What I Saw

HairZach

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I agree with you Murray assessment. Disagree on run blocking. It is a step down from last year so far.

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Supposedly the run blocking being worse is on Maxx Williams being out with injury
 

Goldfield

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The Cardinals still ran for over 100 yards. The run is plenty effective.

As captain of team Murray, this game was his fault. If he throws one less pick, the Cardinals win this game. If he throws two less picks, they probably win by two TDs.
Correct on both comments!
 

Chris_Sanders

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On my 9-7 prediction I had us at 2-1 now and here we are. I am not concerned.

Our greatest QBs have had stinker games that didn't include 3 TDs
 

MrYeahBut

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Didn't Palmer throw several pics in Seattle once and still won? Not comparing Qb's, just curious if I'm remembering right.
 

WisconsinCard

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Fitz is either a forgotten man in this offense or he's cooked.
Murray still struggles to go through any progressions.
The secondary is deficient.
The Oline is ordinary.
KK is who he is, a guy who can draw up trick plays but can't call an entire game.
I said it last year and I'll say it again. K1 doesn't know what open is in the NFL. If Fitz has position he's open.
 

SoonerLou

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I keep saying this, but Dan Arnold is smoking dbs/safeties that guard him. TD pass if he looks for him. Obviously got the TD anyway, but still.
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Krangodnzr

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Why I'm not concerned:

1. Games like this are bound to happen to a young QB. Living in LA, I also marginally follow the Rams, especially since they are a divisional opponent. The Cardinals ask A LOT more of Murray than the Rams ask of Goff. Goff literally has a few simple reads on every play and McVay's motion based offense that stress the inside zone run and play action just gets guys wide open in space. Kingsbury's offense is similar in some aspects, but the difference I see is that the Cardinals run out a lot more looks, some quite exotic. This will take awhile for Murray to fully master along with having to master simple nuances of QB play.

2. Where Murray is pretty good right now is throwing outside the numbers. He is SPECIAL when it comes to throwing to receivers near the sidelines. He throws the ball with zip and accuracy, and the reality is that only about 10 QBs in the NFL throw better or as good as he does. What this means is that he has a tool that few QBs at any given time have and you don't have to limit what you ask him to do.

3. Did anyone see the stat that the Cardinals are 0-8-1 when Murray runs 5 times or less? I think this will get better with time. My reasoning? Few teams have tried what the Lions did (4 rushers, 7 in pass coverage) so Murray has to learn how to beat this look. He has the arm strength and accuracy to carve up these looks, and I think we will see a game soon where a team will run this type of look at Murray and he is going to carve it up. He needs to learn to be patient and when the rush isn't getting there, just sit back a bit more and find the openings in the zone.

4. Kingsbury HAS shown a propensity to grow from his mistakes. The Cardinals will figure this out; this was a simple correctable loss.

5. I like what I am seeing from the skill position players on offense. Isabella looks ready to play this year, and could be a dynamic playmaker. Hopkins has been even better than advertised, and if Murray had feed him the ball more, he probably would've had 18 catches this week. Daniels made a nice play or two at TE and I want to see him get the ball more. Edmonds has carved out a niche as the pass catching threat and runs a beautiful two man game with Murray. While everyone is concerned with Drake, he has been more than adequate and the Cardinals are currently averaging more yards rushing per game than they have in a long time. The offensive line hasn't been good, but it also hasn't been bad.

6. The Pass rush has been vastly improved this year, and you're seeing a number of different defenders not named Chandler Jones get sacks. The Cardinals currently have 11 sack through 3 games; they are on pace for 58 sacks on the season which is a fairly high number. I am more concerned about the lack of interceptions and TOs as a whole, but the Cardinals ARE putting pressure on QBs.
 

BritCard

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I keep saying this, but Dan Arnold is smoking dbs/safeties that guard him. TD pass if he looks for him. Obviously got the TD anyway, but still.
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We could have run crossing routes all day. Every one was wide open.
 

SoonerLou

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Why I'm not concerned:

1. Games like this are bound to happen to a young QB. Living in LA, I also marginally follow the Rams, especially since they are a divisional opponent. The Cardinals ask A LOT more of Murray than the Rams ask of Goff. Goff literally has a few simple reads on every play and McVay's motion based offense that stress the inside zone run and play action just gets guys wide open in space. Kingsbury's offense is similar in some aspects, but the difference I see is that the Cardinals run out a lot more looks, some quite exotic. This will take awhile for Murray to fully master along with having to master simple nuances of QB play.

2. Where Murray is pretty good right now is throwing outside the numbers. He is SPECIAL when it comes to throwing to receivers near the sidelines. He throws the ball with zip and accuracy, and the reality is that only about 10 QBs in the NFL throw better or as good as he does. What this means is that he has a tool that few QBs at any given time have and you don't have to limit what you ask him to do.

3. Did anyone see the stat that the Cardinals are 0-8-1 when Murray runs 5 times or less? I think this will get better with time. My reasoning? Few teams have tried what the Lions did (4 rushers, 7 in pass coverage) so Murray has to learn how to beat this look. He has the arm strength and accuracy to carve up these looks, and I think we will see a game soon where a team will run this type of look at Murray and he is going to carve it up. He needs to learn to be patient and when the rush isn't getting there, just sit back a bit more and find the openings in the zone.

4. Kingsbury HAS shown a propensity to grow from his mistakes. The Cardinals will figure this out; this was a simple correctable loss.

5. I like what I am seeing from the skill position players on offense. Isabella looks ready to play this year, and could be a dynamic playmaker. Hopkins has been even better than advertised, and if Murray had feed him the ball more, he probably would've had 18 catches this week. Daniels made a nice play or two at TE and I want to see him get the ball more. Edmonds has carved out a niche as the pass catching threat and runs a beautiful two man game with Murray. While everyone is concerned with Drake, he has been more than adequate and the Cardinals are currently averaging more yards rushing per game than they have in a long time. The offensive line hasn't been good, but it also hasn't been bad.

6. The Pass rush has been vastly improved this year, and you're seeing a number of different defenders not named Chandler Jones get sacks. The Cardinals currently have 11 sack through 3 games; they are on pace for 58 sacks on the season which is a fairly high number. I am more concerned about the lack of interceptions and TOs as a whole, but the Cardinals ARE putting pressure on QBs.
I think Colin Cowherd said this the other day. Kyler Murray sort of reminded him of Andrew Luck's early situation where he's asked to carry the offense.

One his decision making seemed shaky (which was not the issue the 1st two games). They probably should have just relied on his running ability to carry the game home. Just didnt have it that day. Run him and see if it opens up those easier passing lanes.

It seemed that way after his almost 4th int. Think they just ran him that last drive (or see if Drake can break one)
 

Krangodnzr

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I think Colin Cowherd said this the other day. Kyler Murray sort of reminded him of Andrew Luck's early situation where he's asked to carry the offense.

One his decision making seemed shaky (which was not the issue the 1st two games). They probably should have just relied on his running ability to carry the game home. Just didnt have it that day. Run him and see if it opens up those easier passing lanes.

It seemed that way after his almost 4th int. Think they just ran him that last drive (or see if Drake can break one)

That's the thing....I don't think Murray has to "carry" this offense. The running game is averaging over 4 yards per carry NOT adding in Murray's carries. An NFL average QB in some respects would be getting MORE out of the passing game. In all three games we have all sat back and seen huge plays that Murray inexplicably missed for one reason or another.

Murray is going to be a superstar in the NFL, but he doesn't have to be a superstar RIGHT NOW. I'd argue that the Cardinals passing game has more good receivers than any time under the Arians regime. Hopkins is better than Fitz was during that time period, and Murray also has Fitzgerald, Kirk (when healthy), Isabella, Arnold, and the backs are both decent pass catchers.
 

Krangodnzr

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We could have run crossing routes all day. Every one was wide open.

And there was very little pressure. Murray isn't going to have many games this year where he is going to face so little pressure. Maybe Seattle, Carolina, and the Rams for the most part.

The Rams can get some pressure when Donald turns it up, but they largely have NO pass rushers other than him.
 

SoonerLou

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That's the thing....I don't think Murray has to "carry" this offense. The running game is averaging over 4 yards per carry NOT adding in Murray's carries. An NFL average QB in some respects would be getting MORE out of the passing game. In all three games we have all sat back and seen huge plays that Murray inexplicably missed for one reason or another.

Murray is going to be a superstar in the NFL, but he doesn't have to be a superstar RIGHT NOW. I'd argue that the Cardinals passing game has more good receivers than any time under the Arians regime. Hopkins is better than Fitz was during that time period, and Murray also has Fitzgerald, Kirk (when healthy), Isabella, Arnold, and the backs are both decent pass catchers.
And there was very little pressure. Murray isn't going to have many games this year where he is going to face so little pressure. Maybe Seattle, Carolina, and the Rams for the most part.

The Rams can get some pressure when Donald turns it up, but they largely have NO pass rushers other than him.
Ehh.. I think you're overstating the talent. Seemed like that almost int to Fitz was because he took forever to get to that spot (even though Hopkins was open)

If anything Kyler has a timing issue thats been hurt with the lack of OTAs/preseason.

I'm big on QBR...despite 3 horrible ints..he's still 10th in the league at QBR.

Its not easy putting up points/tds on the 49ers....ask Mahomes. Greenlaw made an incredible tip and Hopkins got tackled at the 1. Washington game he was a tad late to Isabella and also missed Chase. Hopkins also ran the wrong route which led to an int.

Last game Chase got tackled at the 1.

If he were sitting at 7td passes to 3 ints I think people would calm down a bit and just see it as a one bad game. However, knowing he's sitting at 4 tds 5 ints and a "passer rating" of 79...just not a good look.

I think the issue for Kyler is that he knows he's missed out on TD passes/big plays. So its like he's trying to make up for them even though he did a couple times, but with TD runs. As you say trying to be "MVP"

Just gotta be patient and it'll eventually work out. For years Russell Wilson put up "average passing stats" and didnt force it.
 

Krangodnzr

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Ehh.. I think you're overstating the talent. Seemed like that almost int to Fitz was because he took forever to get to that spot (even though Hopkins was open)

If anything Kyler has a timing issue thats been hurt with the lack of OTAs/preseason.

I'm big on QBR...despite 3 horrible ints..he's still 10th in the league at QBR.

Its not easy putting up points/tds on the 49ers....ask Mahomes. Greenlaw made an incredible tip and Hopkins got tackled at the 1. Washington game he was a tad late to Isabella and also missed Chase. Hopkins also ran the wrong route which led to an int.

Last game Chase got tackled at the 1.

If he were sitting at 7td passes to 3 ints I think people would calm down a bit and just see it as a one bad game. However, knowing he's sitting at 4 tds 5 ints....just not a good look.

I think the issue for Kyler is that he knows he's missed out on TD passes. So its like he's trying to make up for them even though he did a couple times, but with TD runs. As you say trying to be "MVP"

Just gotta be patient and it'll eventually work out. For years Russell Wilson put up "average passing stats" and didnt force it.

I don't think I am overstating the talent.

How many teams in the league have ONE receiver as good as Hopkins? Fitzgerald is still a good NFL receiver and Isabella is faster than 95% of the league.

Where I'd argue the Cardinals have a slight issue is that they don't have a true #2 outside receiver, but other than that, they have skill and some speed all over the offense.

I also like QBR because it's a mix of quantitative AND qualitative. Watch Jared Goff and you'll see a QB Rating star this year who is lagging behind on QBR. The reason? 50% of NFL QBs would put up the exact same or better numbers. The passes he is making are routinely to WIDE OPEN receivers who get lots of YAC. Is it because of Goff? Absolutely not, McVay's scheme gets the receivers open.
 

SoonerLou

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I don't think I am overstating the talent.

How many teams in the league have ONE receiver as good as Hopkins? Fitzgerald is still a good NFL receiver and Isabella is faster than 95% of the league.

Where I'd argue the Cardinals have a slight issue is that they don't have a true #2 outside receiver, but other than that, they have skill and some speed all over the offense.

I also like QBR because it's a mix of quantitative AND qualitative. Watch Jared Goff and you'll see a QB Rating star this year who is lagging behind on QBR. The reason? 50% of NFL QBs would put up the exact same or better numbers. The passes he is making are routinely to WIDE OPEN receivers who get lots of YAC. Is it because of Goff? Absolutely not, McVay's scheme gets the receivers open.
I hear what you're saying. I just think we got a lot of #3s right now and Hopkins who is elite. If Andy is consistent that should help. Kirk...he's just hit or miss, but hopefully we'll see him step up.

I do think Kliff gets stagnant and then gets cute at the wrong time. The game changed imo when they were moving the ball downfield and then Kliff called the Isabella reverse. Then later the backup QB on 4th and 1 stuff. Kyler looked pissed on the sidelines and Kliff tried to calm him down. Next series....he threw that 3rd int.

I think in terms of attacking a defense Kliff right now doesnt have a feel for screens or reverses nowhere near what McVay/Shanahan/Reid have.

What was the last play we got big yards from misdirection? Thats a feel thing that only comes with time. So we dont get the easy yards as much. Our short throws are very deliberate.

All in all Kyler just needs to put together a good games against Carolina and the Jets and that should give him nice momentum heading into Dallas.
 

BritCard

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I don't think I am overstating the talent.

How many teams in the league have ONE receiver as good as Hopkins? Fitzgerald is still a good NFL receiver and Isabella is faster than 95% of the league.

Where I'd argue the Cardinals have a slight issue is that they don't have a true #2 outside receiver, but other than that, they have skill and some speed all over the offense.

I also like QBR because it's a mix of quantitative AND qualitative. Watch Jared Goff and you'll see a QB Rating star this year who is lagging behind on QBR. The reason? 50% of NFL QBs would put up the exact same or better numbers. The passes he is making are routinely to WIDE OPEN receivers who get lots of YAC. Is it because of Goff? Absolutely not, McVay's scheme gets the receivers open.

Do you feel our offense is overly managed? What I mean by that is does Kliff over think things?

Is he a paper coach who's too interested in looking clever with his play design over getting yards and points?

For example, look at the Seahawks and Packers. They aren't running 15 play 90 yard drives. They are playing old fashioned football.

DK, you run to the left hash on the 10 yard line, Russ will put the ball in that area and you adjust to it.

Same with the Packers, they play fairly simple but effective football. Out routes, go routes, TE slants. Nothing remotely as intricate as what Kilff does.

He he stifling Kyler's natural talent into a bunch of 5 yard passes and receiver screens?
 

SoonerLou

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Do you feel our offense is overly managed? What I mean by that is does Kliff over think things?

Is he a paper coach who's too interested in looking clever with his play design over getting yards and points?

For example, look at the Seahawks and Packers. They aren't running 15 play 90 yard drives. They are playing old fashioned football.

DK, you run to the left hash on the 10 yard line, Russ will put the ball in that area and you adjust to it.

Same with the Packers, they play fairly simple but effective football. Out routes, go routes, TE slants. Nothing remotely as intricate as what Kilff does.

He he stifling Kyler's natural talent into a bunch of 5 yard passes and receiver screens?
Those teams have Outside Wrs that stretch the defense. Andy only gets so many snaps and he's a slot guy.

Lazard though not a burner looks like what we were hoping Hakeem Butler would be.

It also helps to have under center run action to set up those deep passes.

Sidenote: It should be noted that Kyler, albeit a freshman, struggled in this same version of the Air Raid his freshman year in college. Its different than Lincoln Riley's despite Kliff's modifications. So there seems to be an adjustment period.
 

BritCard

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Those teams have Outside Wrs that stretch the defense. Andy only gets so many snaps and he's a slot guy.

Lazard though not a burner looks like what we were hoping Hakeem Butler would be.

It also helps to have under center run action to set up those deep passes.

Sidenote: It should be noted that Kyler, albeit a freshman, struggled in this same version of the Air Raid his freshman year in college. Its different than Lincoln Riley's despite Kliff's modifications. So there seems to be an adjustment period.

I don't see that. Lazard runs a 4.55 40. Thats 0.1 slower than Kirk. Hopkins is a 4.41 guy. Both of them are enough to stretch a defense.

Our guys are quick enough to stretch a defense, plus it doesn't have to be outside, Isabella can run those type of plays from the slot. But it seems it too simple for Kliff, he can't just have a play where he says "You beat this guy with speed", he has to somehow trick it out so that the guy gets deep by drawing coverage away with some fancy trips bunch after a jetsweep.
 

BritCard

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Here's that game ending play again for those that thought he might not be able to see Isabella. Yikes.

That's as easy an NFL as a QB can make. He hasn't even started his motion yet and Isabella is already open. Whereas Johnson couldn't get more covered.

I wonder if after the 3 INT's he crapped his pants on seeing the deep safety start to come downhill (he's jogging here) even though that safety is 12 yards off the play. And actually way before Kyler starts his motion the safety checks out to help cover Johnson.

Really bad decision.

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MadCardDisease

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Here's that game ending play again for those that thought he might not be able to see Isabella. Yikes.

That's as easy an NFL as a QB can make. He hasn't even started his motion yet and Isabella is already open. Whereas Johnson couldn't get more covered.


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Yeah but what about that giant Cardinal logo blocking his vision?
 

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