Let's talk about Simmons

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How can you defend yourself by saying "You always liked him" on one hand but then continually disparage him with inaccurate or misleading stats on the other? Obviously you are trying to advocate for what you think the teams direction should be...... you just don't need to mislead the masses to prove your point.

The problem is..... You can't prove the point with tape for any of the OT prospects, and you can't prove it with measurables unless you try and prop up Becton or Wirfs. Two tackle prospects with obvious holes in their tape and college scheme.

Continuously disparage him? It's the first time I mentioned his name to my recollection.

I only mentioned one stat, and that was snaps played at each position. I saw figures of 72, someone else said 125. Does half a game really make a difference to the point?

I'm not trying to do anything except give my opinion on Simmons being overhyped. I think he's a top 15 player. I don't buy him as top 5. I wouldn't cry at #8. But people need to understand it's very much a projection at ILB.
 
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FYI I'd make all these same points about Mekhi Becton.

A guy who if he was 310lbs with the same tape wouldn't sniff the 1st round.
 

Finito

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FYI I'd make all these same points about Mekhi Becton.

A guy who if he was 310lbs with the same tape wouldn't sniff the 1st round.

Simmons tape and production AT CLEMSON doesn’t lie. Your trying to act like he’s a work out warrior who just popped up on the scene. He’s been mocked in the top 10 since before the combine.

just stop
 

Carolinacacti

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Some Mocks have him going to NY Giants but I think there GM Gettlemen will trade down. The Panthers are another team that might take Simmons. I really hope he drops to 8 and the Cardinals run to the podium.
 

Mainstreet

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For me, BPA is the highest rated player regardless of position and team.

I guess if there is a tie between the two players, it doesn't matter if a team drafts for need.

In the 2018 NBA draft, some thought Luka was the BPA and teams are still kicking themselves for passing on him. Fans argued where to play him. The answer was anywhere you want.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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For me, BPA is the highest rated player regardless of position and team.

I guess if there is a tie between the two players, it doesn't matter if a team drafts for need.

In the 2018 NBA draft, some thought Luka was the BPA and teams are still kicking themselves for passing on him.
Need will always be a factor in determining who to pick. It is generally used to decipher between prospects that are rated closely on their board. You would also use need to determine positions that you can completely eliminate. For instance I think it is fair to say that all of us would pass on a QB in this draft even if it was clearly the BPA. If we had 2 good starting OTs on long term contracts I would imagine the team wouldn't draft another one high in the draft even if they are the best prospect remaining.
 

Mainstreet

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Need will always be a factor in determining who to pick. It is generally used to decipher between prospects that are rated closely on their board. You would also use need to determine positions that you can completely eliminate. For instance I think it is fair to say that all of us would pass on a QB in this draft even if it was clearly the BPA. If we had 2 good starting OTs on long term contracts I would imagine the team wouldn't draft another one high in the draft even if they are the best prospect remaining.

Hypothetically, if there is a franchise quarterback available at #8, the Cardinals should still draft him although that doesn't appear to be the case in this draft. He could always be traded for a ransom.

In the later rounds BPA becomes more subjective. I think it's safer to draft for need then.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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Hypothetically, if there is a franchise quarterback available at #8, the Cardinals should still draft him although that doesn't appear to be the case in this draft. He could always be traded for a ransom.

In the later rounds BPA becomes more subjective. I think it's safer to draft for need then.
You might let a team trade up with you for a big return, but you certainly don't draft him and try to trade him later.
 

Mainstreet

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You might let a team trade up with you for a big return, but you certainly don't draft him and try to trade him later.

If you can get the right trade for sure but if it came down to BPA and there are no instant trade partners, I think a team should still do it. Of course we are talking about a hypothetical situation.
 

cardsunsfan

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I think this is a false dichotomy that rule changes have invalidated. Since the advent of the cap, virtually all teams look at their needs then considers the BPAs that fill those needs. Of course QB has never been part of this consideration. In this case, however, the Cards have so many needs virtually all positions could be considered need. So I think you take a player who makes the players around him better. That would be Simmons. The offense has to account for him on every play. He would add so much flexibility to the defense, he would make it tough on the offense and since that offense wouldn’t always know his intentions he would free the other players to be more aggressive. He would also have the ability to neutralize most TEs. It should be noted that the less your opponent scores the less pressure there is on your QB. This would give you more play calling flexibility on offense if you’re not always playing from behind. This guy is a game changer.

I’m okay, if Simmons is gone, with taking a top RT. However, my preference is still trading down. This is a gamble but there’s at least 6 players that should be there if the Cards drop down. All of whom would provide depth. They won’t all be gone by the Cards’ acquired pick. You can’t diminish the value of a mid to low second. This is a solid draft. That second pick would add key depth to another thin position. I wouldn’t go below 15, but the risk is minimal if you believe Humphries will work at LT. Next year’s draft has outstanding OTs. Murray at RT is adequate since KM is right handed. Murray may well get better and he’s already near average. If you ask KM, he’d rather have Lamb. That’s not hype, it’s confidence.


You need to have someone who wants to take your place now. I think less and less teams want to trade up and give up picks. I'd be for it but I doubt there would be many takers so the position we'd trade down to might be to far...
 

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You need to have someone who wants to take your place now. I think less and less teams want to trade up and give up picks. I'd be for it but I doubt there would be many takers so the position we'd trade down to might be to far...

Yeah, I don’t think 8 is as lucrative of a position this year. The three QBs should be gone by that point and that’s usually why Top 10 trades materialize, the quarterbacks. Unless someone falls in love with Jordan Love for whatever reason or the Eagles/Broncos fall in love with a wideout who they think will be gone affer the Jets and Raiders are through with them.
 

Harry

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Yeah, I don’t think 8 is as lucrative of a position this year. The three QBs should be gone by that point and that’s usually why Top 10 trades materialize, the quarterbacks. Unless someone falls in love with Jordan Love for whatever reason or the Eagles/Broncos fall in love with a wideout who they think will be gone affer the Jets and Raiders are through with them.
What often seems to happen is that most of the usual suspects are gone by 8, but someone covets one of the remains players; sees no comparable players available if he’s gone and greatly fears some other team wants him. It’s just the fun psychology of the draft. It’s even more fun if they overpay.
 

Veer

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Yeah, I don’t think 8 is as lucrative of a position this year. The three QBs should be gone by that point and that’s usually why Top 10 trades materialize, the quarterbacks. Unless someone falls in love with Jordan Love for whatever reason or the Eagles/Broncos fall in love with a wideout who they think will be gone affer the Jets and Raiders are through with them.
I actually think 8 is a great spot to be in this draft. 2 QBs are a lock to go before us. Actually 3 are very likely (Cincy, Miami, Chargers). Which leaves us to select a top 5 positional player in this draft. True blue chip prospect. Moving into the teens equals to selecting a class 1st round prospect, but no blue chip label. Getting a 2nd in return would help obviously. But I really like our options at 8.
 

Proximo

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I've seen that second play a ton this off season. His closing ability and length is going to cause a lot of fumbles IMO.

I just love this guy man.

I do too. I really think he is going to be selected before 8 though.
 

overseascardfan

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Simmons is arguably the best athlete in draft next to Becton and Wirfs but a guy I like that can be had in either 3rd or 4th round is Troy Dye. Dye was injured late in season (meniscus) so he couldn't participate at Combine or workouts but he is a 3 down LB who can cover like Simmons and can tackle. He and Simmons have nearly identical measurements (both 6'4 around 230 LBs). I think Simmons is off the board at #8 but if he is there with Wirfs or Okudah I would take either of them before Simmons.
 

FB94

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Simmons is arguably the best athlete in draft next to Becton and Wirfs but a guy I like that can be had in either 3rd or 4th round is Troy Dye. Dye was injured late in season (meniscus) so he couldn't participate at Combine or workouts but he is a 3 down LB who can cover like Simmons and can tackle. He and Simmons have nearly identical measurements (both 6'4 around 230 LBs). I think Simmons is off the board at #8 but if he is there with Wirfs or Okudah I would take either of them before Simmons.

I like Dye as well as a 3-4 round LB.
 

Finito

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Simmons is arguably the best athlete in draft next to Becton and Wirfs but a guy I like that can be had in either 3rd or 4th round is Troy Dye. Dye was injured late in season (meniscus) so he couldn't participate at Combine or workouts but he is a 3 down LB who can cover like Simmons and can tackle. He and Simmons have nearly identical measurements (both 6'4 around 230 LBs). I think Simmons is off the board at #8 but if he is there with Wirfs or Okudah I would take either of them before Simmons.

kareem Martin had the same measurable as Jadaveon Clowney.
 

juza76

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If there is a single player non a qb that can drastically improve a unit, that player is Simmons
 

juza76

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As far as our team or in general?

Specifically our team
We couldn't contain on the outside cause the lack of speed
We couldn't cover anyone in the middle of the field
We allowed many third down conversions
Best qb's right now can make plays with their feet too, so having a spy with that speed is very important
 
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