A Failed Experiment?

Harry

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The 2019 Cards decided on a bold plan to revitalize the team. They would hire a losing college coach who had developed an offense that put a bunch of points on the board. They believed Kansas City was the wave of the future and they wanted to ride that wave. Now it’s looking like the move was as misdirected as it was bold.

Most teams would have tried to hire Kingsbury as an offensive coordinator, but the Cards pushed all their chips to the center of the table. The Cards gave him an incredible amount of support. The took his dream QB with the first choice in the draft despite having traded up to draft a QB the previous year. They then traded away that QB at a loss. The Cards also signed a DC with head coaching experience to ease Kingsbury’s transition.

Things started to fall apart fast on defense. The DC struggled is an understatement. I joined others in arguing he deserved a chance this year with a better set of players. I was wrong. His unit lacks discipline and lacks effective technique design, e.g. blitzes. They do not play aggressively, e.g. 1 interception YTD and they simply too often make wrong, disorganized defensive calls, e.g. 10 men on the field yielding a TD . This is an ineffective defense. If Joseph has helped ease the HC transition it might have been better to select someone who’d succeeded in the HC role. Frankly his failure to develop a role for Simmons would be grounds enough to relieve him of his job. I’m okay with doing it now.

Some of my concerns are purely subjective. Some of you may think it odd but I fault Kingsbury’s sideline presence here. It often seems unemotional and detached. He doesn’t have to be Hank Stram or Pete Carroll. It may be the absence of fans makes his ultra calm seem more concerning. However, I think the lack of intensity carries over to KM. Who rarely exhibits leadership actions when off the field. His demeanor resembles Frosty the Snowman.

There seems little question there is essentially no QB development. Last week I was slammed for suggesting letting Murray sit for a series. My point was KK needs to get Murray’s attention because if KK has it now, he’s almost a total failure as a teacher. Murray’s mechanics are amateurish. He overthrew Fitz due to a lack of arm follow through. He did step into that throw but doesn’t do that consistently. When he rolls out he never resets, failing to pull up to throw. Sunday on a critical play, he instead ran out of bounds, well short of the first down line. You have to wonder if Murray has the courage to take a hit to complete a crucial throw. Have you seen Murray call an audible? I haven’t. I’m not certain he knows how to read a defense. He locks on his primary target like a laser and rarely uses progressions to defeat coverage.

The offense’s play design illustrates KK has no idea how to design a run game. Where’s the creativity we were promised? The most creative KK play I saw was Kirk going in motion that looked like 12 yards deep on a red zone play. Effectively leaving the offense to play 10 against 11. Another example: do they even have a 2 minute drill they practice?

Part of Murray’s failure can be attributed to some of the worst play calling I’ve ever seen. KK apparently studied the NFL and decided the most open receivers were the ones behind the line of scrimmage. That’s good for KM’s completion percentage but doesn’t win games. Despite near continual failures of this tactic KK persists. This week the Cards hit a new low of 4.3 yds per pass. Of course it’s harder to go deep when you never keep blockers in to protect. KK’s timing of when to call deep passes is odd at best. He often eschews first downs for a long shot chance at a big play. He seems most prone to do this on third down. He clearly also doesn’t comprehend trying for field goal range when facing third and long. He doesn’t know how to keep his team in striking position.

Whether it’s clock management or understanding the game situation KK seems to have no consistent grasp on reality. This week he punted with 7 minutes left and trailing by 3 scores. Did he expect his defense to give him 3 more possessions? It would have seemed better odds to let his offense try for a makable first down. He was still trying play action, delayed handoffs with 3 minutes left and 1 timeout.

Overall this team lacks discipline. They were lucky they weren’t flagged for knocking the ball out of Cooper’s hands long after the play had ended. KM intentionally grounds the ball like a Pop Warner player. 12 men on the field twice, then 10 when they allow a TD. Who’s in charge here? Is KK even involved with the defense? Does he hold anyone accountable for anything?

It would be one thing if the defense was the only problem as the Cards’ website seems to indicate. This problem is team-wide. The offense is equally responsible for this failure.

Finally, KK and staff clearly got out-coached. They’d substitute with 10 seconds on the play clock allowing the opposition to also substitute causing a Cards’ penalty or forcing them to waste a timeout. Fool me once...... Unless a remarkable transformation occurs the end of the season should coincide with the end of the KK experiment.
 

BritCard

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I don't know. It's only been 2 games and 2 games ago we were going 5-0 and were play off contenders.

I watched the All 22. Kyler missed / didn't throw to multiple wide open guys. It wasn't the play calling. I thought it was. I said it was. But having watched it it really wasn't.

Kyler didn't take so many simple throws that Kliff didn't know what else to do other than screens and quick checkdowns. He really was that bad. If was any other QB and any other situation he may well have been taken out. I have much more sympathy for Kliff after watching it back. Kyler easily left 200 passing yards on the field.

So it really comes down to why Kyler suddenly took a step back. Maybe he split up with his GF or his cat died?

Actually I know what his issue is. He sees ghosts against zone defenses. Carolina played almost exclusively zone and Kyler sees a DB jumping the ball on every pass. Anything remote straight down the middle he's throwing high or low. Anything with a DB or linebacker even within 10 yards of where he wants to go he checks out of it.

He's spooked. It started with the Lions game and they threw him off with the zone when he was expecting all man and the 3 INTs have given him the yips. Carolina played all zone with very deep safeties to stop the deep ball and 3 linebackers with no responsibility vs the pass at all because they knew Kyler wasn't goping to throw it over them. Which meant the LB's could just key on the run and any underneath passes.

They schemed it really well, kudos to Rhule. They saw the weakness in Kylers game and took advantage and now every team is going to do the same. But Kyler missed a crap load of easy passes on Sunday.

Also Vance sucks. I always thoughts he sucked. I never wanted him. But I'm willing to give him a semi pass on Sunday for now considering he was missing both safeties. Although, he is the one who thought those safeties were good enough and he's the one that thought Riley was better than Washington. Hence, semi pass.
 
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slanidrac16

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Hope you are wrong but I can’t disagree with your assessments.

KK seems to be calling the play after the result of the last play. A good play caller calls the play and has at least two ideas of the next play unless there’s a problem like a sack or penalty.

We need to slow the game down a bit for both Kyler AND this terrible defense.

It really bothered me to watch the Panthers March down the field on their opening drive Only to see us go no huddle, 3 and out in 45 seconds.
 

slanidrac16

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I don't know. It's only been 2 games and 2 games ago we were going 5-0 and were play off contenders.

I watched the All 22. Kyler missed / didn't throw to multiple wide open guys. It wasn't the play calling. I thought it was. I said it was. But having watched it it really wasn't.

Kyler didn't take so many simple throws that Kliff didn't know what else to do other than screens and quick checkdowns. He really was that bad. If was any other QB and any other situation he may well have been taken out. I have much more sympathy for Kliff after watching it back. Kyler easily left 200 passing yards on the field.

So it really comes down to why Kyler suddenly took a step back. Maybe he split up with his GF or his cat died?

Actually I know what his issue is. He sees ghosts against zone defenses. Carolina played almost exclusively zone and Kyler sees a DB jumping the ball on every pass. Anything remote straight down the middle he's throwing high or low. Anything with a DB or linebacker even within 10 yards of where he wants to go he checks out of it.

He's spooked. It started with the Lions game and they threw him off with the zone when he was expecting all man and the 3 INTs have given him the yips. Carolina played all zone with very deep safeties to stop the deep ball and 3 linebackers with no responsibility vs the pass at all because they knew Kyler wasn't goping to throw it over them. Which meant the LB's could just key on the run and any underneath passes.

They schemed it really well, kudos to Rhule. They saw the weakness in Kylers game and took advantage and now every team is going to do the same. But Kyler missed a crap load of easy passes on Sunday.

Also Vance sucks. I always thoughts he sucked. I never wanted him. But I'm willing to give him a semi pass on Sunday for now considering he was missing both safeties. Although, he is the one who thought those safeties were good enough and he's the one that thought Riley was better than Washington. Hence, semi pass.
I know we sometimes disagree but not this time although Kk deserves a little blame.

what we have to get over is it’s okay to call Kyler out. That’s what we do as fans. Russell Wilson has many games where he didn’t throw for 300 , 3 td’s and no ints.

A blueprint has been designed by the league on how to stop Kyler. It will be up to him and KK to come up with a way to beat it.

That means change.

1. Stop the upbeat no huddle every drive stuff. Slow it down a bit and give Kyler time to think. This would also help to keep the defense off the field.

2. Put Kyler under center more. I actually think this would help our run game.

3. Establish a bloody their mouth attitude and run the ball. We have to make teams respect our ground game which would open up the underneath routes.
 

slanidrac16

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This board is WAY to emotional.

Two weeks ago we were on our way to Kyler being MVP, and the Super Bowl. Now we are a failure.



Neither assessment are anywhere close to accurate, and both are laughable.
Nice post. What’s your theory? How about contributing something of substance?
 

Mainstreet

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When the Cardinals hired Kingsbury I thought the offense would be able to carry the team at times.

That has not proved to be the case and the defense looks even worse.

Maybe we should start pealing back the layers starting with the defensive coordinator to see if it can be fixed short of a complete overhaul.
 

Dback Jon

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Nice post. What’s your theory? How about contributing something of substance?


As you stated, the NFL has reacted to K1, and he needs to react back. Injuries have played a part, but AZ was never a super bowl team.
 

AZCB34

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This board is WAY to emotional.

Two weeks ago we were on our way to Kyler being MVP, and the Super Bowl. Now we are a failure.



Neither assessment are anywhere close to accurate, and both are laughable.

Have you watched the All 22?
 

SoonerLou

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Have you watched the All 22?
I did. Kyler left some plays out there, but people are going overboard.

Early in the game he could have got a lot of big yards though.

I actually disagree with this analysis. Andy's not looking for the ball and by the time he stops his route the defender is there.
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Situationally the top GIF he should have dumped it off to Chase to get us in FG range...but if Hopkins somehow stays in bounds this is a big throw/better placement if he gets the room.

Needs to be better, but eh...lets wait till midseason at least before we go overboard.

I have a strange feeling the offense is going to put up a lot of points the next few weeks and this board will get over the top the other way.
 

Proximo

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This board is WAY to emotional.

Two weeks ago we were on our way to Kyler being MVP, and the Super Bowl. Now we are a failure.



Neither assessment are anywhere close to accurate, and both are laughable.

Yes this X 1000. People are now calling us the worst team in the league - or at least implying it saying we are going to lose to the jets.

We are 2 and 2.

Yes Kyler has looked like crap the last 2 games, does not mean he won't look good in the next 2, especially since he was good in the first 2 games.
 

Proximo

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As you stated, the NFL has reacted to K1, and he needs to react back. Injuries have played a part, but AZ was never a super bowl team.

Do people really think he won't react back. Are they expecting him to throw for 150 yards a game from now on and be exiled from the league?

I have not lost faith, I still believe he will be a top 5 NFL qb.
 

ASUCHRIS

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It would be interesting for people to be specific in their defense of KK or VJ, and most importantly Keim.

It's sad we're wasting another year of cheap Kyler just to prove again that Keim can't put together a decent roster, and KK/VJ are in way over their heads.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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How come every time they show the KK and the Cards coaching staff during a game, this comes to mind:

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:D
 

Solar7

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While this echoes sentiments I've felt and have been vocal about, we're still 2-2 with a great win over the 49ers before they were fully decimated.

Unfortunately, obviously, I think all of what Harry said is true. But I do think if we beat the Jets and do anything of note against the Cowboys or Seahawks, people will go back to being supportive of the current regime.

I think fans wanted Kyler to make that second year jump so bad because it's happened two years in a row, but it's important to see that's not the norm. Now, what really hurts here is that Kyler and Kliff are inexorably linked. Is Bidwill going to split them up after two years of the experiment, one in this surreal covid year? I'd say it's unlikely, and same with moving on from Keim. I bet we'll get a new DC, but that's it.

At the end of the day, the big question is this: when is this team going to be prepared to overtake the division? What's the pathway to that? I really don't see one anytime soon, and that's what scares me.
 

Chopper0080

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The 2019 Cards decided on a bold plan to revitalize the team. They would hire a losing college coach who had developed an offense that put a bunch of points on the board. They believed Kansas City was the wave of the future and they wanted to ride that wave. Now it’s looking like the move was as misdirected as it was bold.

Most teams would have tried to hire Kingsbury as an offensive coordinator, but the Cards pushed all their chips to the center of the table. The Cards gave him an incredible amount of support. The took his dream QB with the first choice in the draft despite having traded up to draft a QB the previous year. They then traded away that QB at a loss. The Cards also signed a DC with head coaching experience to ease Kingsbury’s transition.

Things started to fall apart fast on defense. The DC struggled is an understatement. I joined others in arguing he deserved a chance this year with a better set of players. I was wrong. His unit lacks discipline and lacks effective technique design, e.g. blitzes. They do not play aggressively, e.g. 1 interception YTD and they simply too often make wrong, disorganized defensive calls, e.g. 10 men on the field yielding a TD . This is an ineffective defense. If Joseph has helped ease the HC transition it might have been better to select someone who’d succeeded in the HC role. Frankly his failure to develop a role for Simmons would be grounds enough to relieve him of his job. I’m okay with doing it now.

Some of my concerns are purely subjective. Some of you may think it odd but I fault Kingsbury’s sideline presence here. It often seems unemotional and detached. He doesn’t have to be Hank Stram or Pete Carroll. It may be the absence of fans makes his ultra calm seem more concerning. However, I think the lack of intensity carries over to KM. Who rarely exhibits leadership actions when off the field. His demeanor resembles Frosty the Snowman.

There seems little question there is essentially no QB development. Last week I was slammed for suggesting letting Murray sit for a series. My point was KK needs to get Murray’s attention because if KK has it now, he’s almost a total failure as a teacher. Murray’s mechanics are amateurish. He overthrew Fitz due to a lack of arm follow through. He did step into that throw but doesn’t do that consistently. When he rolls out he never resets, failing to pull up to throw. Sunday on a critical play, he instead ran out of bounds, well short of the first down line. You have to wonder if Murray has the courage to take a hit to complete a crucial throw. Have you seen Murray call an audible? I haven’t. I’m not certain he knows how to read a defense. He locks on his primary target like a laser and rarely uses progressions to defeat coverage.

The offense’s play design illustrates KK has no idea how to design a run game. Where’s the creativity we were promised? The most creative KK play I saw was Kirk going in motion that looked like 12 yards deep on a red zone play. Effectively leaving the offense to play 10 against 11. Another example: do they even have a 2 minute drill they practice?

Part of Murray’s failure can be attributed to some of the worst play calling I’ve ever seen. KK apparently studied the NFL and decided the most open receivers were the ones behind the line of scrimmage. That’s good for KM’s completion percentage but doesn’t win games. Despite near continual failures of this tactic KK persists. This week the Cards hit a new low of 4.3 yds per pass. Of course it’s harder to go deep when you never keep blockers in to protect. KK’s timing of when to call deep passes is odd at best. He often eschews first downs for a long shot chance at a big play. He seems most prone to do this on third down. He clearly also doesn’t comprehend trying for field goal range when facing third and long. He doesn’t know how to keep his team in striking position.

Whether it’s clock management or understanding the game situation KK seems to have no consistent grasp on reality. This week he punted with 7 minutes left and trailing by 3 scores. Did he expect his defense to give him 3 more possessions? It would have seemed better odds to let his offense try for a makable first down. He was still trying play action, delayed handoffs with 3 minutes left and 1 timeout.

Overall this team lacks discipline. They were lucky they weren’t flagged for knocking the ball out of Cooper’s hands long after the play had ended. KM intentionally grounds the ball like a Pop Warner player. 12 men on the field twice, then 10 when they allow a TD. Who’s in charge here? Is KK even involved with the defense? Does he hold anyone accountable for anything?

It would be one thing if the defense was the only problem as the Cards’ website seems to indicate. This problem is team-wide. The offense is equally responsible for this failure.

Finally, KK and staff clearly got out-coached. They’d substitute with 10 seconds on the play clock allowing the opposition to also substitute causing a Cards’ penalty or forcing them to waste a timeout. Fool me once...... Unless a remarkable transformation occurs the end of the season should coincide with the end of the KK experiment.
Disagree. Others have posted reviews of the All 22 and it shows our offense is mostly struggling because Kyler is not making the throws he needs to, consistently. Of course the OC, HC are going to shoulder a little bit of this because Kliff works with Kyler all week, but this is a QB issue. The league is giving Kyler a problem he does not yet have an answer for. Until Kyler can consistently find and hit those open WRs in the intermediate level of the defense, our offense will continue to sputter. And it makes sense from a defensive standpoint...you have a QB who likes to get the bal lout of his hand...take away the short stuff. You have a QB who throws a nice deep ball...keep safeties back. Only so much an OC can do when teams are leaving an area of the field wide open and the QB can't make them pay for it. Some of the critique of Kliff is confirmation bias IMO.

Regarding Vance, I have said the same and agree with what you are saying. His defense is antiquated and bad. His inability to utilize Simmons is termination-worthy IMO. It is making the issues of the offense worse because the defense is out-schemed and that puts the team in a hole.
 

Krangodnzr

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I did. Kyler left some plays out there, but people are going overboard.

Early in the game he could have got a lot of big yards though.

I actually disagree with this analysis. Andy's not looking for the ball and by the time he stops his route the defender is there.
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Situationally the top GIF he should have dumped it off to Chase to get us in FG range...but if Hopkins somehow stays in bounds this is a big throw/better placement if he gets the room.

Needs to be better, but eh...lets wait till midseason at least before we go overboard.

I have a strange feeling the offense is going to put up a lot of points the next few weeks and this board will get over the top the other way.

Love your posts Sooner Lou. Voice of reason.

I chalk up the past two weeks to a combination of teams playing Kyler a bit differently (more shallow zones, forcing Murray to complete intermediate and long passes) and Vance Joseph's complete inability to actually COACH and adjust to what offenses are doing.

Long term I think Murray will be ok, but I think this defense is going to suck as long as Vance is the coach.
 

splitsecond

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Regarding Vance, I have said the same and agree with what you are saying. His defense is antiquated and bad. His inability to utilize Simmons is termination-worthy IMO. It is making the issues of the offense worse because the defense is out-schemed and that puts the team in a hole.

On top of this, putting VJ and Billy Davis together was going to be a disaster from the start. They both suffer the same problems with their schemes. I cannot fathom why Keim thought bringing him back after the last time he was here as such a disaster.
 

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Look, our OL is still pretty bad, and our D is a sieve. Our 1st round pick can’t get on the field & neither can our 3rd rounder Jones. Other than our red zone efficiency, KK’s play calling has been poor. I have absolutely no concerns when it comes to Murray, but definitely concerned about KK & SK. No matter what, Joseph needs to go. This team will NEVER be a playoff team with Vance as the DC.
 

PACardsFan

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On top of this, putting VJ and Billy Davis together was going to be a disaster from the start. They both suffer the same problems with their schemes. I cannot fathom why Keim thought bringing him back after the last time he was here as such a disaster.
ABSOLUTELY!!!
 

AZman5103

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We are who we thought we were.

We got in this same mindset last year. EVeryone knew going into the season that we were a 4-6 win team max. Then the season start....you see glimpses...you see them choking away games that they should have won...and it becomes super easy to say WE SHOULD BE 9-7!!

This year we improved our roster, but we were still a 7-8 win team max. Its an improvement...not the major improvement we were hoping for...but an improvement. Now, the scary part is that I was counting on 4 of those 7-8 wins coming in the first 5 weeks. Our next 7 games after the Jets are BRUTAL..and if the team just gives up we will lose ever single one of them.

The ideal situation would have been for us to get stomped by the 49ers in the opening week, get us humble again, and then win 4 in a row with easier wins against Washington and the Jets, and hard fought victories against the Lions and Panthers. We would then be entering this guantlet feeling confident we could split and for 3-4 or even 4-3.

Now Im not sure we will hit 5 wins this year.
 

cardpa

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I did. Kyler left some plays out there, but people are going overboard.

Early in the game he could have got a lot of big yards though.

I actually disagree with this analysis. Andy's not looking for the ball and by the time he stops his route the defender is there.
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Situationally the top GIF he should have dumped it off to Chase to get us in FG range...but if Hopkins somehow stays in bounds this is a big throw/better placement if he gets the room.

Needs to be better, but eh...lets wait till midseason at least before we go overboard.

I have a strange feeling the offense is going to put up a lot of points the next few weeks and this board will get over the top the other way.

In the third video, it appears that 54 read the Oline and knew what was coming. As soon as he saw the Oline pulling to his side he turned and went in to make the tackle. It was almost like he knew what the play was going to be as soon as he saw the Humphries and Pugh pull out to setup blocking for the screen.
 

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