Orlando: Suns restart 2019-20 season

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Also here is a snippet from a non-pay article by Andrew Lopez of ESPN:


He has also been working with Suns assistant coach Mark Bryant on his shot-blocking. Ayton said he was trying to block "every shot" possible when he returned from his 25-game suspension for testing positive for a banned substance.

"Even on ball switches, I was trying my best to press up no matter what," Ayton said. "Every opportunity I had to show my defense because I know everybody is watching me. I tried to prove everybody wrong coming back. It was a big chip.

"Coach [Bryant] has been on my back about reading defense, shot-blocking with different hands, how to avoid contact and just blocking the shot, how to not send it out of bounds so we can have extra possessions, stuff like that."


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29401310/deandre-ayton-suns-welcome-doubters-playoff-chase

I realize it seems like I criticize everything he says, but what it boils down to for me is, he either says things extremely poorly on a regular basis or really is totally un-self-aware. For instance here, I wish he just wanted to be a good defender, period. But it seems his only motivation is to shut people up who criticize him. And while I understand that different people find motivation in different places, his motivation doesn’t seem sustainable. He’s apparently not doing it for himself (I want to be the best defender possible), but for others (I want to be a good enough defender to shut up my critics). As always I hope to be proven wrong.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I realize it seems like I criticize everything he says, but what it boils down to for me is, he either says things extremely poorly on a regular basis or really is totally un-self-aware. For instance here, I wish he just wanted to be a good defender, period. But it seems his only motivation is to shut people up who criticize him. And while I understand that different people find motivation in different places, his motivation doesn’t seem sustainable. He’s apparently not doing it for himself (I want to be the best defender possible), but for others (I want to be a good enough defender to shut up my critics). As always I hope to be proven wrong.

eh... even I find this to be a little bit of confirmation bias. I'm happy to hear a kid wanted to come out after embarrassing himself with the suspension wanting tho make a mark. I'm even happier to hear that he realized the error of his ways and is willing to learn more to better himself as a defender.

 

[Chaplin]

There's no doubt he's improved over the past year, so what's the issue here? That he's not improving quickly enough for people? I wish he could be Hakeem overnight, but that's not going to happen.

You basically turn off the noise and hope he shows improvement on the court. So far, he has.

 

[Mainstreet]

I realize it seems like I criticize everything he says, but what it boils down to for me is, he either says things extremely poorly on a regular basis or really is totally un-self-aware. For instance here, I wish he just wanted to be a good defender, period. But it seems his only motivation is to shut people up who criticize him. And while I understand that different people find motivation in different places, his motivation doesn’t seem sustainable. He’s apparently not doing it for himself (I want to be the best defender possible), but for others (I want to be a good enough defender to shut up my critics). As always I hope to be proven wrong.

Perhaps Ayton relates to basketball more as a student who is being taught the game. He didn't start playing basketball until 12 or so.

Many comments made by players his age are more contrived from years of practice. In some ways it's refreshing not to hear canned responses.

Would I like for Ayton to show more emotion on the court. You bet.

 

[Hoop Head]

There's no doubt he's improved over the past year, so what's the issue here? That he's not improving quickly enough for people? I wish he could be Hakeem overnight, but that's not going to happen.

You basically turn off the noise and hope he shows improvement on the court. So far, he has.

I think part of the issue is Doncic is a legit top 10 player already and was taken behind Ayton, with a good amount of people thinking the Suns should have selected Doncic over Ayton also. It's not that Ayton has been a huge disappointment, outside of his suspension, but he hasn't been the best player from his draft class and it doesn't appear that he will be either.

If you remove Luka from the draft class and only compared Ayton with Bagley, Jaren Jackson Jr, Trae Young, and others then I think he'd be talked about in a more positive light both locally and nationally. While some could argue Trae is the better player right now, it's hard to see him staying ahead of Ayton as they age and develop.

 

[Chaplin]

I think part of the issue is Doncic is a legit top 10 player already and was taken behind Ayton, with a good amount of people thinking the Suns should have selected Doncic over Ayton also. It's not that Ayton has been a huge disappointment, outside of his suspension, but he hasn't been the best player from his draft class and it doesn't appear that he will be either.

If you remove Luka from the draft class and only compared Ayton with Bagley, Jaren Jackson Jr, Trae Young, and others then I think he'd be talked about in a more positive light both locally and nationally. While some could argue Trae is the better player right now, it's hard to see him staying ahead of Ayton as they age and develop.

Trae Young is the more hyped player, sure, but is he REALLY better than Ayton? I think we'll disagree there. I think Ayton is clearly the 2nd best player in the class, but that's just me. Jaren Jackson Jr. might be the closest, not Trae Young.

That said, it's unfortunate that he will always be considered 2nd best when it comes to Doncic, however, I don't think he's far away from at least equalling the impact Doncic has made so far in his career. I also think there is a chance that Ayton can still surpass Luca, but it will be difficult and require improvement. Statistically, Ayton is among the best centers in the NBA. It's the external things, especially the non-winning, that affects how that is perceived nationally. Booker suffers from the same thing.

 

[SunnyBaller]

Trae Young is the more hyped player, sure, but is he REALLY better than Ayton? I think we'll disagree there. I think Ayton is clearly the 2nd best player in the class, but that's just me. Jaren Jackson Jr. might be the closest, not Trae Young.

That said, it's unfortunate that he will always be considered 2nd best when it comes to Doncic, however, I don't think he's far away from at least equalling the impact Doncic has made so far in his career. I also think there is a chance that Ayton can still surpass Luca, but it will be difficult and require improvement. Statistically, Ayton is among the best centers in the NBA. It's the external things, especially the non-winning, that affects how that is perceived nationally. Booker suffers from the same thing.

I also pick ayton over Trae and I don't even think it's that close. Trae will never be a good defender with his size and outside his shooting numbers he doesn't have much room to improve Ayton has all the physical to be elite on both sides. If ayton had the same attitude as Zion he'd be in mvp conversation and people would be debating the Luka ayton idea. Winning will change it too. If the sun's actually start winning while ayton is averaging 20+ 12+ then he'll be talked about as a star

 

[Hoop Head]

Trae Young is the more hyped player, sure, but is he REALLY better than Ayton? I think we'll disagree there. I think Ayton is clearly the 2nd best player in the class, but that's just me. Jaren Jackson Jr. might be the closest, not Trae Young.

That said, it's unfortunate that he will always be considered 2nd best when it comes to Doncic, however, I don't think he's far away from at least equalling the impact Doncic has made so far in his career. I also think there is a chance that Ayton can still surpass Luca, but it will be difficult and require improvement. Statistically, Ayton is among the best centers in the NBA. It's the external things, especially the non-winning, that affects how that is perceived nationally. Booker suffers from the same thing.

I think Trae had a better season than Ayton and since they're both in year 2, he is ahead of him on overall impact. I wouldn't choose Trae over Ayton, not at any point in the last 2 seasons, because I still believe Ayton will be the better player but Trae is already an All-Star who averaged 29 & 9 this year. Sure, he put those numbers up on a bad Hawks team but those numbers are also higher than anything Booker has averaged for an entire season and he's in his 5th year. I'd say Booker is the better player of the 2, Young and Devin, because Booker has been more consistent than both Trae and Ayton.

Part of what keeps Ayton behind Trae, IMO, is he hasn't looked like an All-Star for anymore than a 2-3 game stretch so far in his career and because of that I can't say he's #2 from his draft class at this point. Trae Young looked like a legit player for the last half of last season and looked like an All-Star PG for virtually this whole season, despite having a horrid supporting cast.

 

[Hoop Head]

ESPN Insider has a good piece on who the best sophomores are in the NBA right now with Luka taking the #1 spot for most of the conversation. They debate whether Shai or Trae is the better sophomore PG also. It's a good read, if you have ESPN+/Insider.


https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/st...ncic-trae-young-nba-sophomores-star-potential

 

[SunnyBaller]

I think Trae had a better season than Ayton and since they're both in year 2, he is ahead of him on overall impact. I wouldn't choose Trae over Ayton, not at any point in the last 2 seasons, because I still believe Ayton will be the better player but Trae is already an All-Star who averaged 29 & 9 this year. Sure, he put those numbers up on a bad Hawks team but those numbers are also higher than anything Booker has averaged for an entire season and he's in his 5th year. I'd say Booker is the better player of the 2, Young and Devin, because Booker has been more consistent than both Trae and Ayton.

Part of what keeps Ayton behind Trae, IMO, is he hasn't looked like an All-Star for anymore than a 2-3 game stretch so far in his career and because of that I can't say he's #2 from his draft class at this point. Trae Young looked like a legit player for the last half of last season and looked like an All-Star PG for virtually this whole season, despite having a horrid supporting cast.

You're points are fair but the reason aytons ahead for me is that as of right now treas stats don't contribute to winning basketball, his team is trash yes, but he is the point guard , he has the ball twice as much as ayton and his effect has led them to the top of the lottery odds. It's much harder for a center to create the impact a point guard does. Lukas team isn't that good either but his impact leads to wins

 

[Ronin]

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[Mainstreet]

Basketball is getting closer. Think July 23rd.

Here is the Suns exhibition schedule.

It's a shame the Suns don't have a realistic chance of making the playoffs.

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[Mainstreet]

This is for anyone needing a Suns fix this morning on the Solar Panel.

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[Mainstreet]

Lots of positive discussion on Deandre Ayton on the Solar Panel. It's worth the listen.

See link above.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here are the video links of the interview Mike Schmitz of ESPN did with Deandre Ayton.

The shorter version is listed first. Excellent stuff.

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Here are the video links of the interview Mike Schmitz of ESPN did with Deandre Ayton.

The shorter version is listed first. Excellent stuff.

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Thx for posting that. Ayton’s insight on defense was impressive to hear.

 

[Mainstreet]

Thx for posting that. Ayton’s insight on defense was impressive to hear.

I'm so pleased Ayton studies player's tendencies.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm so pleased Ayton studies player's tendencies.

Not only studies them, but understands them. I think some players can watch video until they’re blue in the face and listen to coaches and don’t pick up anything. Some make it a part of their arsenal.

 

[Yuma]

I think part of the issue is Doncic is a legit top 10 player already and was taken behind Ayton, with a good amount of people thinking the Suns should have selected Doncic over Ayton also. It's not that Ayton has been a huge disappointment, outside of his suspension, but he hasn't been the best player from his draft class and it doesn't appear that he will be either.

If you remove Luka from the draft class and only compared Ayton with Bagley, Jaren Jackson Jr, Trae Young, and others then I think he'd be talked about in a more positive light both locally and nationally. While some could argue Trae is the better player right now, it's hard to see him staying ahead of Ayton as they age and develop.

I think it cannot be dismissed also, the history of Phoenix. The franchise has been looking for a dominant center for 50 years. They finally get a first pick and low and behold there is a can't miss center there. There was no doubt in my mind that Ayton was our pick. People forget Doncic still had they mystery about him, and whether he could play athletically on the NBA. Everyone knew Doncic's mind and play making were there. I read up and listened to everything Doncic pre darft. I had no doubt he would be at least a good player, with the ability to be great. However, my thinking was a good big is better than a good smaller player. If we did not have Booker, maybe you take Doncic. You have Booker, so now you take the big, arguably.

I think the only thing wrong with Ayton is the style he plays is not what fans expected. Ayton is more a skilled and finesse player. To some extant fans expect Amare or Shaq attacking the hoop style of player. Ayton is putting up top NBA center numbers. I think fans are more disappointed in his style. You shouldn't argue the double doubles he puts up. I think people are expecting a different game. It's unfortunate, because he never played that style in college. We should not have expected that in the pros. To me he is going to be more of a Patrick Ewing, or at best a Hakeem Olajawon. Once fans realize he will not be an Amare or Shaq, and Phoenix starts to actually become playoff bound, I think the perception changes.

 

[Hoop Head]

Here are the video links of the interview Mike Schmitz of ESPN did with Deandre Ayton.

The shorter version is listed first. Excellent stuff.

As much as I wish he'd shutup and let his play do the talking, videos like this remind me that it'll never happen. He appears to be a media favorite because he's so talkative and social in how he carries himself. These videos help showcase his personality and give a little insight into who he is and so long as he's producing like he has, he'll be a favorite amongst those who cover the NBA. They'll continue to seek him out because they're guaranteed more than a sound byte, they'll probably get enough to turn into 2 or 3 written pieces, which is a weeks worth of writing for most analysts/commentator.

 

[Chaplin]

As much as I wish he'd shutup and let his play do the talking, videos like this remind me that it'll never happen. He appears to be a media favorite because he's so talkative and social in how he carries himself. These videos help showcase his personality and give a little insight into who he is and so long as he's producing like he has, he'll be a favorite amongst those who cover the NBA. They'll continue to seek him out because they're guaranteed more than a sound byte, they'll probably get enough to turn into 2 or 3 written pieces, which is a weeks worth of writing for most analysts/commentator.

Maybe I'm just confused, but this post appears to show that you don't like Ayton or think he will improve at all. The media likes him, sure. So? What does that matter? He HAS improved over his 2nd year, there is no denying that.

People keep concentrating on the noise and don't pay attention to what's right in front of them. That 40 minute piece was brilliant and does a real good job of showing his improvement. Again, I'm not sure why people think he's all of a sudden going to be Wilt Chamberlain after a year and a half.

 

[Mainstreet]

As much as I wish he'd shutup and let his play do the talking, videos like this remind me that it'll never happen. He appears to be a media favorite because he's so talkative and social in how he carries himself. These videos help showcase his personality and give a little insight into who he is and so long as he's producing like he has, he'll be a favorite amongst those who cover the NBA. They'll continue to seek him out because they're guaranteed more than a sound byte, they'll probably get enough to turn into 2 or 3 written pieces, which is a weeks worth of writing for most analysts/commentator.

As you note, Deandre is always going to provide a good interview because of his outgoing personality and honesty. At times his personality reminds me of a more amiable Charles Barkley. I believe Ayton is a good kid. Hopefully his play will someday match his talk. He has a naivete that will be always be loved or hated. A lot depends upon how he develops as a player.

 

[Hoop Head]

Maybe I'm just confused, but this post appears to show that you don't like Ayton or think he will improve at all. The media likes him, sure. So? What does that matter? He HAS improved over his 2nd year, there is no denying that.

People keep concentrating on the noise and don't pay attention to what's right in front of them. That 40 minute piece was brilliant and does a real good job of showing his improvement. Again, I'm not sure why people think he's all of a sudden going to be Wilt Chamberlain after a year and a half.

I do like Ayton quite a bit but like Ouchie I get frustrated hearing him talk a big game only to disappoint. Like earlier this year when he talked about how he was coming off his suspension with a vengeance and putting the league on notice but he came back as the same player that us Suns fans watched last season, for the most part. He was supposed to be the missing the piece that helped us get back to early season form but he wasn't, not even close, and that's on him setting unrealistic expectations for his return.

He has improved compared to last year, he seems to be playing a little smarter and also seems to have more gas in his tank but he hasn't changed that much or become the guy he talks about being, some dominant force that will run teams over.


It's largely his own fault that people are disappointed in his production. When he talks about dominating then we want to see him dominate, not put up the same stats he has all year. He is still putting up double doubles and almost 20 points a game, which is really good for a 2nd year big, but that isn't someone taking the league by storm like he claims he's going to do.

 

[Chaplin]

I do like Ayton quite a bit but like Ouchie I get frustrated hearing him talk a big game only to disappoint. Like earlier this year when he talked about how he was coming off his suspension with a vengeance and putting the league on notice but he came back as the same player that us Suns fans watched last season, for the most part. He was supposed to be the missing the piece that helped us get back to early season form but he wasn't, not even close, and that's on him setting unrealistic expectations for his return.

He has improved compared to last year, he seems to be playing a little smarter and also seems to have more gas in his tank but he hasn't changed that much or become the guy he talks about being, some dominant force that will run teams over.


It's largely his own fault that people are disappointed in his production. When he talks about dominating then we want to see him dominate, not put up the same stats he has all year. He is still putting up double doubles and almost 20 points a game, which is really good for a 2nd year big, but that isn't someone taking the league by storm like he claims he's going to do.

How is he disappointing? He's improved in year 2, and IMO, improved A LOT on the defensive end. That is a huge step for a center to make in his 2nd year, while also dealing with a 25-game suspension. I'm not sure what else you want at this point.

We live in an era that has already seen Shaq and Dwight Howard dominate the position. OF COURSE he's going to talk about wanting to be the next great center. I'd be more concerned if he didn't have at least a little bravado.

I just don't see the problem here. He's improving and that's what matters.

 

[Carolinacacti]

If the Suns are going to win any games in Orlando. Ayton needs to double his stats from the season. I'm still scratching my head about Kelly not playing.