Help! Harry.

[slanidrac16]

Uh, that's kinda what I'm asking Harry... we aren't winning the Super Bowl in 2020 so if he thinks Jeudy is better than Lamb over time, why take Lamb for the "immediate impact?"

I think it’s because he says Juedy may turn out better. Not will.

 

[Solar7]

I think it’s because he says Juedy may turn out better. Not will.

It's not Jeudy alone. Would you rather have Lamb make an "immediate impact" as a WR, get 1000 yards and 5 TDs, but never really get much better, or have Andrew Thomas be an All-Pro multiple years in the future?

 

[slanidrac16]

It's not Jeudy alone. Would you rather have Lamb make an "immediate impact" as a WR, get 1000 yards and 5 TDs, but never really get much better, or have Andrew Thomas be an All-Pro multiple years in the future?

Well that’s the million dollar question. We don’t know how any player is going to turn out.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Harry, can I ask why you feel this team needs an immediate impact player over an eventual superstar player? There isn't a soul on this website that wants to suffer through another losing season, but do you think we can really compete in our own division, much less the NFC?

I'm not interested in either WR at 8 where we stand today, but if we resolve some issues and are looking at that position, I want the guy with the long term success. To me, "immediate impact" players are for teams on the cusp of winning it all and need someone to fill a hole.

The Cardinals were competitive in 4/6 of their Divisional games.

They only won one, but could have won 3 others if a few plays went differently. What if Brock intercepts Stafford in overtime? What if some one made a defensive play in the Ravens game?

The Cardinals were literally 20 plays away from having a winning season. I know you could argue the flipside, but it's not a crazy idea that they draft Wirfs, upgrade the defense to mediocre, and are competing for a playoff spot.

You act as if no one ever goes from worst to first. It happens.

 

[football karma]

I really don’t care if Johnson , Issabella or Butler we’re taken last year.

just because i have seen this from time to time, i agree that you dont let day 3 picks from last year determine what you do the next year in the draft. Day three guys have something like a 15% starter success rate

 

[Harry]

Harry, can I ask why you feel this team needs an immediate impact player over an eventual superstar player? There isn't a soul on this website that wants to suffer through another losing season, but do you think we can really compete in our own division, much less the NFC?

I'm not interested in either WR at 8 where we stand today, but if we resolve some issues and are looking at that position, I want the guy with the long term success. To me, "immediate impact" players are for teams on the cusp of winning it all and need someone to fill a hole.

At 8 I’m not sure even Lamb is a superstar. I just think he’s an impact player. I think Murray’s growth path should be the focus. None of the OTs are likely to be first year impact players, though I’ll grant you have start sometime. I think you can make solid defensive strides in FA. They’ve invested heavily in the belief Murray is the man. I’m buying in.

 

[Solar7]

The Cardinals were competitive in 4/6 of their Divisional games.

They only won one, but could have won 3 others if a few plays went differently. What if Brock intercepts Stafford in overtime? What if some one made a defensive play in the Ravens game?

The Cardinals were literally 20 plays away from having a winning season. I know you could argue the flipside, but it's not a crazy idea that they draft Wirfs, upgrade the defense to mediocre, and are competing for a playoff spot.

You act as if no one ever goes from worst to first. It happens.

You and I have both debated what "competitive" is. Where you see "competitive" in most of those games, I see a team who was only in it because their opponents just weren't trying that hard until they pushed down the pedal. (Not entirely in all of these division games, but in general across our games.)

And yeah, I can easily argue that most of our wins go the other way if there's one more play. We just barely escaped against the Bengals, Falcons, and Giants.

The other three teams in this division are really freaking good, and we're just not there. Maybe we can talk after offseason, but having to catch those three is going to be hard. I could see us eclipsing the Rams, but it'll be hard. Teams go from worst to first, but generally not in divisions with three teams that are Super Bowl contenders.

 

[DVontel]

Seattle is just Russell Wilson & friends. They’re not a Super Bowl contender. The season Russell Wilson plays even just average is the season they’ll go under .500

Goff sucks, but I’m still worried about McVay.

Think SF will be good for a while under Shanny even though Jimmy ain’t all that to me either.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You and I have both debated what "competitive" is. Where you see "competitive" in most of those games, I see a team who was only in it because their opponents just weren't trying that hard until they pushed down the pedal. (Not entirely in all of these division games, but in general across our games.)

And yeah, I can easily argue that most of our wins go the other way if there's one more play. We just barely escaped against the Bengals, Falcons, and Giants.

The other three teams in this division are really freaking good, and we're just not there. Maybe we can talk after offseason, but having to catch those three is going to be hard. I could see us eclipsing the Rams, but it'll be hard. Teams go from worst to first, but generally not in divisions with three teams that are Super Bowl contenders.

See @DVontel comments.

Seattle is not that good. Take Russell away and put a league average QB, and that team is 7-9 at best.

The Rams....they need a QB something fierce, and overall their defense isnt that good.

The Niners are pretty good, but they wont be able to keep all of what makes them good for too long. I doubt they can sustain this kind of success long term because I dont think Jimmy G is the type of QB who can gut out wins.

Not pushing the pedal?!?! That's a ridiculously bad take. Bad. No basis in reality. The Cardinals were in both of the Niners games. They werent coasting. They werent in the first Seattle game, but Seattle doesnt coast. Hell the first Rams game, they never coasted they came at the Cardinals hard. Was Carolina coasting? Nope they won the game in the 4th. The Bucaneers werent coasting either. What game are you referring to? Is there any? Because the Ravens werent coasting either...

 

[Solar7]

Seattle is just Russell Wilson & friends. They’re not a Super Bowl contender. The season Russell Wilson plays even just average is the season they’ll go under .500

Goff sucks, but I’m still worried about McVay.

Think SF will be good for a while under Shanny even though Jimmy ain’t all that to me either.

Seattle is "just Russell Wilson and friends," which is good enough for 8 consecutive winning seasons (7 above 10 wins) and 8 playoff appearances in a decade.

Goff and co. are are a year removed from a Super Bowl.

The 49ers are in the Super Bowl today.

We are a year removed from one of our worst seasons ever and have added very little in the way of young, successful players.

 

[gimpy]

But, we are getting there.

 

[DVontel]

Seattle is "just Russell Wilson and friends," which is good enough for 8 consecutive winning seasons (7 above 10 wins) and 8 playoff appearances in a decade.

Goff and co. are are a year removed from a Super Bowl.

The 49ers are in the Super Bowl today.

We are a year removed from one of our worst seasons ever and have added very little in the way of young, successful players.

Yea, you’re highly underselling how great Russell Wilson is. He’s by far the most valuable QB to his team more than anyone else it’s not even funny. It’s probably not going to happen until he’s like 36 or something, but the day his play drops to even average, Seattle will drop off dramatically. Unless they starting hit on their draft classes like from 2010-2012.


Panthers were a year removed from a Super Bowl in 2016. Falcons were removed from a Super Bowl in 2017. What have they been doing recently?


49ers the only team I’m confident in that will still be good 3-5 years from now because Shanny is that damn good.

 

[Solar7]

See @DVontel comments.

Seattle is not that good. Take Russell away and put a league average QB, and that team is 7-9 at best.

The Rams....they need a QB something fierce, and overall their defense isnt that good.

The Niners are pretty good, but they wont be able to keep all of what makes them good for too long. I doubt they can sustain this kind of success long term because I dont think Jimmy G is the type of QB who can gut out wins.

Not pushing the pedal?!?! That's a ridiculously bad take. Bad. No basis in reality. The Cardinals were in both of the Niners games. They werent coasting. They werent in the first Seattle game, but Seattle doesnt coast. Hell the first Rams game, they never coasted they came at the Cardinals hard. Was Carolina coasting? Nope they won the game in the 4th. The Bucaneers werent coasting either. What game are you referring to? Is there any? Because the Ravens werent coasting either...

I'm saying almost all of those teams were probably looking at us as a joke, came in flat, and then through bad coaching or their teams stepping their game up in the fourth, they showed they were much better.

You and I aren't going to be able to convince each other of different here. The end of these games weren't just one bad bounce or mistake, they were mostly us being incapable of converting in the red zone, making ridiculous coaching decisions, or just purely being outplayed.

That first 49ers game, we got outplayed almost the whole time. One broken play to Isabella for an 88 yard TD is the difference between that being a 10 point loss. KK also made an awful call to let them get a second chance at a TD ate the end of the first. And when push came to shove, the 49ers showed us why they were good.

The second game was closer.

The Seattle win was the only complete game the team played all year against a quality opponent.

The Buccaneers are a mediocre team who still outcoached us.

Carolina turned it on at the end of the game and made us look foolish. The Ravens came out soft and turned it on at the end of the game. And Carolina isn't a good team - at least the Ravens are.

My point is, teams were able to turn it on and dominate us in the 4th. Even our 3 early season wins, we let teams back in it and almost found a way to lose.

 

[Solar7]

Yea, you’re highly underselling how great Russell Wilson is. He’s by far the most valuable QB to his team more than anyone else it’s not even funny. It’s probably not going to happen until he’s like 36 or something, but the day his play drops to even average, Seattle will drop off dramatically. Unless they starting hit on their draft classes like from 2010-2012.


Panthers were a year removed from a Super Bowl in 2016. Falcons were removed from a Super Bowl in 2017. What have they been doing recently?


49ers the only team I’m confident in that will still be good 3-5 years from now because Shanny is that damn good.

I'm not arguing that we can't be good in the next few years, but just that I don't think we have any chance of making the playoffs next year. The next year is going to be interesting to watch, and I wonder how much patience MB is really going to have.

I'm pretty concerned we put together a season where we beat up on depleted teams in the AFC East & NFC East, consider it good enough, and then when the schedule gets tougher in 2021, we look overmatched again. I've restated it again and again, I just think our young talent is wildly subpar.

 

[DVontel]

I'm not arguing that we can't be good in the next few years, but just that I don't think we have any chance of making the playoffs next year. The next year is going to be interesting to watch, and I wonder how much patience MB is really going to have.

I'm pretty concerned we put together a season where we beat up on depleted teams in the AFC East & NFC East, consider it good enough, and then when the schedule gets tougher in 2021, we look overmatched again. I've restated it again and again, I just think our young talent is wildly subpar.

Man I just....lol


Bro, I’m just at the point where you can’t be pleased & you’ll have a “but” for everything. You got it brother. You win.

 

[Solar7]

Man I just....lol


Bro, I’m just at the point where you can’t be pleased & you’ll have a “but” for everything. You got it brother. You win.

I was saying I agree with you if you're talking long term progress... maybe I misunderstood?

Yeah, if you want my "but" though, I am going to continue to keep saying I don't think this team is very good until they start winning and proving me wrong. No moral victories.

 

[slanidrac16]

I was saying I agree with you if you're talking long term progress... maybe I misunderstood?

Yeah, if you want my "but" though, I am going to continue to keep saying I don't think this team is very good until they start winning and proving me wrong. No moral victories.

Prognosticators pride themselves on what is going to happen. If the Cardinals explode onto the scene in 2020 your after the fact opinions will hold a lot less water.

 

[Solar7]

Prognosticators pride themselves on what is going to happen. If the Cardinals explode onto the scene in 2020 your after the fact opinions will hold a lot less water.

Great, and if they don't do anything of value, I'm sure your opinion will be remembered forever.

I have no idea why you think we're going to explode onto the scene, but feel free to come back and tell me I was wrong when we do. I won't feel bad celebrating wins.

 

[slanidrac16]

Great, and if they don't do anything of value, I'm sure your opinion will be remembered forever.

I have no idea why you think we're going to explode onto the scene, but feel free to come back and tell me I was wrong when we do. I won't feel bad celebrating wins.

That’s part of the fun Solar. Believing we are all great GM’s and stating our opinion. Not claiming we are going to make all the wrong moves and then celebrate if they are the right moves.

I was infatuated with Issabella. I pictured him fitting in as that pesky little guy that would drive defenses crazy. I was ecstatic when we picked him. Before the draft I asked Harry about him and Harry said he’ll be hard pressed to make it because he body catches everything.

To this point he was right and I was wrong. But I find it fun putting it out there. I don’t go looking for the doomsday reasons why we will fail. I’m not claiming the Cards are going to burst on the scene. But if the did I will enjoy every minute of the journey rather than take the stand it simply can’t happen. If My opinions are right cool. If they’re wrong I will gladly fess up.

 

[Solar7]

That’s part of the fun Solar. Believing we are all great GM’s and stating our opinion. Not claiming we are going to make all the wrong moves and then celebrate if they are the right moves.

I was infatuated with Issabella. I pictured him fitting in as that pesky little guy that would drive defenses crazy. I was ecstatic when we picked him. Before the draft I asked Harry about him and Harry said he’ll be hard pressed to make it because he body catches everything.

To this point he was right and I was wrong. But I find it fun putting it out there. I don’t go looking for the doomsday reasons why we will fail. I’m not claiming the Cards are going to burst on the scene. But if the did I will enjoy every minute of the journey rather than take the stand it simply can’t happen. If My opinions are right cool. If they’re wrong I will gladly fess up.

Good on you man, I think we can both respectfully be on opposite sides here. We have a lot of moves that you and I both have no control over coming up.

Unfortunately, I think that even if I was GM, I'd feel like the war was already lost. Everyone knows how pessimistic I am though.

 

[Harry]

Since none of us can get fired for our opinions, this is the best place to have them.