K1s flaw and lay off kSquared

Krangodnzr

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What’s funny is that the narrative is Kliff sucks if Murray doesn’t complete that last pass.

Kliff is elite regardless.

I do think he needs to sneak (w/Murray or Streveler) on these 3rd/4th and 1s tho. Wouldn’t change anything else in terms of play-calling. He also should try to preserve more time at the end of halfs when the other team has the ball and is in scoring range already.

The Cardinals have had some good call players over the past ten years or so, but Kliff is better than them all.

It's easy to second guess a coach when it doesn't work out. Case in point at the end of the game when the Cardinals called all those passes. Kliff was going to go for the jugular! He was no going to be conservative and was going to try and increase the lead to 10. If it had worked, we would have talked about how great it was that Kliff went after the Bills, but today it was being second guessed by the radio guys.
 

Harry

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Last season they scored 30 in one game. I’d credit much of the improvement to Hop, not the play design or play calling. Certainly Murray has improved his play and that has added points as well. I think KK has helped with that growth though he has not accomplished as much as I’d hoped to see. No doubt Murray is a rising star, I’m not as certain of KK.
 

AZCrazy

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25 games ago we were 32nd in the NFL in offense for the year.

Kliffy Sukky isn't a narrative that's going to stick. 1st in the NFL right now.

Can he improve? Who can't? That shouldn't be the question though.
 

DVontel

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Last season they scored 30 in one game. I’d credit much of the improvement to Hop, not the play design or play calling. Certainly Murray has improved his play and that has added points as well. I think KK has helped with that growth though he has not accomplished as much as I’d hoped to see. No doubt Murray is a rising star, I’m not as certain of KK.
......okay.
 

Yuma

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Geez from his first game last year to now, he has improved SO much! He rarely makes mistakes. Will he tone down the overthrows and underthrows. I would bet so just based on how much he HAS progressed so far in such few games!!!
 

WhyAlwaysMe

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The Cardinals have had some good call players over the past ten years or so, but Kliff is better than them all.

It's easy to second guess a coach when it doesn't work out. Case in point at the end of the game when the Cardinals called all those passes. Kliff was going to go for the jugular! He was no going to be conservative and was going to try and increase the lead to 10. If it had worked, we would have talked about how great it was that Kliff went after the Bills, but today it was being second guessed by the radio guys.

It’s also humorous to me when a play doesn’t work out and everyone gets mad at Kliff. Do people here realize that sometimes the defense makes a great and/or lucky call, and/or a NFL defense has a guy or guys that make outstanding plays.

Nope, it must have been Kliff failing!
 

HomerPimpson

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I already think Murray and Kingsbury are elite in the NFL. I know this board is filled with superstition and jinxes but #s don't lie. Both of them make mistakes, obviously. We leave points on the board and commit too many penalties.

Kingsbury has made some mistakes, particularly with game management, but that isn't the same as playcalling. His play calling has been outstanding imo. He threw tons of WR screens earlier in the year, stretching the field in a way that opened up other stuff (deep routes, slants, and delayed runs up the middle), then he goes deep, mixing in slants, option runs, play action. He runs all these off the same formation, and that's just ONE formation. He goes for it on 4th down in insane field position. He runs with a minute left on the clock against seattle to tie and then passes this week against the Bills to try and seal the game (didn't work obviously and so we got the Hail Mary). Point is, these opposing teams have no clue what's coming. No clue.

Lamar Jackson just this weekend said the defense was calling out their plays. That will never happen here.

As for leading Larry Fitzgerald, which apparently started this, he protected Larry, who would have been destroyed if Murray didn't throw back shoulder. Larry would have been lit up.

Our offense isn't a problem nor is Kyler or Kingsbury. We're a flawed team but that's not what's holding us back.
 

Cardiac

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I already think Murray and Kingsbury are elite in the NFL. I know this board is filled with superstition and jinxes but #s don't lie. Both of them make mistakes, obviously. We leave points on the board and commit too many penalties.

Kingsbury has made some mistakes, particularly with game management, but that isn't the same as playcalling. His play calling has been outstanding imo. He threw tons of WR screens earlier in the year, stretching the field in a way that opened up other stuff (deep routes, slants, and delayed runs up the middle), then he goes deep, mixing in slants, option runs, play action. He runs all these off the same formation, and that's just ONE formation. He goes for it on 4th down in insane field position. He runs with a minute left on the clock against seattle to tie and then passes this week against the Bills to try and seal the game (didn't work obviously and so we got the Hail Mary). Point is, these opposing teams have no clue what's coming. No clue.

Lamar Jackson just this weekend said the defense was calling out their plays. That will never happen here.

As for leading Larry Fitzgerald, which apparently started this, he protected Larry, who would have been destroyed if Murray didn't throw back shoulder. Larry would have been lit up.

Our offense isn't a problem nor is Kyler or Kingsbury. We're a flawed team but that's not what's holding us back.

A lot of great points but the pass to Fitz was just bad and not a protection thing.
 

Krangodnzr

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Just remember, when good plays happen, it’s not because of Kliff.


When bad plays happen, it’s because of Kliff.

Kliff is better than Arians was. Arians ran the same damn system and didn't change it until the Cardinals had four or five bad games.

Like I said it's easy to question a play when it doesn't work, but this team has been pretty damn efficient in the redzone. Hopkins has helped, but the playcalling and using Murray as a runner more has been even bigger.

I don't get what @Harry is seeing that I'm not. I see a coach who isn't that great at pressure situations but is really good most of the time.
 

SoonerLou

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Last season they scored 30 in one game. I’d credit much of the improvement to Hop, not the play design or play calling. Certainly Murray has improved his play and that has added points as well. I think KK has helped with that growth though he has not accomplished as much as I’d hoped to see. No doubt Murray is a rising star, I’m not as certain of KK.
Trent Dilfer said we're an ok team with 2 incredible playmakers on offense.


He also credited Kliff for being willing to adjust and not go full air raid.

I cant remember who said it, but if Kliff took the Jets job they might have already fired him by now. Then again maybe Kyler is stuck on the bench for the Raiders.

Sometimes its two things coming together at the right time. Both doing well (one better than the other imo...) with the chance to get better.
 

HairZach

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Idk about the Jets firing Kliff if he had gone there, since I think the Jets would have a few wins if he had. Their defense isn't bad but their offense is fundamentally broken and that is on Gase's scheme and playcalling. We saw when we played them that they always run the exact same play on 3rd and short and doing things like throwing possessions by running a toss dive for 2 yards on 2nd and 23. Also Gase runs practices in a way that he himself describes as "Not recommended by sports science" and it causes injuries to pile up in practice. I think there are at least a dozen college coaches with losing records that could run a team better than Gase.

When Wilks was here every thought the Cardinals were completely devoid of talent. 2 years of Kliff & Co. and all a sudden our trash players are balling out and making plays. Something similar will happen to the Jets if they make a good hire like we did. If Kliff was as bad as some people think we would not look as good as we do right now. It wouldn't be possible, not at this level.

Kliff does make mistakes and its the nature of fans to be extremely angry when you're watching your football team lose. I don't mind the game thread/postgame salt. But wanting this staff fired doesn't make sense to me. NFL games are almost always close, having a team "firing on all cylinders" and blowing people out is extremely rare and them not doing so doesn't mean Kliff sucks. The other team has ball players too.

It seems like people expect our offense to be like the 18' Chiefs, scoring 40+ points in 5 games. Which is still possible I guess.
 
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Chopper0080

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Just remember, when good plays happen, it’s not because of Kliff.


When bad plays happen, it’s because of Kliff.
Probably what frustrates me the most. Process over result should be the measure. It's like when Murray throws the slant right into a DE or LB arms. As he develops he should learn to pump and then hit the WR in the next window if the DE or LB is in the lane. A good play call which can be defeated by a QB working too fast.
 

New Mexico

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Both Murray and Kingsbury are in there 2nd years.

calm down to expect them to be finished products is crazy

Agree. Too many posters on this board unwilling to give these guys time to grow, especially with regard to KK. Every week I read about how terrible he is even though we have one of the most prolific offenses in the game. He's been very good. Not perfect, and there's definitely room for improvement, but we're damn lucky to have KK, and he's only going to get better. For the first time in franchise history we've scored 30 or more points in five straight games, and we're atop arguably the best division in football. There's two reasons for that: KM and KK, so stop complaining so much.
 

New Mexico

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I already think Murray and Kingsbury are elite in the NFL. I know this board is filled with superstition and jinxes but #s don't lie. Both of them make mistakes, obviously. We leave points on the board and commit too many penalties.

Kingsbury has made some mistakes, particularly with game management, but that isn't the same as playcalling. His play calling has been outstanding imo. He threw tons of WR screens earlier in the year, stretching the field in a way that opened up other stuff (deep routes, slants, and delayed runs up the middle), then he goes deep, mixing in slants, option runs, play action. He runs all these off the same formation, and that's just ONE formation. He goes for it on 4th down in insane field position. He runs with a minute left on the clock against seattle to tie and then passes this week against the Bills to try and seal the game (didn't work obviously and so we got the Hail Mary). Point is, these opposing teams have no clue what's coming. No clue.

Lamar Jackson just this weekend said the defense was calling out their plays. That will never happen here.

As for leading Larry Fitzgerald, which apparently started this, he protected Larry, who would have been destroyed if Murray didn't throw back shoulder. Larry would have been lit up.

Our offense isn't a problem nor is Kyler or Kingsbury. We're a flawed team but that's not what's holding us back.

I'm not sure this kind of rational thinking is permitted on this board.
 

SoonerLou

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Idk about the Jets firing Kliff if he had gone there, since I think the Jets would have a few wins if he had. Their defense isn't bad but their offense is fundamentally broken and that is on Gase's scheme and playcalling. We saw when we played them that they always run the exact same play on 3rd and short and doing things like throwing possessions by running a toss dive for 2 yards on 2nd and 23. Also Gase runs practices in a way that he himself describes as "Not recommended by sports science" and it causes injuries to pile up in practice. I think there are at least a dozen college coaches with losing records that could run a team better than Gase.

When Wilks was here every thought the Cardinals were completely devoid of talent. 2 years of Kliff & Co. and all a sudden our trash players are balling out and making plays. Something similar will happen to the Jets if they make a good hire like we did. If Kliff was as bad as some people think we would not look as good as we do right now. It wouldn't be possible, not at this level.

Kliff does make mistakes and its the nature of fans to be extremely angry when you're watching your football team lose. I don't mind the game thread/postgame salt. But wanting this staff fired doesn't make sense to me. NFL games are almost always close, having a team "firing on all cylinders" and blowing people out is extremely rare and them not doing so doesn't mean Kliff sucks. The other team has ball players too.

It seems like people expect our offense to be like the 18' Chiefs, scoring 40+ points in 5 games. Which is still possible I guess.
Jets win zero games with Kliff with that roster. They fire him because at least Gase had some previous success in the NFL. Kliff not winning in college would make them cut bait easier.

You could argue having Kyler is the best thing to happen to Kliff because as Trent Dilfer said it forces Kliff to scrap some air raid principles and focus on the run.


As I've said its a case of one needing the other and vice versa.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Kingsbury has been calling a pretty good game offensively but his decision making in crucial situations and game management is awful. He almost cost the Cards another game.

Despite that, he has the Cards in 1st place. So, it’s hard to complain.
 

GatorAZ

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It’s also humorous to me when a play doesn’t work out and everyone gets mad at Kliff. Do people here realize that sometimes the defense makes a great and/or lucky call, and/or a NFL defense has a guy or guys that make outstanding plays.

Nope, it must have been Kliff failing!

I don’t get that vibe. Being a great offense doesn’t mean everyone should be devoid of criticism. Kliff and Kyler have a lot of room to grow which is the most exciting thing about the pairing.
 
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