Kyler - Year 2 improvement points

[KYCardFan]

I could list a ton of favorable attributes about Kyler Murray, arm strength, accuracy, touch, etc. but what will get him to the next level is the ability to stay in the pocket, move up in the pocket, and getting rid of the football on time in the pocket.

Too many times, last year, a clock went off in his head, and he bailed laterally left, right, or sometimes straight back. Nothing good comes out of those plays. By doing so, he shrinks the field on himself, throwing angles are out of whack.

Learning to throw a simple check down, 8 yeard curl or even a safe incompletion is this next step for him.

But he has to break the bail habit soon and get over the fear of stepping up into the pocket.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Running backwards when in a bad situation.

Id like to see him make more throws down the field when outside the pocket as well.

 

[AZ Native]

Former Cardinals Palmer, Warner see flaw in Kyler Murray’s rookie tape


https://arizonasports.com/story/230...er-warner-see-flaw-kyler-murrays-rookie-tape/

 

[bankybruce]

Former Cardinals Palmer, Warner see flaw in Kyler Murray’s rookie tape


https://arizonasports.com/story/230...er-warner-see-flaw-kyler-murrays-rookie-tape/

Me too! It was the team around him!!

 

[TaylorSwift]

Former Cardinals Palmer, Warner see flaw in Kyler Murray’s rookie tape


https://arizonasports.com/story/230...er-warner-see-flaw-kyler-murrays-rookie-tape/

Its insane how he put up 3700+ with the rawness he still has.

 

[Harry]

I respect these guys a great deal, but I continually mentioned no potential target was running a hot route last season. I’m not sure who they saw running curls but they weren’t on the side of the field Murray was running towards. I rarely saw a receiver break off his route and come back toward Murray to give him a favorable target. I’m not certain these didn’t ever occur, but they certainly weren’t routine as these quotes imply. This is more of a coaching and play design issue in my opinion.

 

[Proximo]

I could list a ton of favorable attributes about Kyler Murray, arm strength, accuracy, touch, etc. but what will get him to the next level is the ability to stay in the pocket, move up in the pocket, and getting rid of the football on time in the pocket.

Too many times, last year, a clock went off in his head, and he bailed laterally left, right, or sometimes straight back. Nothing good comes out of those plays. By doing so, he shrinks the field on himself, throwing angles are out of whack.

Learning to throw a simple check down, 8 yeard curl or even a safe incompletion is this next step for him.

But he has to break the bail habit soon and get over the fear of stepping up into the pocket.

I agree with you - but the reason he may not stay in the pocket is because he is short enough he has trouble seeing well from it.

I think that is probably also why he does not like to throw to the middle but instead favors throwing to the sidelines, because he can see them better.

Hope I am wrong, but I think he may never be a classic pocket QB, not that I think he cannot still be very successful.

 

[SoonerLou]

Former Cardinals Palmer, Warner see flaw in Kyler Murray’s rookie tape


https://arizonasports.com/story/230...er-warner-see-flaw-kyler-murrays-rookie-tape/

Been watching Game Pass/Coaches film lately

This is true. I dont know if its because of his height, lack of trust in Sweezy, Pugh, Shipley, but he would miss seeing wide open guys on tape. If he could just step up in the pocket it would be possible, but again I dont know if he just didnt trust it.

Right now his vision is very average. Obviously more experienced, but the thing that stands out about Lamar/Mahomes on tape is how outstanding their vision is.

 

[KYCardFan]

Bottom line He has to deliver the ball in the pocket in the middle of the field consistently in year 2

 

[SoonerLou]

I agree with you - but the reason he may not stay in the pocket is because he is short enough he has trouble seeing well from it.

I think that is probably also why he does not like to throw to the middle but instead favors throwing to the sidelines, because he can see them better.

Hope I am wrong, but I think he may never be a classic pocket QB, not that I think he cannot still be very successful.

Imo the best way to fix the habit and have him gain confidence was to fix the interior of the Oline. He has no real trust in those guys and to be honest I've seen the interior get whipped pretty good and his instincts helped to avoid a sack. Idk, the lack of experience in college + the interior doesnt allow for that I guess. Hopefully he improves in that area.

Bottom line He has to deliver the ball in the pocket in the middle of the field consistently in year 2

This...or otherwise adding Hopkins wont make as big of a difference as we hope.

 

[TJ]

Pocket presence is a major flaw in his game and needs to be corrected if he's to be an upper-echelon QB. He can really learn a lot by watching how Russell Wilson has shaped himself in the early part of his career.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Imo the best way to fix the habit and have him gain confidence was to fix the interior of the Oline. He has no real trust in those guys and to be honest I've seen the interior get whipped pretty good and his instincts helped to avoid a sack. Idk, the lack of experience in college + the interior doesnt allow for that I guess. Hopefully he improves in that area.

This...or otherwise adding Hopkins wont make as big of a difference as we hope.

Meh, he's as rookie who I believe hit the rookie wall about game 10 and then got his second wind around game 14. I think the game will slow down for him, we'll just have to wait and see if he can process information quick enough. I think he can and will. I also think he had a lot of pressure on his shoulder and was pressing too much the first few weeks.

 

[Stout]

I respect these guys a great deal, but I continually mentioned no potential target was running a hot route last season. I’m not sure who they saw running curls but they weren’t on the side of the field Murray was running towards. I rarely saw a receiver break off his route and come back toward Murray to give him a favorable target. I’m not certain these didn’t ever occur, but they certainly weren’t routine as these quotes imply. This is more of a coaching and play design issue in my opinion.

They might be talking about him running away from that possible easy target, though. I mean, he bailed a lot, so he might have been running away from guys that may have been coming back to him. For instance, if the play moves the pocket to the right and he gets in trouble, receivers on that side may naturally try to come back; if he then spins back five or more yards and irrationally scampers left instead, he won't have available receivers.

That's complete speculation and "what if" on my part, though. Yes, Kyler has significant improvement to make to become a great QB. Thankfully it should all be correctable. He's already shown significant progress as a rookie, especially with our crap OL. Unfortunately, I doubt we did enough to help in that respect. Our Center is...yeah, about that...

 

[Harry]

Sometimes when you’re watching a game you see a wide open receiver the QB doesn’t see. Teams have more than just the broadcast tape to examine. One camera, for example, targets sections of the defense that shows most of the coverage. I’ve been fortunate enough to see those films on occasion. It’s surprising how many times a QB does not throw to the most open receiver. Sometimes it’s vision, sometimes likely trust and other times the principal receivers are not the easiest throw. This is not to say Murray didn’t ignore some available receivers, it’s just more common to have open guys ignored than you’d think.

 

[Garthshort]

KM threw for about 3700 yards as a rookie. I just read about seven QB's (Peyton M, Cam, Winston, Mayfield, Luck, Kyler, and one I'm forgetting) and what they did as rookies and in their second year. And only Manning had a big jump in yards. Kyler's over/under for yards (according to article) was 39 something.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I feel pretty strongly that he gets to 4000 yards barring some unforeseen injury.

K2 will need to scheme up more shot plays and deeper routes though. Obviously pass protection will play a role but the dink and dunk percentage was a bit too high IMO last year.

 

[Proximo]

KM threw for about 3700 yards as a rookie. I just read about seven QB's (Peyton M, Cam, Winston, Mayfield, Luck, Kyler, and one I'm forgetting) and what they did as rookies and in their second year. And only Manning had a big jump in yards. Kyler's over/under for yards (according to article) was 39 something.

How many of them got a top 3 receiver added to their team in their second year though?

 

[Garthshort]

How many of them got a top 3 receiver added to their team in their second year though?

Good point. I have no idea.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah. I mean, everything points to Kyler being able to make spectacular plays at an astonishing rate. People forget that he threw the ball away more than any other QB in the NFL last year, and that he ran into more sacks than anyone last year.

The evidence suggests that Kyler just needs to become a more effective rhythm passer and decide that first down in the NFL is an area where you need to start positioning yourself for the rest of the series. In college, you could "waste" first downs because it's much easier to pick up 7 yards on second-and-10 or whatever.

 

[cardpa]

I read the article three times before posting to make sure I was understanding what Warner and Palmer were saying or at least what I thought they were saying.

I think they both believe Murray opts out of staying in the pocket before he need to. I think they are saying if he would stay in just a tad longer he would see these options but they come at a price and that is taking some type of hit right after making the throw and I don't think Murray likes to get hit, thus his habit of twisting backward to create space between him and the oncoming tackler.

I do remember reading a article that discussed the spacing Murray usually had in college and the typical spacing a QB sees in the NFL. What was interesting is that the difference between the space between the interior blockers Murray had in college and what was typical in the NFL was between 2-3 yds. with the NFL pocket being smaller and closer to the QB than what Murray had in college. I doubt I could find the article now, however it had several pictures which showed a typical pocket Murray had in college and what was considered a good pocket in the NFL and the NFL pocket was much tighter.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I agree with you - but the reason he may not stay in the pocket is because he is short enough he has trouble seeing well from it.

I think that is probably also why he does not like to throw to the middle but instead favors throwing to the sidelines, because he can see them better.

Hope I am wrong, but I think he may never be a classic pocket QB, not that I think he cannot still be very successful.

The pocket also collapsed about a second before it needed to at times. He needs to be able to trust his line better. This year I think he will.

He has to stop scrambling straight backwards as well.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Yeah. I mean, everything points to Kyler being able to make spectacular plays at an astonishing rate. People forget that he threw the ball away more than any other QB in the NFL last year, and that he ran into more sacks than anyone last year.

The evidence suggests that Kyler just needs to become a more effective rhythm passer and decide that first down in the NFL is an area where you need to start positioning yourself for the rest of the series. In college, you could "waste" first downs because it's much easier to pick up 7 yards on second-and-10 or whatever.

This... Palmer and Warner both agreeing with you in taking what the defense is giving you which should be a consistent free obvious completion towards getting a first
https://arizonasports.com/category/podcast_player/?a=375546

 

[slanidrac16]

I respect these guys a great deal, but I continually mentioned no potential target was running a hot route last season. I’m not sure who they saw running curls but they weren’t on the side of the field Murray was running towards. I rarely saw a receiver break off his route and come back toward Murray to give him a favorable target. I’m not certain these didn’t ever occur, but they certainly weren’t routine as these quotes imply. This is more of a coaching and play design issue in my opinion.

I know one time Kyler was chastising Johnson for not coming back to the ball.

 

[CFLredzoned]

Warner always said the same thing about Rosen. That he couldn't figure out what Rosen was seeing.

 

[Red Bird]

I could list a ton of favorable attributes about Kyler Murray, arm strength, accuracy, touch, etc. but what will get him to the next level is the ability to stay in the pocket, move up in the pocket, and getting rid of the football on time in the pocket.

Too many times, last year, a clock went off in his head, and he bailed laterally left, right, or sometimes straight back. Nothing good comes out of those plays. By doing so, he shrinks the field on himself, throwing angles are out of whack.

Learning to throw a simple check down, 8 yeard curl or even a safe incompletion is this next step for him.

But he has to break the bail habit soon and get over the fear of stepping up into the pocket.

The bail habit was starting to give me Kolb flashbacks. Luckily he’s much more athletic. Still, those are the habits that will get him hurt eventually. That ball needs to come out on time


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