Clippers @ Suns Wednesday game thread 2-26-20

[BC867]

Yes, they’re a good team, but this was a winnable game. Booker played like crap and open shots weren’t falling

Eddie said, at one point, that Devin wasn't showing the usual effects of playing
after participating in the All Star 3-point contest because he made a few shots.

Then . . . Devin was showing the usual effects of playing after participating in
the All Star 3-point contest.

The Suns are not going to the playoffs, just as the past decade. Perhaps the
highlight of the season is Book in the 3-point contest as well as being an
injury replacement in the All Star game. We can't have our cake and it eat, too.

 

[JerkFace]

Suns did pay Tyler Johnson $19 million this season before they waived him but why not kick the tires on another player. Jonah Bolden was only here for three games. Adding a backup point guard should not be too difficult.

I wonder if they are waiting until they get more info on Oubre’s knee before filling the roster spot. If he is going to be out an extended period of time they may be more apt to try to sign another wing.

 

[Yuma]

Not really. His good games easily prove his worth - but his bad games, and they are many, call his value into question. If he's effective, we probably win tonight but if he plays like he did in probably 20+ games this season, we might have lost by even more.

He has been way more consistentally gppd this season than bad. I know we will have Rubio, Ayton, Oubre, Booker, Bridges and the two rookies next season. It will be intersting to see how they fill in around those guys.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He has been way more consistentally gppd this season than bad. I know we will have Rubio, Ayton, Oubre, Booker, Bridges and the two rookies next season. It will be intersting to see how they fill in around those guys.

Yeah we're going to gave to agree to disagree. I think he's been a good player (maybe) a little more often than not but no way has he been good "way more" often. He wouldn't have a league average PER of 15 if that were the case and his on/off numbers would look a lot better. And IMO he's not like Bridges where his PER fails to reflect his impact, Kelly doesn't really do all the little things like Mikal does.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Couldn’t watch the game last night and I just read the game thread. All kinds of ripping on Ayton, then I read the box score and he has 25, 17, and 3 blocks on 50% shooting.

Scratching my head on that one.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Couldn’t watch the game last night and I just read the game thread. All kinds of ripping on Ayton, then I read the box score and he has 25, 17, and 3 blocks on 50% shooting.

Scratching my head on that one.

If I were to give a motive it would be that the 25 came so easily and then he started fumbling passes and rebounds. While everyone else had a relatively poor night and/or were being guarded by DPOY-type players, Ayton needed to do more to keep it close. Not just on him, of course, but within the stream of the game it is aggravating to see how many passes he fumbles, or rebounds he brings down to his waist for players to grab away, etc.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wonder if they are waiting until they get more info on Oubre’s knee before filling the roster spot. If he is going to be out an extended period of time they may be more apt to try to sign another wing.

It's hard to know the thinking of the Suns front office. Bolden was brought in and released before Oubre's injury so that was not a factor. If I were to guess, I think the Suns are waiting on a specific player to be released. Whether Oubre's injury changes that, I don't know.

 

[Chaplin]

Couldn’t watch the game last night and I just read the game thread. All kinds of ripping on Ayton, then I read the box score and he has 25, 17, and 3 blocks on 50% shooting.

Scratching my head on that one.

You are? You read this board every day. You're really scratching your head?

 

[Proximo]

Couldn’t watch the game last night and I just read the game thread. All kinds of ripping on Ayton, then I read the box score and he has 25, 17, and 3 blocks on 50% shooting.

Scratching my head on that one.

Well, it's the turnovers he had, and his inability to take full advantage of what he could have done that is frustrating people.

I don't blame him for the loss at all, it was everyone else not being able to make a 3, and Booker just being terrible in general that lost us the game.

 

[Mainstreet]

Couldn’t watch the game last night and I just read the game thread. All kinds of ripping on Ayton, then I read the box score and he has 25, 17, and 3 blocks on 50% shooting.

Scratching my head on that one.

I know exactly what you mean.

The Suns problems is not their core players (Bridges, Oubre, Ayton, Booker and Rubio) it's the lack of talent that surrounds them. The Suns need more talent, not less. They need a bench.

The attitude of let's blame a player is getting old specifically blaming Ayton and Oubre for the Suns woes.

 

[Mainstreet]

Did someone even imply otherwise? We know we need Oubre, that doesn't mean we don't need him to be better.

Yeah, they did. Who doesn't need to be better?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If I were to give a motive it would be that the 25 came so easily and then he started fumbling passes and rebounds. While everyone else had a relatively poor night and/or were being guarded by DOPY-type players, Ayton needed to do more to keep it close. Not just on him, of course, but within the stream of the game it is aggravating to see how many passes he fumbles, or rebounds he brings down to his waist for players to grab away, etc.

Agreed. Ayton was our best player last night and kept us in it early. But only by watching can you see the individual plays that are frustrating.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, they did. Who doesn't need to be better?

I must have missed it, the critical posts I've read have been hopeful rather than overly negative.

Obviously we all WANT everyone to be better but it's a real problem for us long term if that doesn't happen for Kelly. He is our 3rd most talented player and as such we can't afford such huge swings in effectiveness.

I really don't like the idea of moving him into a bench role as we have no real weapon to put next to Booker to share the defensive attention but it's going to come if his play continues as such (IMO). Well, maybe it won't happen if we find another strong player to put out there and Kelly accepts being the 4th or 5th best starter but if that happens, he's already overpaid (again, IMO).

 

[Cheesebeef]

Eddie said, at one point, that Devin wasn't showing the usual effects of playing
after participating in the All Star 3-point contest because he made a few shots.

Then . . . Devin was showing the usual effects of playing after participating in
the All Star 3-point contest.

The Suns are not going to the playoffs, just as the past decade. Perhaps the
highlight of the season is Book in the 3-point contest as well as being an
injury replacement in the All Star game. We can't have our cake and it eat, too.

ridiculous self-fulfilling prophecy. Booker hasn't played at a high level since he got "snubbed" BEFORE the All-Star game. Not to mention, you didn't say jack squat about him shooting 7-14 from 3 the previous 2 games.

stop making up narratives and then forcing "facts" into reality to fit it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I must have missed it, the critical posts I've read have been hopeful rather than overly negative.

Obviously we all WANT everyone to be better but it's a real problem for us long term if that doesn't happen for Kelly. He is our 3rd most talented player and as such we can't afford such huge swings in effectiveness.

I really don't like the idea of moving him into a bench role as we have no real weapon to put next to Booker to share the defensive attention but it's going to come if his play continues as such (IMO). Well, maybe it won't happen if we find another strong player to put out there and Kelly accepts being the 4th or 5th best starter but if that happens, he's already overpaid (again, IMO).

I could quote you but it would take too long.

The game threads for the Jazz and Clippers contain these comments. What you do is give Oubre a positive stroke and then tear him down.

Here is one example but there are many more:

We do need a high energy player like Oubre that makes things happen. But I'm not sure his game will ever mature the way we need it to and if it doesn't, I don't think he'll be part of our future. He seems like a great teammate but his play is incredibly selfish and as such he hurts us in ways that don't show up in the stats (other than maybe on/off numbers).

Kelly can be such a positive force at times but he's a lot like Josh Jackson when he's not having a great game. Hopefully Monty will eventually be able to rein him in but I don't believe the current version of Oubre would even see court time if he were playing for someone like Pop.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/suns-jazz-monday-game-thread-2-24-20.342619/page-9

 

[AzStevenCal]

I could quote you but it would take too long.

The game threads for the Jazz and Clippers contain these comments. What you do is give Oubre a positive stroke and then tear him down.

Here is one example but there are many more:



https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/suns-jazz-monday-game-thread-2-24-20.342619/page-9

Quote me all you like, I know how I feel about Oubre and it's a lot more hopeful and positive than it is negative. You make it sound like I posted one of those "I love this guy but he sucks in every way" comments. And not that it matters but yes, it was in the game thread but I waited until the game was over so it wouldn't wear anyone down while they were still trying to watch the action.

 

[gimpy]

Looking at the box score, I see Ayton shot a three. Was it close? Or???

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Agreed. Ayton was our best player last night and kept us in it early. But only by watching can you see the individual plays that are frustrating.

Name a 21-year-old player that does not often make frustrating plays.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Name a 21-year-old player that does not often make frustrating plays.

It's not your typical situation though. One quarter he's out there looking like an upgrade to Hakeem Olajuwon and the next period he's being shut down by Kevin Hart's smaller brother. Still, the kid is special so I'll just enjoy watching him grow into whatever he's going to become. He's probably already the best center we've ever had but that's far too low of a bar for someone with his ability and physical gifts.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's not your typical situation though. One quarter he's out there looking like an upgrade to Hakeem Olajuwon and the next period he's being shut down by Kevin Hart's smaller brother. Still, the kid is special so I'll just enjoy watching him grow into whatever he's going to become. He's probably already the best center we've ever had but that's far too low of a bar for someone with his ability and physical gifts.

this. the wild swings within games are just a head scratcher. I don't see that with the other shooting star 21 year old and unders like Doncic, Zion, Tatum and even Morant.

 

[gimpy]

Ayton for some love today on Espn's the NBA Jump.

They were talking a little about his numbers, 22 points per game and 13 rebounds per game for February, but also how they liked his defensive progress this year

 

[Hoop Head]

Ayton for some love today on Espn's the NBA Jump.

They were talking a little about his numbers, 22 points per game and 13 rebounds per game for February, but also how they liked his defensive progress this year

He was also trending on Twitter last night after the game, most was really positive. You could spot the Suns fan though by seeing the compliments or praise he was receiving being a bit more measured. Sure 25 & 17 looks great but his play throughout didn't look like a guy putting up 25 & 17. If he gets his head on right and becomes more aggressive, there won't be any stopping him.

I understand the frustration because what he's giving should be enough but unless it results in a W, it's not enough and it's also not all he could give.

 

[BC867]

ridiculous self-fulfilling prophecy. Booker hasn't played at a high level since he got "snubbed" BEFORE the All-Star game. Not to mention, you didn't say jack squat about him shooting 7-14 from 3 the previous 2 games.

stop making up narratives and then forcing "facts" into reality to fit it.

I would expect that you're aware of players previously having problems following the forced pace of the
All Star 3-point contest in the past.

Cool the "self-fulfilling prophecy" crap, Cheese. I didn't make anything up.

Motivated by EJ's comment about it, followed by Book turning cold (as I posted), I shared the possibility.

Since when are we afraid to share (especially when quoting) possibilities? If you don't want to consider it, fine.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I would expect that you're aware of players previously having problems following the forced pace of the
All Star 3-point contest in the past.

again, BOOK TURNED COLD BEFORE THE ALL-STAR BREAK. And then he was 7-14 from 3 in his previous two games before last night. Both of those things counter the above self-fulfilling prophecy stuff you're spouting.

Cool the "self-fulfilling prophecy" crap, Cheese. I didn't make anything up.

you did here by omitting Book's below average shooting prior to the break and two very good games shooting the 3 after it.

Motivated by EJ's comment about it, followed by Book turning cold (as I posted), I shared the possibility.

and then ignored all other relative data and brought it up in ONE game where he shot like absolute crap post-break.

Since when are we afraid to share (especially when quoting) possibilities? If you don't want to consider it, fine.

I don't know why "you're afraid to share" anything, but when you share something that ignores facts and reason, you should also be prepared for people to counter against your argument... or lack thereof.

 

[elindholm]

Looking at the box score, I see Ayton shot a three. Was it close? Or???

It was at the very end, when the Suns were looking for a miracle. It was right after a timeout, but I couldn't tell whether it was a set play. Top of the circle, not particularly close to going in, but the form looked fine.