Ayton sorta sucks

[Dr. Jones]

I won't argue with that. Doncic should have been the pick. It's these guys' jobs to pick the right guy.

Especially when they have the guy's European coach and don't listen to him. Sarver sucks..... this is pure Bill Bidwill. The 1988 vintage.

P.S. Last night's center dropped 30 on us.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Regarding Ayton based on my 3rd row viewing tonight - he doesn't suck. He is just isn't going to be as physical as a guy his size should be. It's frustrating but the signs were there at UofA and with his personality. But he runs the floor well, can switch on to smaller defenders, and body up larger players. If you want him to be Shaq it just ain't happening.

Best thing for him would be to stretch out his shot or play him with a true stretch 4 so he can rim run. The Baynes-Ayton lineups just don't work offensively from a spacing and/or playmaking standpoint.

Seriously...... Nothing has changed from college. Sarver, and the entire lot can kiss my ass. Phoenix loves PG's...... Loves the run and gun...... Had the dude's coach and here we are. Bent over Sarver's knee. #$%* that guy!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Seriously...... Nothing has changed from college. Sarver, and the entire lot can kiss my ass. Phoenix loves PG's...... Loves the run and gun...... Had the dude's coach and here we are. Bent over Sarver's knee. #$%* that guy!

It also needs to be said that in today's game in order to be a dominant big man you either have to a) be a playmaker than can handle the ball or b) effective from 3 point range. Twenty years ago Ayton is possibly a perennial All-Star when the rules and defenses were different.

Ayton was neither in college nor has the organization stressed developing his 3 point shot as a pro. Developing his jumper it's pretty obvious is an easier road for him than developing him as a ballhandler/playmaker so a ton if it is the front office not recognizing the realities of today's NBA as well as proper development. Bagley went #2 and also has not been that great.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Especially when they have the guy's European coach and don't listen to him. Sarver sucks..... this is pure Bill Bidwill. The 1988 vintage.

P.S. Last night's center dropped 30 on us.

I did not see anywhere where anyone said that Igor was pushing for Luka over Ayton. Did you just make that up or do you have a source?

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Regarding Ayton based on my 3rd row viewing tonight - he doesn't suck. He is just isn't going to be as physical as a guy his size should be. It's frustrating but the signs were there at UofA and with his personality. But he runs the floor well, can switch on to smaller defenders, and body up larger players. If you want him to be Shaq it just ain't happening.

Best thing for him would be to stretch out his shot or play him with a true stretch 4 so he can rim run. The Baynes-Ayton lineups just don't work offensively from a spacing and/or playmaking standpoint.

It is terrible on defense as well. Neither one really guards the paint nor really guards the three (Ayton better than Baynes on this). Wide open threes and wide open layups because the rotations suck. But hey, great mid-range defense!

 

[JCSunsfan]

It is terrible on defense as well. Neither one really guards the paint nor really guards the three (Ayton better than Baynes on this). Wide open threes and wide open layups because the rotations suck. But hey, great mid-range defense!

Something has happened with Baynes. He was the core of our defense at the beginning of the season.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Something has happened with Baynes. He was the core of our defense at the beginning of the season.

Maybe he's tired of no one else pitching in.

 

[Mainstreet]

I did not see anywhere where anyone said that Igor was pushing for Luka over Ayton. Did you just make that up or do you have a source?

There was a comment recently from Igor where he hinted he wanted Luka.

Matej Sportinfo‏ @Sportinfosi

Kokoskov on why the Suns didn't pick Doncic: "I can't answer that question because of professional code. But since you asked, all I'll say is, I'm sleeping peacefully." Igor obviously wanted Luka but the Suns front office had their mind made up and made that clear to Kokoskov.

11:39 AM - 5 Dec 2019

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Maybe he's tired of no one else pitching in.

Baynes is one of those guys who because he is animated and scowls a bunch people assume he's a good high-energy player. He's an enforcer type and can draw some charges but his overall defense isn't that great. Recovers slow, doesn't rim protect or have length to challenge shooters, and is too slow to stay in front of perimeter guys.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Baynes is one of those guys who because he is animated and scowls a bunch people assume he's a good high-energy player. He's an enforcer type and can draw some charges but his overall defense isn't that great. Recovers slow, doesn't rim protect or have length to challenge shooters, and is too slow to stay in front of perimeter guys.

The beginning stretch of the season, he seemed fantastic defensively.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Baynes is one of those guys who because he is animated and scowls a bunch people assume he's a good high-energy player. He's an enforcer type and can draw some charges but his overall defense isn't that great. Recovers slow, doesn't rim protect or have length to challenge shooters, and is too slow to stay in front of perimeter guys.

Right. He’s a try hard guy with limited physical ability. He’ll take charges and play physical but expecting him to be a superior defender is asking what he literally can’t do. Conversely Ayton has all the physical abilities but not the experience, knowledge or drive that baynes possesses. I’m sure baynes look at Ayton and wistfully dreams what if . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The beginning stretch of the season, he seemed fantastic defensively.

That was a result of his being a part of a greater scrambling effort-driven defense. He was a key cog for sure. But now that his surrounding cast has settled back closer to their norms his cog can’t produce alone.

 

[Dr. Jones]

There was a comment recently from Igor where he hinted he wanted Luka.

Matej Sportinfo‏ @Sportinfosi

Kokoskov on why the Suns didn't pick Doncic: "I can't answer that question because of professional code. But since you asked, all I'll say is, I'm sleeping peacefully." Igor obviously wanted Luka but the Suns front office had their mind made up and made that clear to Kokoskov.

11:39 AM - 5 Dec 2019

This was it @JCSunsfan




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jandaman]

Ayton should be a 20ppg 12rpg big man by now, had he not been suspended but more importantly... if the Suns friggin gives him 15+ shots. Currently he gets 13 shots a game, 3 to 4 of those shots off offensive boards, so he gets the ball about 10 times for a shot.

Towns got 18 shots a game and 37 minutes in his second year as the main option, Ayton is currently being used as 4th.

Some of it is his fault as he is too busy facilitating up top... BUT, a big but, that is as per coaching direction. Monty is trying to run a quick ball rotation and quick decision making and Ayton is the only one following it to the T.

They need to dedicate two quarters a game where Ayton gets a lot of touches down low. Its also a way to change the offense, as Suns offense has become predictable. If they double him, good... get a shooter to roam around to take advantage of it.



Defensively he is leading the league in DFG% in all zones... maybe minus the 6 feet and less zone but he is second there... Sure its small sample size regarding games, but the stats show 17+ FGs is shot around Ayton and only 5.5 of those shots go in, so his DFG% is around 36%, good for first.

So there are good bits, there bad bits which can be broken down to "his fault" and "not his fault"....

But giving up on him is DUMB.

He would be amazing on a team that sets up a lot of half court plays, imagine him in the Bucks or Spurs, maybe not the Bucks since they clear the key for Giannis, but any team where they use the big man down low and at high post.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton should be a 20ppg 12rpg big man by now, had he not been suspended but more importantly... if the Suns friggin gives him 15+ shots. Currently he gets 13 shots a game, 3 to 4 of those shots off offensive boards, so he gets the ball about 10 times for a shot.

Towns got 18 shots a game and 37 minutes in his second year as the main option, Ayton is currently being used as 4th.

Some of it is his fault as he is too busy facilitating up top... BUT, a big but, that is as per coaching direction. Monty is trying to run a quick ball rotation and quick decision making and Ayton is the only one following it to the T.

They need to dedicate two quarters a game where Ayton gets a lot of touches down low. Its also a way to change the offense, as Suns offense has become predictable. If they double him, good... get a shooter to roam around to take advantage of it.

Defensively he is leading the league in DFG% in all zones... maybe minus the 6 feet and less zone but he is second there... Sure its small sample size regarding games, but the stats show 17+ FGs is shot around Ayton and only 5.5 of those shots go in, so his DFG% is around 36%, good for first.

So there are good bits, there bad bits which can be broken down to "his fault" and "not his fault"....

But giving up on him is DUMB.

He would be amazing on a team that sets up a lot of half court plays, imagine him in the Bucks or Spurs, maybe not the Bucks since they clear the key for Giannis, but any team where they use the big man down low and at high post.

None of the scouting by professional predicted that he would be a 20/10 guy by now. I posted on another thread, despite his problems and lack of aggressiveness he is already top 10 in many categories as a center in the NBA. The offensive doesn't even flow through him as the center.

We do agree that if he is going to develop they NEED to run the offense through him for stretches.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Bump for the clown show today.

Ayton is an unprofessional clown who we never should have drafted.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Yesterday the #1 pick in the draft at one point was 4-15 against a squad of nobodies for 10 points, 6 rebounds, and fouled out.

Does this sound familiar?

 

[TJ]

Bump for the clown show today.

Ayton is an unprofessional clown who we never should have drafted.

Easy to be frustrated and disappointed at him today, but there’s a reason this thread had no posts for 7 months. He’ll be fine. Big offseason ahead
For him though

 

[Hoop Head]

Easy to be frustrated and disappointed at him today, but there’s a reason this thread had no posts for 7 months. He’ll be fine. Big offseason ahead
For him though

Yeah, the season was on hiatus.

 

[TJ]

Yeah, the season was on hiatus.

Not for about 3 or so months and there was plenty of bickering about everyone during the hiatus

 

[Bada0Bing]

I was only half joking in the game thread when I said he needs a babysitter. Maybe he needs some help managing his life.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Easy to be frustrated and disappointed at him today, but there’s a reason this thread had no posts for 7 months. He’ll be fine. Big offseason ahead
For him though

I am admittedly just venting that everyone on this board seems to care more about basketball then the "professional"

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I was only half joking in the game thread when I said he needs a babysitter. Maybe he needs some help managing his life.

He needs to grow up and act like a professional.

Add to this him saying on a podcast yesterday that he never watched game film until his suspension.

Nothing on his opponents, nothing on classic big men...nothing unless he was in it.

 

[BC867]

Easy to be frustrated and disappointed at him today, but there’s a reason this thread had no posts for 7 months. He’ll be fine. Big offseason ahead
For him though

I hope you're right . . . but it's going to take more than, "He'll be fine."

It is going to take strong coaching to convince Deandre to overcome
his inherent Bahamian passive personality on the court. And, evidently,
off the court.

Until we see differently, it's a dream. The only aggressive Suns team
we've ever seen was the Barkley team.

And a very short spurt of Maurice Lucas and Dennis Johnson, before
John MacLeod convinced Jerry to dump them, because he preferred
passive players who wouldn't challenge his unimaginative approach.

 

[Bada0Bing]

He needs to grow up and act like a professional.

Add to this him saying on a podcast yesterday that he never watched game film until his suspension.

Nothing on his opponents, nothing on classic big men...nothing unless he was in it.

I didn't know that. That's pathetic.