season and most of them were soon to be out of the league. I really don't know how you could tell the difference between the greatest head coach of all time and the worst head coach of all time given just 33 games and that roster.

Easy. Every single interview Watson gave, where every word out of his mouth was cliche or touchy feely BS and there was not a shred of intelligence, leadership or competence evident. It was all Kumbayah without any sign of a plan or strategy for improvement, development or competition. Yes the players loved him...because they could do whatever they wanted and not be held accountable.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Easy. Every single interview Watson gave, where every word out of his mouth was cliche or touchy feely BS and there was not a shred of intelligence, leadership or competence evident. It was all Kumbayah without any sign of a plan or strategy for improvement, development or competition. Yes the players loved him...because they could do whatever they wanted and not be held accountable.

You're sidestepping my point. But I agree (minus the intelligence part), the interviews he gave were concerning. But he didn't go all Kumbaya IMO until after he'd been named head coach. I'll end my point with this; we had reason to have doubts but Ryan should have known better with the information he had.

 

[1Sun]

I'll end my point with this; we had reason to have doubts but Ryan should have known better with the information he had.

Very much agreed there.

 

[GatorAZ]

I remember reports that the Suns were high on Kaminsky in the 2015 draft and were trying to trade up to get him. Michael Jordan saved us and we had to settle for Devin Booker. Could you imagine had we not gotten Booker?

It was Boston that year. They were willing to give up a **** ton of picks for Kaminsky and Charlotte wouldn’t budge. I can’t imagine McD taking an older prospect with limited physical upside.

 

[Folster]

It was Boston that year. They were willing to give up a **** ton of picks for Kaminsky and Charlotte wouldn’t budge. I can’t imagine McD taking an older prospect with limited physical upside.

Boston was after Justise Winslow if I recall correctly.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

I don't agree. Like I said, the players in their exit interviews sang his praises and IMO we learned very little from his actual coaching. That was an incredibly bad roster and despite losing Bledsoe and other to injury, we looked much like the same team that Hornacek coached.

What would Pop, Phil or Riley have done with a rookie Booker and a scrabbled together roster of Archie Goodwin, PJ, Alex Len, Mizra Teletovic, Sonny Weems, Jon Leuer, Jordan McRae, Kris Humphries, Ronnie Price, Phil Pressey, John Jenkins, Orlando Johnson, Markieff Morris, Chase Budinger, Alan Williams?

Neither Suns coach had a chance that season. We had 23 different players on the roster, 14 different players started for us, only Tucker started more than 60 games, 12 of those players were gone before the start of the next season and most of them were soon to be out of the league. I really don't know how you could tell the difference between the greatest head coach of all time and the worst head coach of all time given just 33 games and that roster.

Watson was the players’ friend.

Never seen a team quit like his did in that Portland game. Clippers beat his Suns by 40+ too I think.

 

[GatorAZ]

Boston was after Justise Winslow if I recall correctly.

Yes you’re right. Boston tried to trade for Winslow with Charlotte but they wanted Kaminsky.

 

[JCSunsfan]

OK. So the timeline. James Jones turns

Trevor Ariza, the 2019 6th pick, a 2021 first-round pick, TJ Warren, and a second-round pick (the last two traded to create the room to sign Rubio).

into

Chris Paul, Cam Johnson, and Nader.

Is that about right?

 

[Cheesebeef]

OK. So the timeline. James Jones turns

Trevor Ariza, the 2019 6th pick, a 2021 first-round pick, TJ Warren, and a second-round pick (the last two traded to create the room to sign Rubio).

into

Chris Paul, Cam Johnson, and Nader.

Is that about right?

also Dario Saric

 

[JCSunsfan]

also Dario Saric

Yep. Forgot that.

 

[RockinDaMike]

I think it’s an A. I love the flexibility and depth at the 4. Cam, Jae, Jalen and Dario can all be contributors there and you can adjust that nightly.

I’m good with having Oubre traded, this gives Bridges the keys to lead the team in defense.

There’s a lot for Monty to work with on lineups. I honestly feel any given week 12 guys will get minutes. I don’t think I ever felt that way.


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[JCSunsfan]

I think it’s an A. I love the flexibility and depth at the 4. Cam, Jae, Jalen and Dario can all be contributors there and you can adjust that nightly.

I’m good with having Oubre traded, this gives Bridges the keys to lead the team in defense.

There’s a lot for Monty to work with on lineups. I honestly feel any given week 12 guys will get minutes. I don’t think I ever felt that way.


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The versatility is the key. I am listing the best players who can play those positions on the roster. For instance, Paul is the second-best SG on the roster (if he was playing SG) even though he is the best PG. The PF position is debatable. Plus defenders (as in better than average) are in bold.

PG--Paul, Booker, Payne, Carter, Galloway
SG--Booker, Paul, Moore, Galloway, Carter
SF--Bridges, Crowder, Johnson, Nader
PF--Crowder, Johnson, Saric, Ayton, Smith (I will give Smith credit for D for now)
C--Ayton, Saric, Smith, Crowder, Jones

Jones can have Booker or Paul and the floor at all times, if he wants. He can go big or small. He can always have great defenders on the floor.