Kenyan Drake giving it to Mitch

[Solar7]

In comparison to the year prior? That season was 1000 times worse.

2018 was like taking a low quality steak and burning it before serving.
2019 was like taking a low quality steak and cooking it medium - it still isn't good.

I don't care how bad we were in 2018 compared to 2019.

I feel like you are fighting a battle nobody else is waging.

I don't think anybody here is saying that Drake is a top 10 RB in the league and should get $10m+. But also he's not the scrub that only played well in a few games that you are making him out to be. I feel like you are being selective and twisting data to try prove a point nobody would argue with.

That point being that Drake is a decent running back that could get you 1100 yards rushing at 4.6 YPC and 300 yards receiving over a season, which for Kliff's pass favoring offense would be more than adequate. He's a Philips Lindsay, Sony Michel, Tevin Coleman level running back and is worth somewhere in the region of $5 to $6m a year.

I feel like you are arguing that he's not a great back thats worth big money when nobody is saying he is.

I feel like the people who are taking his "projection" are being selective and twisting data - because my data set is his 62 game career, which no one else is willing to look at.

There's some who are calling him a "perfect fit" for this offense, or mention that he broke it open, or some variant of that. Those are the people I'm really pushing back against.

The fact of the matter is that we can't afford to be paying "decent" running backs and locking them into our roster for three to four years - just like with your DJ Humphries argument - especially when we have a ton of money dumped into the position with David Johnson, and a litany of holes at positions where we don't even have backups, much less starters.

At the end of the day, my concern is that we sign Drake and he puts up like 500 yards rushing because now he's gotten paid and doesn't care. And then we're sitting in the year where Kyler Murray should be primed for a playoff run but we're committed to a mediocre starter in Drake.

 

[imaCafan]

Can’t Remember where I saw it, but they had predictions where in the top running backs would go and how much they would sign for. They had Gordon that around 4 years $43 million.They had drake at three years $17 million. Fair price?

 

[slanidrac16]

No, I don't. Lots of people who post here are uncomfortable feeling bad about the team. I used to be one. Keim has broken my spirit, though. Up until last year, I'd have shouted to the world that guys like Drake were really super great and they just didn't watch the team or understand. I thought Wilks might not be wonderful, but we still had a decent roster and he had put together some decent teams in Carolina. I was woefully wrong.

I couldn't disagree more with our course correction, and it's yet to prove anything. In March I could potentially feel a lot better, but today I'm still stuck on how bad this team was.

Ahhh. So you thought Wills might be wonderful and you were...gulp...wrong. So going forward you are going to take the low road on any decisions. You’re going to question every move. You’re going to doubt anything might be good.

That’s not really being objective. That’s flat out being pessimistic. You thought Wilks would be good and he wasn’t. Had Wilks and Rosen been retained most of us would have been disgusted. But we moved on. Changed our head coach and drafted our qbof. We went from the worst team in the league to the eighth worst team in the league. That’s not good enough for you. So it’s instant gratification or failure.

We probably won’t be in the playoffs in 2020 so brace yourself. Nevermind you’ve already have.

You state the roster has too many holes. You state we are in a very tough division. That’s where you are right. The difference between you and I is I watch this team go from the bottom rung of the latter and move up a quarter of the way. I saw this team play the super bowl losers tooth and nail. I saw this team go to the east coast and win. I watched this team beat the Seahawks. Most important I saw a team that never quit. I see progress. You see inevitable failure.

I slumped in my chair when we hired Wilks. Turns out I was right and you were wrong. I was excited when we hired Kingsbury. You obviously were not.

There is a 50/50 chance you are wrong again. Wait. That can’t be possible, can it. I’m through debating you. It’s like I’m trying to convince you to be optimistic. I will not ignore you but I can just about guarantee every thread you start or respond to will be Debbie downer. I’m not being blindly optimistic. I have my doubts about whether or not we will make all the right moves. I choose to think we CAN, where as you believe we won’t.

You say you may feel different in March? No you won’t. I think there’s a better chance the Cardinals will make the playoffs.

 

[slanidrac16]

Can’t Remember where I saw it, but they had predictions where in the top running backs would go and how much they would sign for. They had Gordon that around 4 years $43 million.They had drake at three years $17 million. Fair price?

Can’t Remember where I saw it, but they had predictions where in the top running backs would go and how much they would sign for. They had Gordon that around 4 years $43 million.They had drake at three years $17 million. Fair price?

I think so but Solar wouldn’t sign him for 2m.

 

[BritCard]

2018 was like taking a low quality steak and burning it before serving.
2019 was like taking a low quality steak and cooking it medium - it still isn't good.

I don't care how bad we were in 2018 compared to 2019.


I feel like the people who are taking his "projection" are being selective and twisting data - because my data set is his 62 game career, which no one else is willing to look at.

There's some who are calling him a "perfect fit" for this offense, or mention that he broke it open, or some variant of that. Those are the people I'm really pushing back against.

The fact of the matter is that we can't afford to be paying "decent" running backs and locking them into our roster for three to four years - just like with your DJ Humphries argument - especially when we have a ton of money dumped into the position with David Johnson, and a litany of holes at positions where we don't even have backups, much less starters.

At the end of the day, my concern is that we sign Drake and he puts up like 500 yards rushing because now he's gotten paid and doesn't care. And then we're sitting in the year where Kyler Murray should be primed for a playoff run but we're committed to a mediocre starter in Drake.

I always thought Drake was a much better player than the way Miami used him. I can't tell you why they didn't use him better but that's on Gase not Drake. He was behind Ajayi and then Gore. Gase obviously prefers bigger backs that can pound it.

Especially when you consider he had 4.5, 4.8 and 5.4 YPC in his 3 years there and 7.7 yards per reception.

Drake isn't the kind of player to get paid and put his feet up. He's a good kid.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I don’t know that I’ve seen this board go so crazy for a player in the past 15 years whose “pace” would be absolutely ruined if not for one long run and one game with four TDs.

I’m gonna need someone to buy me a pair of whatever rose colored glasses you all own.

It's the average of 5.2 Rushing Yards per Attempt while with the Cardinals that has me excited about Drake.

 

[BritCard]

Can’t Remember where I saw it, but they had predictions where in the top running backs would go and how much they would sign for. They had Gordon that around 4 years $43 million.They had drake at three years $17 million. Fair price?

Yes anywhere from $5m-$6m is fair.

$5.25m with an extra $1m for breaking 1000 rushing yards would be my offer. Over 3 years with only $8m in G's.

 

[Solar7]

Ahhh. So you thought Wills might be wonderful and you were...gulp...wrong. So going forward you are going to take the low road on any decisions. You’re going to question every move. You’re going to doubt anything might be good.

That’s not really being objective. That’s flat out being pessimistic. You thought Wilks would be good and he wasn’t. Had Wilks and Rosen been retained most of us would have been disgusted. But we moved on. Changed our head coach and drafted our qbof. We went from the worst team in the league to the eighth worst team in the league. That’s not good enough for you. So it’s instant gratification or failure.

We probably won’t be in the playoffs in 2020 so brace yourself. Nevermind you’ve already have.

You state the roster has too many holes. You state we are in a very tough division. That’s where you are right. The difference between you and I is I watch this team go from the bottom rung of the latter and move up a quarter of the way. I saw this team play the super bowl losers tooth and nail. I saw this team go to the east coast and win. I watched this team beat the Seahawks. Most important I saw a team that never quit. I see progress. You see inevitable failure.

I slumped in my chair when we hired Wilks. Turns out I was right and you were wrong. I was excited when we hired Kingsbury. You obviously were not.

There is a 50/50 chance you are wrong again. Wait. That can’t be possible, can it. I’m through debating you. It’s like I’m trying to convince you to be optimistic. I will not ignore you but I can just about guarantee every thread you start or respond to will be Debbie downer. I’m not being blindly optimistic. I have my doubts about whether or not we will make all the right moves. I choose to think we CAN, where as you believe we won’t.

You say you may feel different March? No you won’t. I think there’s a better chance the Cardinals will make the playoffs.

At the end of the day, you're right - this comes down to you wanting to be optimistic, and me wanting to be realistic and brace myself for being crappy again. Short of the Seahawks win and maybe the Browns win, I didn't see a lot to be happy about. Until someone proves me wrong, I'm going to stick with the evidence.

I'm not negative in every thread, but I have 2-3 issues that really get me going in discussion, so I get heated and negative there.

 

[BritCard]

At the end of the day, you're right - this comes down to you wanting to be optimistic, and me wanting to be realistic and brace myself for being crappy again. Short of the Seahawks win and maybe the Browns win, I didn't see a lot to be happy about. Until someone proves me wrong, I'm going to stick with the evidence.

I'm not negative in every thread, but I have 2-3 issues that really get me going in discussion, so I get heated and negative there.

I think you are wrong on some points but I'm not going to bash you for being negative. We haven't had a winning season in 4. What's to be positive about?

No way I'm building myself up to expect Kyler to make a huge leap. Kliff to make a huge leap. Keim to make a huge leap. What are the odds? I'll expect more mediocrity and hope to be surprised.

On saying that, you also don't have to be negative about everything. You can have low expectations AND find positivity in some areas.

 

[BigRedRage]

Can’t Remember where I saw it, but they had predictions where in the top running backs would go and how much they would sign for. They had Gordon that around 4 years $43 million.They had drake at three years $17 million. Fair price?

id pay 6 mil a year

 

[BigRedRage]

At the end of the day, you're right - this comes down to you wanting to be optimistic, and me wanting to be pessimistic .

ftfy

 

[BigRedRage]

I think you are wrong on some points but I'm not going to bash you for being negative. We haven't had a winning season in 4. What's to be positive about?

No way I'm building myself up to expect Kyler to make a huge leap. Kliff to make a huge leap. Keim to make a huge leap. What are the odds? I'll expect more mediocrity and hope to be surprised.

On saying that, you also don't have to be negative about everything. You can have low expectations AND mind positivity in some areas.

I expect more improvement and a minimum 8-8 but ill wait until we form the team before I actually have a concrete expectation of the team.

 

[Krangodnzr]

id pay 6 mil a year

3 years, 21 mil max

 

[Solar7]

I think you are wrong on some points but I'm not going to bash you for being negative. We haven't had a winning season in 4. What's to be positive about?

No way I'm building myself up to expect Kyler to make a huge leap. Kliff to make a huge leap. Keim to make a huge leap. What are the odds? I'll expect more mediocrity and hope to be surprised.

On saying that, you also don't have to be negative about everything. You can have low expectations AND mind positivity in some areas.

The only things I'm truly negative about right now are the glaring roster holes, Kenyan Drake, and Kliff Kingsbury/Keim. Maybe a little mixed on DJ Humphries.

That's why I'm saying I might be fine come March. Drake could have gone and signed an $8M/year deal somewhere else, we may have filled the holes I'm so concerned about, resolved the DJ issue with the Franchise Tag, and I won't have anything to complain about and can sit and wait for the season to start with some hope for the future.

Now, if we sign Drake to a big four year deal, sign Humphries to a four year big money deal, declare Haason Reddick the starter at OLB, and do nothing but re-sign Rodney Gunter and Justin Murray at DE and OT, and spend big money on something like a safety or CB, I'll be very pessimistic.

 

[GuernseyCard]

At the end of the day, you're right - this comes down to you wanting to be optimistic, and me wanting to be realistic and brace myself for being crappy again. Short of the Seahawks win and maybe the Browns win, I didn't see a lot to be happy about. Until someone proves me wrong, I'm going to stick with the evidence.

I'm not negative in every thread, but I have 2-3 issues that really get me going in discussion, so I get heated and negative there.

Pessimist: life's a bitch and then you die.
Optimist: life's great and then you die.

 

[BritCard]

Now, if we sign Drake to a big four year deal, sign Humphries to a four year big money deal, declare Haason Reddick the starter at OLB, and do nothing but re-sign Rodney Gunter and Justin Murray at DE and OT, and spend big money on something like a safety or CB, I'll be very pessimistic.

If we do that then everyone will pessimistic. But also that's exactly what is going to happen so prepare yourself. Except the Drake part. No way they sign him to a big deal.

 

[pinetopred]

I really torn on this I hate trying up more money at RB position, but we need a replacement in place for DJ. I say let Drake figure out his market in FA if he gets big dollars from another team good for him. If he doesn't we offer a 1year 4 million dollar deal with incentives to him closer to 6-7 million if he plays well.

I think we could find a comparable RB in the draft and having DJ and Edmonds on the roster does give us that option, if we hit on the draft pick we are set there for a couple of years. There iare also other FA options that could be available cheaper if Drake thinks he can break the bank.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I really torn on this I hate trying up more money at RB position, but we need a replacement in place for DJ. I say let Drake figure out his market in FA if he gets big dollars from another team good for him. If he doesn't we offer a 1year 4 million dollar deal with incentives to him closer to 6-7 million if he plays well.

I think we could find a comparable RB in the draft and having DJ and Edmonds on the roster does give us that option, if we hit on the draft pick we are set there for a couple of years. There iare also other FA options that could be available cheaper if Drake thinks he can break the bank.

It's going take more than a one year deal for him to sign, or he is really no better off than his tenure at Miami from a career perspective because you want some kind of stability at his age to achieve personal objectives. He will get more than a one year offer from the Cards but it will not be anywhere close to what they are paying DJ or anyone else will pay him. I think the Gurley and DJ contracts have sobered the whole league towards giving running backs huge contracts... backs just have to realize that the huge contracts where a unicorn in the forest glade which has now ran off lol

 

[slanidrac16]

I think you are wrong on some points but I'm not going to bash you for being negative. We haven't had a winning season in 4. What's to be positive about?

No way I'm building myself up to expect Kyler to make a huge leap. Kliff to make a huge leap. Keim to make a huge leap. What are the odds? I'll expect more mediocrity and hope to be surprised.

On saying that, you also don't have to be negative about everything. You can have low expectations AND mind positivity in some areas.

See Brit, that’s the difference with Solar. We all have reservations. We all have doubt but there’s a difference between walking toward the light or being a Debbie downer.

 

[Solar7]

See Brit, that’s the difference with Solar. We all have reservations. We all have doubt but there’s a difference between walking toward the light or being a Debbie downer.

If most of this board has reservations, people sure don't bring them up often. I can't pop into a thread without Kenyan Drake being the guy who "sparked the offense," Kyler a top five QB already (and I don't have any interest in moving on from him or dislike of him, so let's please not have that fight again), DJ Humphries being totally worth resigning to a major deal, and wanting to bring back essentially the exact same offense from 2019.

There's roughly ten active posters here I feel are realistic about expressing their doubt while trying to remain positive. The rest seem to think we're geared up to compete for the division and make the playoffs, or are true darksiders like me.

 

[BigRedRage]

If most of this board has reservations, people sure don't bring them up often. I can't pop into a thread without Kenyan Drake being the guy who "sparked the offense," Kyler a top five QB already (and I don't have any interest in moving on from him or dislike of him, so let's please not have that fight again), DJ Humphries being totally worth resigning to a major deal, and wanting to bring back essentially the exact same offense from 2019.

There's roughly ten active posters here I feel are realistic about expressing their doubt while trying to remain positive. The rest seem to think we're geared up to compete for the division and make the playoffs, or are true darksiders like me.

Drake did provide a spark

I wouldnt say Murray is top 5 in the NFL yet. That is extreme.

DJ may be worth resigning just because if we dont, we could revisit a few years ago with guys like bautista playing tackle.

I still have reservations and do not see us as a super bowl team with this roster. I do believe with the right moves, we could have a plyoff roster and a playoff roster always has super bowl chances.

 

[Solar7]

Drake did provide a spark

I wouldnt say Murray is top 5 in the NFL yet. That is extreme.

DJ may be worth resigning just because if we dont, we could revisit a few years ago with guys like bautista playing tackle.

I still have reservations and do not see us as a super bowl team with this roster. I do believe with the right moves, we could have a plyoff roster and a playoff roster always has super bowl chances.

I'll still reserve my right to say he didn't provide a spark, because people seem to have forgotten how dismal that three game stretch after the first 49ers game really was. All the credit in the world to him for three decent games, but I'm still standing by my belief that they're anomalies across the guy's career that just happened to come right when he had the opportunity to get that cash.

I'm exaggerating about the top 5 thing a little bit, but there are some posters who wouldn't trade him for any other QB in the NFL outside of Mahomes or Watson (and even then I think people are saying they wouldn't), it seems.

I'm on the fence about the DJ thing. I see the arguments for and against it.

I just can't see playoffs. But to each their own.

 

[BigRedRage]

I'll still reserve my right to say he didn't provide a spark, because people seem to have forgotten how dismal that three game stretch after the first 49ers game really was. All the credit in the world to him for three decent games, but I'm still standing by my belief that they're anomalies across the guy's career that just happened to come right when he had the opportunity to get that cash.

I'm exaggerating about the top 5 thing a little bit, but there are some posters who wouldn't trade him for any other QB in the NFL outside of Mahomes or Watson (and even then I think people are saying they wouldn't), it seems.

I'm on the fence about the DJ thing. I see the arguments for and against it.

I just can't see playoffs. But to each their own.

So, if we had a blockbuster offseason, you couldnt see playoffs? I dont see the point of debating playoff potential until after FA and the draft. I said with the right moves, not right now. We need ILB and DL. If our defense could improve to top 15, sure we could make the playoffs. Why not?

There are a plethora of QBs I would not trade for right now and even some of the good ones have much larger contracts than murray. trading for a QB and giving up on your second first round pick would be stupid and isnt even worth discussing IMO.

Drake didnt light up every game, no and did have some pedestrian games but he still lit it up in many games too and I wont discount that. I would be happy with him at 6 million a year rather than a question mark. I'm not sure why that wouldnt be a discussion either. At 6 million per year, we have very little to lose and could draft another RB to groom under him in a year or two as edmonds contract gets closer to pay up time.

 

[Solar7]

So, if we had a blockbuster offseason, you couldnt see playoffs? I dont see the point of debating playoff potential until after FA and the draft. I said with the right moves, not right now. We need ILB and DL. If our defense could improve to top 15, sure we could make the playoffs. Why not?

There are a plethora of QBs I would not trade for right now and even some of the good ones have much larger contracts than murray. trading for a QB and giving up on your second first round pick would be stupid and isnt even worth discussing IMO.

Drake didnt light up every game, no and did have some pedestrian games but he still lit it up in many games too and I wont discount that. I would be happy with him at 6 million a year rather than a question mark. I'm not sure why that wouldnt be a discussion either. At 6 million per year, we have very little to lose and could draft another RB to groom under him in a year or two as edmonds contract gets closer to pay up time.

Let me address Murray first - I'm not talking about actually trading him, I'm talking an even swap in a pretend universe. Of course it would be dumb to move on from your #1 overall pick who showed a ton of potential in his rookie year. Just to be clear after a lot of my disdain for the pick, I like Kyler and am excited to see him grow, even if I'm unsure he's set up for success or to ascend to a top 5 QB.

On to the playoff piece - I don't think we have the cap space or draft picks needed to fill our roster with adequate starters where we currently have none, much less have a blockbuster offseason. I expect a pretty pedestrian free agency period on account of re-signing guys, needing to fill OLB (starter at least, probably backup), ILB (starter) DE x2 (starters and depth), OT x2 (starters have to be either re-signed or acquired), C, and even WR. We're 14 players away from even fielding a 53 man roster, much less acquiring stars or upgrading spots like S.

There's moves they could make to make me feel a lot better, but I just don't see us being able to catch 2/3 of our division opponents, and I don't think the NFC West is sending 3 playoff representatives.

Closing with Drake, I just don't believe in the guy, and I see paying him with DJ's contract as a guarantee we start an extremely poor player at one of the positions listed above. And then we end up stuck with him, or with dead money.

 

[DVontel]

Let me address Murray first - I'm not talking about actually trading him, I'm talking an even swap in a pretend universe. Of course it would be dumb to move on from your #1 overall pick who showed a ton of potential in his rookie year. Just to be clear after a lot of my disdain for the pick, I like Kyler and am excited to see him grow, even if I'm unsure he's set up for success or to ascend to a top 5 QB.

On to the playoff piece - I don't think we have the cap space or draft picks needed to fill our roster with adequate starters where we currently have none, much less have a blockbuster offseason. I expect a pretty pedestrian free agency period on account of re-signing guys, needing to fill OLB (starter at least, probably backup), ILB (starter) DE x2 (starters and depth), OT x2 (starters have to be either re-signed or acquired), C, and even WR. We're 14 players away from even fielding a 53 man roster, much less acquiring stars or upgrading spots like S.

There's moves they could make to make me feel a lot better, but I just don't see us being able to catch 2/3 of our division opponents, and I don't think the NFC West is sending 3 playoff representatives.

Closing with Drake, I just don't believe in the guy, and I see paying him with DJ's contract as a guarantee we start an extremely poor player at one of the positions listed above. And then we end up stuck with him, or with dead money.

I’m interested what players do you want in FA & the draft.