Suns @ Bulls Saturday game thread 2-22-20

[Bobster]

It was before my time but the Suns with Kareem would’ve been a 70’s dynasty. They already had Van Arsdale and Goodrich in their prime and Phoenix was close enough to LA that he wouldn’t have felt the need to leave like Milwaukee.

Idk if the Suns would’ve still got Connie Hawkins if they had Kareem but that team would’ve been GOAT worthy.

No, they got the rights to Hawkins in a coin flip with Seattle after loosing the coin flip for Lew Alcindor. So the "Booby Prize" was actually Walk and Hawkins.

 

[Mainstreet]

I stopped watching at the half and just finished the game now. First half was awful, but they did a great job in the second half. Ayton was a walking turnover in the first half, but he really did an amazing job in the second half. Suns need a backup point guard, and they need him today. Okobo is bad, Jerome is awful, and Carter plays defense, so he might be a good third point guard, but once Rubio goes to the bench, the team just looks terrible. For as much crap as we give Rubio, he is a solid point guard- an average point guard that makes average point guard money. Suns just need some competence behind him.

Hoping for Trey Burke if he is still available. Bolden's 10-day contract reportedly ran out yesterday.

Nothing against Bolden (I would lke to keep him) but backup point guard is in bad shape as you point out.

 

[GatorAZ]

No, they got the rights to Hawkins in a coin flip with Seattle after loosing the coin flip for Lew Alcindor. So the "Booby Prize" was actually Walk and Hawkins.

Why did losing coin flip for Kareem guarantee them winning the coin flip for Hawkins? Couldn’t they have had both, or neither?

 

[Yuma]

Did you think Tm Chambers was a big man? He got stripped constantly. It drove me nuts.

I am talking Centers.

 

[Bobster]

Why did losing coin flip for Kareem guarantee them winning the coin flip for Hawkins? Couldn’t they have had both, or neither?

Hawkins was coming in to the league as a free agent after settling his lawsuit against the NBA and the league saw him as a franchise player (based on his play in the ABA), so they held a coin flip for him between the two worst teams other than Milwaukee, who had already won the coin flip for Alcindor (this happened in June of 1969, about three months after the NBA Draft had taken place). And as I mentioned, they won the coin flip with Seattle, so yes, could could have just come away with just Neal Walk (Seattle came away with just Lucius Allen).

 

[mjb21aztd]

Glad to wake up and see the suns won! Atleast suns beat warriors and bulls

Good to see ayton and booker with good gms

Hoping to see a mini win streak by suns be a good way to close season coming up

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am talking Centers.

Different people think different things when using the term “big man” so I wanted to clarify what you were thinking.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hawkins was coming in to the league as a free agent after settling his lawsuit against the NBA and the league saw him as a franchise player (based on his play in the ABA), so they held a coin flip for him between the two worst teams other than Milwaukee, who had already won the coin flip for Alcindor (this happened in June of 1969, about three months after the NBA Draft had taken place). And as I mentioned, they won the coin flip with Seattle, so yes, could could have just come away with just Neal Walk (Seattle came away with just Lucius Allen).

If you have not read Connie Hawkins life story, I would recommend it. I think the book is called FOUL: THE CONNIE HAWKINS STORY.

 

[Bobster]

If you have not read Connie Hawkins life story, I would recommend it. I think the book is called FOUL: THE CONNIE HAWKINS STORY.

Thanks, I think I first read that around 1980 or so.

Hawkins became eligible for the draft in 1964, but the NBA blackballed him and a handful of other players (including Doug Moe of North Carolina, Roger Brown of Dayton and Tony Jackson of St. John's) who were questioned in the betting scandals back in 1961 while Hawkins was a freshman at Iowa. Hawkins played a year and a half in the old American Basketball League in 1961-62 & 1962-63 until that league went belly-up and then played a couple years with the Globetrotters. Eventually he signed with Pittsburgh of the ABA and filed an anti-trust suit against the NBA and as part of his settlement of that suit he was admitted to the league with his rights awarded to the Suns.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Thanks, I think I first read that around 1980 or so.

Hawkins became eligible for the draft in 1964, but the NBA blackballed him and a handful of other players (including Doug Moe of North Carolina, Roger Brown of Dayton and Tony Jackson of St. John's) who were questioned in the betting scandals back in 1961 while Hawkins was a freshman at Iowa. Hawkins played a year and a half in the old American Basketball League in 1961-62 & 1962-63 until that league went belly-up and then played a couple years with the Globetrotters. Eventually he signed with Pittsburgh of the ABA and filed an anti-trust suit against the NBA and as part of his settlement of that suit he was admitted to the league with his rights awarded to the Suns.

I assumed you had, I was making the recommendation more for the board as a whole. I think I read it in the late 70's.

 

[Bobster]

I assumed you had, I was making the recommendation more for the board as a whole. I think I read it in the late 70's.

LOOSE BALLS by Terry Pluto has some details on his ABA career and ABE SAPERSTEIN AND THE AMERICAN BASKETBALL LEAGUE 1960-63 by Murry R. Nelson has plenty on his ABL career. I'd recommend them both. (I think LOOSE BALLS and BREAKS OF THE GAME are probably the two best basketball books that I've read)

 

[BC867]

I wouldn't describe Adams as "soft". "Finesse"? Yes. "Soft"? No.

Adams was a terrific player - he had a nice shooting touch, could score , rebound, pass, block shots, defend - but he was limited by two things: he was injury prone because he was always giving up about 40-50 lbs every night to whoever he was guarding, and he was in a system (John MacLeod's) where the starter's minutes were really limited.

On 2/22/1977 against Buffalo Adams had probably the greatest statistical night ever by a Sun - 47 points, 18 rebounds, 12 assists, 5 blk, 18/27 FG, 11/12 FT

Adams' presence on the Suns and tying up the Center position (although, as you say, giving up about 40-50 lbs every night to whomever he was guarding -- which is
a bit of an exaggeration) reflects what was akin to nepotism. Head Coach John MacLeod was his college coach. And stubbornly kept him at Center, forcing our Power
Forwards to be de-facto Center for a decade. It weakened the Suns at both power positions.

And, BTW, one game does not a season or career make. Especially matching up with another Center playing as far from the basket -- Bob McAdoo on Buffalo.

As I mentioned, Adams' first season (until opponents caught on to him) was his best statistical season. He never again reached those stats. He was not a
difference maker in the outcome of games.

 

[Bobster]

Adams' presence on the Suns and tying up the Center position (although, as you say, giving up about 40-50 lbs every night to whomever he was guarding -- which is
a bit of an exaggeration) reflects what was akin to nepotism. Head Coach John MacLeod was his college coach. And stubbornly kept him at Center, forcing our Power
Forwards to be de-facto Center for a decade. It weakened the Suns at both power positions.

And, BTW, one game does not a season or career make. Especially matching up with another Center playing as far from the basket -- Bob McAdoo on Buffalo.

As I mentioned, Adams' first season (until opponents caught on to him) was his best statistical season. He never again reached those stats. He was not a
difference maker in the outcome of games.

We're going to have to agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[Yuma]

If you have not read Connie Hawkins life story, I would recommend it. I think the book is called FOUL: THE CONNIE HAWKINS STORY.

I read that book twice. It was very sad.

 

[Superbone]

I read that book twice. It was very sad.

I read it back in the day. Well written but too bad Hawkins couldn't join the NBA until after his prime.

 

[Mainstreet]

Also I think Joe Caldwell got the short end of the stick as well. I couldn't locate a book about him but I found this link.

https://victoryjournal.com/stories/jumpin-joe/

 

[AzStevenCal]

Also I think Joe Caldwell got the short end of the stick as well. I couldn't locate a book about him but I found this link.

https://victoryjournal.com/stories/jumpin-joe/

I wouldn't compare the two situations too closely. The Hawk was screwed, royally. I've heard enough stories about Joe to believe he was his own worst enemy at the worst of times. I don't doubt there was racism involved but it seemed to me that every time something went wrong for him, it was always the other guy's fault. In life, that is rarely true, although I'll admit I'm seeing it through the eyes of a man that's never had to deal with the things he had to put up with.