15 thoughts - Niners game

Gandhi

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1 – What a huge, huge win (nice analysis, Sherlock), and also on a personal level. I cannot stand the Niners. By far the worst team in the league. I would rather lose ten times in a row to the Seahawks and Rams than one time to the Niners.

2 – Good game by Vance Joseph. Definitely.

3 -
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4 – Great game by De’Vondre Campbell! Easily the best Cardinal on the field. Makes sense now why they call him their biggest free agent pickup.

5 – For all the talk about Andy Isabella becoming the primary kick returner, and being dangerous at it, where was he? Not exactly that way to bring me confidence.

6 – The special teams coverage units looks really good!

7 – Heureka, that was a rough debut for Isaiah Simmons.

8 – Did you notice the two last plays of the first half? Maybe 10-12 seconds left - Kyler Murray short to Hopkins – Hopkins goes down, and quickly flip the ball to a running Fitzgerald – Fitzgerald quickly get the judge to spot the ball – Murray quickly spikes it – Gonzalez scores on the field goal. Maybe a little detail, but what a great one. Who knows if it did much of anything, but at least it gave a good feeling going into halftime.

9 – Kyler Murray has a status meeting at Keim’s office in January:

Keim: “The season is over. Good first season, Kyler. Do you have any preferred adjustment for year two?”

Murray: “Nuk Hopkins.”

10 – I am not a fan of “what if’s”, but I do think it tells a story that Zane Gonzalez missed two field goals. Yes, they also missed a fourth down and goal, but I still think it shows that it was not that unrealistic that the victory could have been bigger.

11 – Did you see Isaiah Simmons’ black paint under his eyes? It was drawn like two crosses. Looked almost a little scary.

12 – Ugh, that was a rough game for D.J. Humphries.

13 – Was Zach Allen or Angelo Blackson the best defensive lineman? Hard to tell, but both could potentially end up being big reinforcements.

14 – Man, it is annoying that the announcer – Chris Spielman – constantly uses players’ first name, huh? It is downright arrogant. Yo, Chris, you don’t have a personal relation with all of them, and Chris, you are the commentator for all viewers – do you really think everyone knows the players by first name, Chris? (See what I did here?)

15 – Surprisingly good game from Reddick (on a Reddick-scale). He still can’t read anything, but at least he can use his superior athleticism to do good things.
 

AZman5103

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We played far from a perfect game, against a good team, and we won.

Over the last 2 years we would have had to bring our A+ game to beat the niners in San Fran...so I think it shows that this team has improved.

Our defense was much better. They got off the field on 3rd down, which for my money is the most important thing a D can do. Keep giving the ball back to your offense and let them score. When a team drives down the field consistently and converts numerous 3rd downs...its a major deflating event for the whole team, let alone if you give up a long drive, then go 3 and our yourself, and then give up another. At that point the game is pretty much over most of the time.

I might be asking for too much of a jump in one season, but man if we could start taking the ball away from teams, we could be really good. I will take a solid step up...so don't get crazy Vance....but if Hicks could have picked that ball...game would have looked a lot different.

We also almost lost 2 fumbles of our own though...so it could have ended badly for us.

Overall it was a good win. We need to run the ball like crazy next week, and take a couple of deep shots. Our defense should be able to keep us in that game
 

Russ Smith

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On Kyler avoiding hits if you paid attention late in the game I think the 2nd roughing call you could see Shanahan smiling at the ref and clearly complaining and one of the coaches standing by him was yelling at the ref like are we not allowed to hit him. I have spent literally years complaining that Russell Wilson does that you think you're going to hit him and then he goes down at the last second. Kyler is the same way it's very smart and the Cards have to keep pushing it with the refs. They got 2 penalties they probably got away with 2 more including one where Bosa clearly him him late in the pocket.

As pointed out by people yesterday if not for the final 2 kneeldowns he had 100 yards rushing yesterday
 

AZman5103

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On Kyler avoiding hits if you paid attention late in the game I think the 2nd roughing call you could see Shanahan smiling at the ref and clearly complaining and one of the coaches standing by him was yelling at the ref like are we not allowed to hit him. I have spent literally years complaining that Russell Wilson does that you think you're going to hit him and then he goes down at the last second. Kyler is the same way it's very smart and the Cards have to keep pushing it with the refs. They got 2 penalties they probably got away with 2 more including one where Bosa clearly him him late in the pocket.

As pointed out by people yesterday if not for the final 2 kneeldowns he had 100 yards rushing yesterday

Yea. Like it or not, its part of the game now...and I would rather be the team getting the extra 15 yards for a minor hit than not. Kyler did a really good job of running and sliding, even if it was for a 1 yard loss. I think it got in the 49ers heads a little, and Kyler is shifty enough to make someone miss who thinks he is going to slide. Some team is going to try and pull up to avoid the 15 yarder and Kyler is going to scoot right around them.
 

Krangodnzr

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On Kyler avoiding hits if you paid attention late in the game I think the 2nd roughing call you could see Shanahan smiling at the ref and clearly complaining and one of the coaches standing by him was yelling at the ref like are we not allowed to hit him. I have spent literally years complaining that Russell Wilson does that you think you're going to hit him and then he goes down at the last second. Kyler is the same way it's very smart and the Cards have to keep pushing it with the refs. They got 2 penalties they probably got away with 2 more including one where Bosa clearly him him late in the pocket.

As pointed out by people yesterday if not for the final 2 kneeldowns he had 100 yards rushing yesterday

That Bossa late hit was blatant. I was shocked they didn't call it.

I watched two games yesterday and the refs definitely weren't at the top of their games.
 

conraddobler

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You know it was more impressive than it looked if you reflect on it. Everything they need to work could be attributed to simply being rusty although that goes for all teams.

I hope we seem more points in the future but again, this was more impressive than it looks because it was a division opponent in their house, it was just basically weird to watch.

The team never really looked all that afraid or over geeked out. I see good things.
 

Russ Smith

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Yea. Like it or not, its part of the game now...and I would rather be the team getting the extra 15 yards for a minor hit than not. Kyler did a really good job of running and sliding, even if it was for a 1 yard loss. I think it got in the 49ers heads a little, and Kyler is shifty enough to make someone miss who thinks he is going to slide. Some team is going to try and pull up to avoid the 15 yarder and Kyler is going to scoot right around them.

Yep for 2 years I hated Wilson but I finally started to appreciate just how damn good he is. And I understood how big it was that he's that good at avoiding hits, it's why he can play at his size and not get hurt all the time. I don't think Kyler ran backwards once yesterday he was either stepping up or sideways, not back, so even when he did take a loss it wasn't those huge ones like last year.

Really fun to watch.
 

Vacard

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DJ is going up against Chase Young so he better earn his money. Of course they will put him on an island by himself with no help
 

WildBB

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4 – Great game by De’Vondre Campbell! Easily the best Cardinal on the field. Makes sense now why they call him their biggest free agent pickup.


6 – The special teams coverage units looks really good!

7 – Heureka, that was a rough debut for Isaiah Simmons.


9 – Kyler Murray has a status meeting at Keim’s office in January:

Keim: “The season is over. Good first season, Kyler. Do you have any preferred adjustment for year two?”

Murray: “Nuk Hopkins.”

15 – Surprisingly good game from Reddick (on a Reddick-scale). He still can’t read anything, but at least he can use his superior athleticism to do good things.

These. And the D-Line looked pretty darn stout yesterday and got some push. The goal line stand was huge. Blackson was a real nice surprise. And Phillips is just huge. Allen looks to be more beefed up too.

Simmons isn't ready yet. They'll really need to pick their spots for him, but it shouldn't be for Campbell. Not right now at least.
 

slanidrac16

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There were 5 or 6 plays where if one of them it didn’t happen we might have lost this game.

Goal line stand
Blocked punt
Drakes heads up play not to crack back which would have negated the long run by Kyler which lead to the Fg before the half.
Fitz’s incredibly heads up play getting the ball to the ref to allow us to kill the clock.
Zane hitting that career long 56 ya Fg before the half.
Pp21 using his head... literally.

If one of these plays doesn’t happen the 49ers have the ball at the end just needing a Fg to win. Outstanding team victory.
 

juza76

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There were 5 or 6 plays where if one of them it didn’t happen we might have lost this game.

Goal line stand
Blocked punt
Drakes heads up play not to crack back which would have negated the long run by Kyler which lead to the Fg before the half.
Fitz’s incredibly heads up play getting the ball to the ref to allow us to kill the clock.
Zane hitting that career long 56 ya Fg before the half.
Pp21 using his head... literally.

If one of these plays doesn’t happen the 49ers have the ball at the end just needing a Fg to win. Outstanding team victory.

But those points are part of the game, and wasn't about luck
I can add also
First two series with the defense confused allowed them to score twice
The two missed field goals
Jordan Hicks questionable holding preventing banjo interception
 

BritCard

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I just want to see a more fluid passing game where we are throwing people open and hitting them in stride. A lot of what we did were comeback routes and stationary catches withe our backs to the EZ.

Watching the highlights of other games, even just last nights, and the range of passing from Lock, Tannehill, Ben and Jones was much greater and more fun to watch.

We have a QB with one of the best arms in the league and 3 wideouts that are supposed to be one of the best trios. Let's actually see it.

High hopes for week 2.
 

BritCard

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I just want to see a more fluid passing game where we are throwing people open and hitting them in stride. A lot of what we did were comeback routes and stationary catches withe our backs to the EZ.

Watching the highlights of other games, even just last nights, and the range of passing from Lock, Tannehill, Ben and Jones was much greater and more fun to watch.

We have a QB with one of the best arms in the league and 3 wideouts that are supposed to be one of the best trios. Let's actually see it.

High hopes for week 2.


And just to preempt the "The Niners have a very good defense" crowd. They had a very good defense last year too and our passing offense was much better against them. If anything their defense got a little weaker with the loss of Thomas for a rookie and Sherman is 32, he isn't getting better with age.
 

Garthshort

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Gandhi, thanks. Always look forward to your Famous Fifteen. My two cents:

#9-I've been very fortunate as I've been around for the two best best WR performances, as measured by the number of catches, for a Cardinals' WR. In November, 1962 in a game played at Yankee Stadium, I was able to listen on radio, and Sonny Randle caught 16 Charlie Johnson passes for 256 yards. And on Direct TV I was able to watch Nuk/Kyler on Sunday. We won one and lost one.

And I'd like to add a #16. JMO, but w/o fans, it doesn't seem to me that home field is a big factor.

Again, thanks.
 

daves

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And just to preempt the "The Niners have a very good defense" crowd. They had a very good defense last year too and our passing offense was much better against them. If anything their defense got a little weaker with the loss of Thomas for a rookie and Sherman is 32, he isn't getting better with age.
Hmm, seems to me that even despite those massive downgrades :eyeroll: the 49ers were frequently expected to have the #1 defense / fantasy defense and almost UNIVERSALLY expected to be in the top 5 in the league this season. Examples:

#1 https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-rankings-ranking-all-32-defenses-ahead-of-the-2020-nfl-season
#1 https://www.sportingnews.com/us/fan...y-defense-rankings/11jifouzmnaze1photetto8k6d
#1 https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889653-power-ranking-every-nfl-defense-after-the-2020-draft
#3 https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-top-...hargers-bills-49ers-all-loaded-but-who-s-no-1
#4 https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2904031-ranking-the-nfls-top-7-defenses-heading-into-2020

But i guess since the Cardinals "only" put up 24 points (as opposed to the 25 and 26 of last season), 410 yards (357 and 266 last season), 29 first downs (19 and 21 last season), and went 7-14 on 3rd downs (2-8 and 3-10 last season), the 49ers must actually NOT have a very good defense after all. :eyeroll:

...dbs
 

DVontel

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Hmm, seems to me that even despite those massive downgrades :eyeroll: the 49ers were frequently expected to have the #1 defense / fantasy defense and almost UNIVERSALLY expected to be in the top 5 in the league this season. Examples:

#1 https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-rankings-ranking-all-32-defenses-ahead-of-the-2020-nfl-season
#1 https://www.sportingnews.com/us/fan...y-defense-rankings/11jifouzmnaze1photetto8k6d
#1 https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889653-power-ranking-every-nfl-defense-after-the-2020-draft
#3 https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-top-...hargers-bills-49ers-all-loaded-but-who-s-no-1
#4 https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2904031-ranking-the-nfls-top-7-defenses-heading-into-2020

But i guess since the Cardinals "only" put up 24 points (as opposed to the 25 and 26 of last season), 410 yards (357 and 266 last season), 29 first downs (19 and 21 last season), and went 7-14 on 3rd downs (2-8 and 3-10 last season), the 49ers must actually NOT have a very good defense after all. :eyeroll:

...dbs
He’s just throwing anything at the wall to make it stick.
 

slanidrac16

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But those points are part of the game, and wasn't about luck
I can add also
First two series with the defense confused allowed them to score twice
The two missed field goals
Jordan Hicks questionable holding preventing banjo interception

Not calling it luck, I'm calling it smart heads up play.
 

BritCard

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Hmm, seems to me that even despite those massive downgrades :eyeroll: the 49ers were frequently expected to have the #1 defense / fantasy defense and almost UNIVERSALLY expected to be in the top 5 in the league this season. Examples:

#1 https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-rankings-ranking-all-32-defenses-ahead-of-the-2020-nfl-season
#1 https://www.sportingnews.com/us/fan...y-defense-rankings/11jifouzmnaze1photetto8k6d
#1 https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889653-power-ranking-every-nfl-defense-after-the-2020-draft
#3 https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-top-...hargers-bills-49ers-all-loaded-but-who-s-no-1
#4 https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2904031-ranking-the-nfls-top-7-defenses-heading-into-2020

But i guess since the Cardinals "only" put up 24 points (as opposed to the 25 and 26 of last season), 410 yards (357 and 266 last season), 29 first downs (19 and 21 last season), and went 7-14 on 3rd downs (2-8 and 3-10 last season), the 49ers must actually NOT have a very good defense after all. :eyeroll:

...dbs

It's funny because people here often say "You can't go off box scores" until of course, they want to use box scores.

It wasn't a pretty game from the Cardinals, you only have to look at 3/4's of the game thread for that. We had 10 points with less than 12 minutes to play and 7 of those came from a very short field due to an ST turnover. We were pretty poor offensively for 3 quarters and the game would have been over if not for a soft PI call after 3 really bad downs.

As a team, overall, we performed better, but ST's and defense took big steps forward while offense plateaued. Kyler had some really wayward throws and overall, the passing offense was poor. Kyler's aggressiveness rating via Next Gen Stats was the 3rd lowest of all QBs.

Because the whole point of Kliff + Kyler + Nuk + Fitz + Kirk + Drake is to have a GREAT offense which shouldn't have to worry about a great defense. If we have to play dink and dunk 5 yard football and keep everything underneath what does that say about the confidence in this offense? Do the Ravens or Chiefs go into games thinking they have to play ultra conservative 5 yard passes to win? Or do they think they can take on anyone with their game?

Anyway all this is by the by. I simply said I want to see more from the passing game. I'm not calling us garbage. But with this QB and these receivers we should all expect more than 5 yard throws, passes behind the LOS and screens. I'm perfectly willing to except it might just be game 1 rust or the game strategy and things will get better, but I can only comment on what we have seen so far.
 
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Krangodnzr

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Hmm, seems to me that even despite those massive downgrades :eyeroll: the 49ers were frequently expected to have the #1 defense / fantasy defense and almost UNIVERSALLY expected to be in the top 5 in the league this season. Examples:

#1 https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-rankings-ranking-all-32-defenses-ahead-of-the-2020-nfl-season
#1 https://www.sportingnews.com/us/fan...y-defense-rankings/11jifouzmnaze1photetto8k6d
#1 https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889653-power-ranking-every-nfl-defense-after-the-2020-draft
#3 https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-top-...hargers-bills-49ers-all-loaded-but-who-s-no-1
#4 https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2904031-ranking-the-nfls-top-7-defenses-heading-into-2020

But i guess since the Cardinals "only" put up 24 points (as opposed to the 25 and 26 of last season), 410 yards (357 and 266 last season), 29 first downs (19 and 21 last season), and went 7-14 on 3rd downs (2-8 and 3-10 last season), the 49ers must actually NOT have a very good defense after all. :eyeroll:

...dbs

Yeah total fake news. The Niners swarm to the ball and rarely give up the edge. They can get to the QB routinely with a 4 man rush.
 

Krangodnzr

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It's funny because people here often say "You can't go off box scores" until of course, they want to use box scores.

It wasn't a pretty game from the Cardinals, you only have to look at 3/4's of the game thread for that. We had 10 points with less than 12 minutes to play and 7 of those came from a very short field due to an ST turnover. We were pretty poor offensively for 3 quarters and the game would have been over if not for a soft PI call after 3 really bad downs.

As a team, overall, we performed better, but ST's and defense took big steps forward while offense plateaued. Kyler had some really wayward throws and overall, the passing offense was poor. Kyler's aggressiveness rating via Next Gen Stats was the 3rd lowest of all QBs.

Because the whole point of Kliff + Kyler + Nuk + Fitz + Kirk + Drake is to have a GREAT offense which shouldn't have to worry about a great defense. If we have to play dink and dunk 5 yard football and keep everything underneath what does that say about the confidence in this offense? Do the Ravens or Chiefs go into games thinking they have to play ultra conservative 5 yard passes to win? Or do they think they can take on anyone with their game?

Anyway all this is by the by. I simply said I want to see more from the passing game. I'm not calling us garbage. But with this QB and these receivers we should all expect more than 5 yard throws, passes behind the LOS and screens. I'm perfectly willing to except it might just be game 1 rust or the game strategy and things will get better, but I can only comment on what we have seen so far.

It's nice to have weapons, but you have to attack a team with what they give up. The Niners often play cover three, and try to funnel passes to the middle of the field where their aggressive LBs and Safeties clean things up. And they have an outstanding pass rush. The first three quarters, the pass rush was getting the Murray fairly regularly, or at least was forcing him to move. This also isn't factoring that they have good to outstanding cover men. Sherman has slowed down only a little, but he still has exceptional understanding of coverage techniques and leverage.

This is likely to be the toughest defense the Cardinals face all year long.
 

daves

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It wasn't a pretty game from the Cardinals, you only have to look at 3/4's of the game thread for that. We had 10 points with less than 12 minutes to play and 7 of those came from a very short field due to an ST turnover. We were pretty poor offensively for 3 quarters and the game would have been over if not for a soft PI call after 3 really bad downs. [....]

Because the whole point of Kliff + Kyler + Nuk + Fitz + Kirk + Drake is to have a GREAT offense which shouldn't have to worry about a great defense. If we have to play dink and dunk 5 yard football and keep everything underneath what does that say about the confidence in this offense? Do the Ravens or Chiefs go into games thinking they have to play ultra conservative 5 yard passes to win? Or do they think they can take on anyone with their game?

It's nice to have weapons, but you have to attack a team with what they give up. The Niners often play cover three, and try to funnel passes to the middle of the field where their aggressive LBs and Safeties clean things up. And they have an outstanding pass rush. The first three quarters, the pass rush was getting the Murray fairly regularly, or at least was forcing him to move. This also isn't factoring that they have good to outstanding cover men. Sherman has slowed down only a little, but he still has exceptional understanding of coverage techniques and leverage.

Exactly, @Krangthebrain. The Cardinals played the style they needed to play to have a chance to win. You don't get points for style. They played a low risk style that kept the game close for three quarters, then opened it up when they had to. Funny you mention the Chiefs: as i mentioned in another thread, the game unfolded a LOT like the Super Bowl. KC had 10 points half way through the 4th quarter! The Cards ended with better offensive stats in almost EVERY CATEGORY than the Chiefs.

KC vs. SF in the Super Bowl:
KC only had 10 points at half time, was down 10-20 at the end of the 3rd quarter, and ended up winning 31-20.
KC had 26 first downs (6-14 on 3rd downs, 2-3 on 4th) vs SF 21 (3-8, 0-1), 397 total yards to 351 (268-210 passing, 129-141 rushing), 33:13 time of possession.
Mahomes was 26-42-286-2-2 passing, sacked 4 times for -18 yards, 9-29 rushing.

AZ @ SF this week:
AZ only had 10 points at half time, was down 10-13 at the end of the 3rd, and ended up winning 24-20.
AZ had 29 first downs (7-14 on 3rd downs, 0-0 on 4th) vs SF 18 (2-11, 0-2), 410 total yards to 382 (230-259 passing, 180-123 rushing), 31:26 TOP.
Murray was 26-40-236-1-1 passing, sacked 2 times for -6 yards, 13-91 rushing.

After the Cards' goal-line stand in the 2nd quarter, AZ outgained SF 360-191 the rest of the way. In the 2nd half, AZ outgained SF 230-144 and had 18 first downs vs. 9.

Here's a bit more:
In the first half of the Super Bowl, KC was 1-6 on third downs, had 155 total yards including 33 rushing and 12-18-103 passing (5.7 yards/attempt, 8.6 yards/completion). Not exactly the high-flying offense for which they're known.

The 49ers lost 3 regular season games last year. In those losses, the Seahwaks scored 27 in OT (7 in the 1st half), the Ravens scored 20, and the Falcons (!) scored 29 (but only had 10 with 10 minutes to go). The Seahawks put up 336 total yards (24-34-189 net passing), that exciting Ravens O you mentioned racked up 283 (14-23-105 net passing!), and the Falcons 290 (25-35-201 net passing). Looks as though NONE of them won with a downfield passing game.

The winners all took what the 49ers gave them, and ALL averaged fewer net passing yards per completion than the Cardinals. The only teams that racked up a lot of passing yards and high yards per completion (12+) against the 49ers last season were the Saints (349 yards) and the Rams 2nd game (323). They lost. But boy did their offenses look good doing it!

...dave
 
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Gandhi

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Yea. Like it or not, its part of the game now.

I feel the same way, 5103. It doesn’t matter what we think about the rule, and it doesn’t matter how much we complain. It is here, and you get punished if you don’t learn to deal with it. So players better do just that.

Russ, I will give you, though, that I can understand that you have been annoyed with fouls like (I think) the second one. It seemed to me that the defender was doing what he could to avoid touching Murray.
 

BritCard

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Exactly, @Krangthebrain. The Cardinals played the style they needed to play to have a chance to win. You don't get points for style. They played a low risk style that kept the game close for three quarters, then opened it up when they had to. Funny you mention the Chiefs: as i mentioned in another thread, the game unfolded a LOT like the Super Bowl. KC had 10 points half way through the 4th quarter! The Cards ended with better offensive stats in almost EVERY CATEGORY than the Chiefs.



Here's a bit more:
In the first half of the Super Bowl, KC was 1-6 on third downs, had 155 total yards including 33 rushing and 12-18-103 passing (5.7 yards/attempt, 8.6 yards/completion). Not exactly the high-flying offense for which they're known.

The 49ers lost 3 regular season games last year. In those losses, the Seahwaks scored 27 in OT (7 in the 1st half), the Ravens scored 20, and the Falcons (!) scored 29 (but only had 10 with 10 minutes to go). The Seahawks put up 336 total yards (24-34-189 net passing), that exciting Ravens O you mentioned racked up 283 (14-23-105 net passing!), and the Falcons 290 (25-35-201 net passing). Looks as though NONE of them won with a downfield passing game.

The winners all took what the 49ers gave them, and ALL averaged fewer net passing yards per completion than the Cardinals. One team that racked up a lot of passing yards (349) and high yards per completion (>12) was the Saints. Oh also the Rams 2nd game (323) They lost. But boy did their offenses look good doing it!

...dave

Was the style of play they needed to play called garbage for 3 quarters?

Was Kyler throwing into the ground when attempting a pass part of the plan? Or missing a wide open Kirk by 2 yards? Or giving away 8 penalties?

A win doesn't wipe out all the bad. Yes we came back well, the D was better but for 3 quarters the play calling and execution were poor.

This was the same D we played last year and we scored from hitting Isabella in stride for a big TD. We scored from a deep shot to Kirk which drew PI at the 1 (and had a couple more PIs targeting Sherman over the top) and one of Kyler's best passes was hitting Cooper in stride between DBs.

And we had Nuk vs Mosley all game. Mosley is is no All Pro. We could have run Nuk on go routes all game and 99 times out of 100 Nuk will beat him.

That's not taking away from the win. And I'm happy to concede it might be rust but I think we all expected better from a largely continuity offense with the addition of a top 3 WR.

Lets hope that rust shakes off for next week.
 

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