2020 Draft

[JerkFace]

Obi Toppin:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[JCSunsfan]

I do not know why Vernon Carey from Duke is not getting more attention. He scores, rebounds, blocks shots, and has even made a good percentage of the few threes he has taken.

Other players I think should get a look and who will likely be available.

Tyler Bey
Trey Jones. 2.5 steals per game. Oddly, that stat is often one of the best predictors.

Other players I DO NOT Want.

Tyrese Maxey
Josh Green.

 

[JerkFace]

I do not know why Vernon Carey from Duke is not getting more attention. He scores, rebounds, blocks shots, and has even made a good percentage of the few threes he has taken.

Other players I think should get a look and who will likely be available.

Tyler Bey
Trey Jones. 2.5 steals per game. Oddly, that stat is often one of the best predictors.

Other players I DO NOT Want.

Tyrese Maxey
Josh Green.

Tyrese Maxey kind of reminds me of Dion Waiters. I have no clue why he is being projected as a lottery pick. 42% fg, 29% 3pt... bleh.

 

[Phrazbit]

It is a scary draft to have a top pick in. No clear cut number 1 and several guys with huge bust potential. If we got really lucky and landed the top pick I think I would trade down.

 

[Proximo]

The Cam Johnson pick was almost universally panned on this board.

It should be. He was not nearly the best pick available even if he has a solid NBA career, which I think he will.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

It should be. He was not nearly the best pick available even if he has a solid NBA career, which I think he will.

The problem I'm starting to have is not so much that he was a reach, but a reach with medical red flags.

 

[JerkFace]

It is a scary draft to have a top pick in. No clear cut number 1 and several guys with huge bust potential. If we got really lucky and landed the top pick I think I would trade down.

It would be pretty funny if the Knicks finally get the #1 pick and it is in this trash draft.

 

[Raindog]

The thing with the Cam pick wasn’t so much that he is terrible or a bust, per se, because I don't think he is. What he is is pretty much strictly a role player. He could probably be considered a pretty decent acquisition if the Suns had picked him at the spot where they picked Jerome - which is about where he was slotted to go by most people. You get him at pick 25 or whatever and he's not a bad addition as a specialist to fill out your bench.

The issue for the Suns though is that they had the 6th pick (originally)... and were (and are) in no position to be using their pretty valuable draft capital on guys who are fringe role players. It's not like they are so good yet they need to be making finding tenth man role players their prime focus in the off-season. Eventually, yes, you are going to be needing to look for guys like Cam to enhance your roster. But a team coming off a 19 win season should most definitely NOT be putting the focus of its draft strategy on that.

Hindsight is 20-20, of course, but it was obvious to most everybody that the Suns still had the pick of a lot of guys at the 6 spot (and even later, the 10 spot) that had more immediate and long-range potential to fill one of their many needs than Cam ever will... and it's become apparent that they whiffed on that, even if Cam emerges as a credible NBA player, which I think he will.

The bottom line is that overall, James Jones didn't do a very good job of managing his first draft as GM of the Suns, and that is something that will bear further scrutiny as his tenure here goes on.

 

[1Sun]

The thing with the Cam pick wasn’t so much that he is terrible or a bust, per se, because I don't think he is. What he is is pretty much strictly a role player. He could probably be considered a pretty decent acquisition if the Suns had picked him at the spot where they picked Jerome - which is about where he was slotted to go by most people. You get him at pick 25 or whatever and he's not a bad addition as a specialist to fill out your bench.

The issue for the Suns though is that they had the 6th pick (originally)... and were (and are) in no position to be using their pretty valuable draft capital on guys who are fringe role players. It's not like they are so good yet they need to be making finding tenth man role players their prime focus in the off-season. Eventually, yes, you are going to be needing to look for guys like Cam to enhance your roster. But a team coming off a 19 win season should most definitely NOT be putting the focus of its draft strategy on that.

Hindsight is 20-20, of course, but it was obvious to most everybody that the Suns still had the pick of a lot of guys at the 6 spot (and even later, the 10 spot) that had more immediate and long-range potential to fill one of their many needs than Cam ever will... and it's become apparent that they whiffed on that, even if Cam emerges as a credible NBA player, which I think he will.

The bottom line is that overall, James Jones didn't do a very good job of managing his first draft as GM of the Suns, and that is something that will bear further scrutiny as his tenure here goes on.

I agree with all of this..except I don't think Cam will even emerge as a credible NBA player. I have seen nothing to convince me he will be.

 

[GatorAZ]

Beating a dead horse but Brandon Clark is shooting nearly 66% from 2pt range, 40% from 3 (18/45), 83% FT with a 68TS%. We knew about his defensive ability but I didn’t see him having an impact offensively to this level (129 ORtg, 1.9 OBPM). Again I wasn’t high on him so I can’t rip it in hindsight but holy moly he’d be great next to Ayton... And we passed on him twice. Grizzlies’ gain.

 

[1Sun]

Beating a dead horse but Brandon Clark is shooting nearly 66% from 2pt range, 40% from 3 (18/45), 83% FT with a 68TS%. We knew about his defensive ability but I didn’t see him having an impact offensively to this level (129 ORtg, 1.9 OBPM). Again I wasn’t high on him so I can’t rip it in hindsight but holy moly he’d be great next to Ayton... And we passed on him twice. Grizzlies’ gain.

Yup. James Jones passed on the next Shawn Marion in favor of the next Earl Clark.

 

[WildBB]

Beating a dead horse but Brandon Clark is shooting nearly 66% from 2pt range, 40% from 3 (18/45), 83% FT with a 68TS%. We knew about his defensive ability but I didn’t see him having an impact offensively to this level (129 ORtg, 1.9 OBPM). Again I wasn’t high on him so I can’t rip it in hindsight but holy moly he’d be great next to Ayton... And we passed on him twice. Grizzlies’ gain.

Big mistake. And he's got quite the chip now.

And we have a big problem with that MG team.

 

[SirStefan32]

The thing with the Cam pick wasn’t so much that he is terrible or a bust, per se, because I don't think he is. What he is is pretty much strictly a role player. He could probably be considered a pretty decent acquisition if the Suns had picked him at the spot where they picked Jerome - which is about where he was slotted to go by most people. You get him at pick 25 or whatever and he's not a bad addition as a specialist to fill out your bench.

The issue for the Suns though is that they had the 6th pick (originally)... and were (and are) in no position to be using their pretty valuable draft capital on guys who are fringe role players. It's not like they are so good yet they need to be making finding tenth man role players their prime focus in the off-season. Eventually, yes, you are going to be needing to look for guys like Cam to enhance your roster. But a team coming off a 19 win season should most definitely NOT be putting the focus of its draft strategy on that.

Hindsight is 20-20, of course, but it was obvious to most everybody that the Suns still had the pick of a lot of guys at the 6 spot (and even later, the 10 spot) that had more immediate and long-range potential to fill one of their many needs than Cam ever will... and it's become apparent that they whiffed on that, even if Cam emerges as a credible NBA player, which I think he will.

The bottom line is that overall, James Jones didn't do a very good job of managing his first draft as GM of the Suns, and that is something that will bear further scrutiny as his tenure here goes on.

See, I disagree. If I remember correctly, I wanted Clarke, but liked Hunter as well, and I had no clue who Cam Johnson was, honestly. That said, I think the Suns needed role-players, especially after striking out on Jackson, Bender, and Chriss. They had very few real NBA players, and they got two in that deal. I am fine with what they did, though I wanted a different player. If you have Ayton and Booker, along with Oubre, Bridges, and Rubio, but the rest of the roster is a bunch of G-League talent, I am fine with getting a solid role player.

 

[GatorAZ]

Crazy part is Clarke fits Jones’ age window of preferred players. He was 22 at the time of the draft. I think the Saric trade was a worthy gamble in real time but it would’ve been nice to come away with an impact rookie. Cam and Ty were supposed to be because of their age and experience.

 

[leclerc]

There might very well be better players in that draft class, but a high IQ guy with average size and athleticism to go with an amazing outside shot is something we'll probably always need.

I also wish they would have drafted differently but it's not all bad with Cam Johnson. I hope he gets back healthy and has a good second half of the season.

...and then for the first time ever shows everyone he's made huge strides in summer league!

 

[GatorAZ]

Back on topic both guys I want (Halliburton & Toppin) will be long gone unless we get lucky and shoot up on drawing night.

Guys in our range will be all 3 Arizona players. None of which fits James Jones’ profile to this point. I think Reed and Tillie could be in play.

 

[JerkFace]

Back on topic both guys I want (Halliburton & Toppin) will be long gone unless we get lucky and shoot up on drawing night.

Guys in our range will be all 3 Arizona players. None of which fits James Jones’ profile to this point. I think Reed and Tillie could be in play.

Back on topic indeed. I am in the same boat as you. I would love Toppin or Halliburton but chances are they will be gone when we pick. My guess is that we will be in the 12-14 range. The only Arizona player I am even remotely interested in is Nnaji, but that seems a little high for him. I don’t think Tillie goes that high either but Reed is an interesting prospect. I will be the first to admit though that I haven’t watch any DePaul games and I hate relying on highlights to evaluate a player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Back on topic indeed. I am in the same boat as you. I would love Toppin or Halliburton but chances are they will be gone when we pick. My guess is that we will be in the 12-14 range. The only Arizona player I am even remotely interested in is Nnaji, but that seems a little high for him. I don’t think Tillie goes that high either but Reed is an interesting prospect. I will be the first to admit though that I haven’t watch any DePaul games and I hate relying on highlights to evaluate a player.

The best predictor I have seen in recent years is the green vs red evaluations on Tankathon. It seems simple but it has been a great indicator of stars and busts.

It says the finds of this draft are:
Wiseman with a small sample size warning
Haliburton
Okongwu
Toppin
Paul Reed
Vernon Carey

Second group would be:
Tre Jones
Isaiah Stewart
Joel Ayayi
Killian Tillie

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There might very well be better players in that draft class, but a high IQ guy with average size and athleticism to go with an amazing outside shot is something we'll probably always need.

I also wish they would have drafted differently but it's not all bad with Cam Johnson. I hope he gets back healthy and has a good second half of the season.

...and then for the first time ever shows everyone he's made huge strides in summer league!

Cam has below average athleticism at the nba level. Let’s not make him what he’s not.

I think he’s a good shooter with good basketball IQ and hard worker. He should be a fine player. Never what I’d consider a “good” nba player. But fine for a rotation. The disappointment is that we had the sixth pick and that’s likely to be what we walk away with at seasons end (I don’t think we resign saric), a fine rotation player.

 

[elindholm]

The disappointment is that we had the sixth pick and that’s likely to be what we walk away with at seasons end (I don’t think we resign saric)

And there's the rub. The trade had to be made on the assumption that Saric had potential as a long-term piece. He's a lottery pick still on his rookie deal, and he appeared to fill a position of need. The fact that Saric has been terrible puts more pressure on Johnson to justify the deal, and that's asking too much of him.

Essentially the Suns made a one-for-two trade and fell victim to what often happens in those cases, which is that neither of the two players coming in has value over a random replacement player, so as far as the trade is concerned they don't count as assets at all.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Cam has below average athleticism at the nba level. Let’s not make him what he’s not.

I think he’s a good shooter with good basketball IQ and hard worker. He should be a fine player. Never what I’d consider a “good” nba player. But fine for a rotation. The disappointment is that we had the sixth pick and that’s likely to be what we walk away with at seasons end (I don’t think we resign saric), a fine rotation player.

Jones’ weakness in the draft might end up being an over appreciation of fine role players. McD’s problem was swinging for the fences with gifted athletes without skills or really young raw overhyped players.

for what it is worth, the Tankathon green bubbles said that Clarke and Ja would be NBA studs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And there's the rub. The trade had to be made on the assumption that Saric had potential as a long-term piece. He's a lottery pick still on his rookie deal, and he appeared to fill a position of need. The fact that Saric has been terrible puts more pressure on Johnson to justify the deal, and that's asking too much of him.

Essentially the Suns made a one-for-two trade and fell victim to what often happens in those cases, which is that neither of the two players coming in has value over a random replacement player, so as far as the trade is concerned they don't count as assets at all.

I largely agree but would say the pressure isn’t on cam, but rather on jones.

 

[1Sun]

And there's the rub. The trade had to be made on the assumption that Saric had potential as a long-term piece. He's a lottery pick still on his rookie deal, and he appeared to fill a position of need. The fact that Saric has been terrible puts more pressure on Johnson to justify the deal, and that's asking too much of him.

Essentially the Suns made a one-for-two trade and fell victim to what often happens in those cases, which is that neither of the two players coming in has value over a random replacement player, so as far as the trade is concerned they don't count as assets at all.

As I pointed out right when the trade was made, all of the signs of Saric being terrible were plain to see. Whose fault is it that they were missed?...

 

[JCSunsfan]

And there's the rub. The trade had to be made on the assumption that Saric had potential as a long-term piece. He's a lottery pick still on his rookie deal, and he appeared to fill a position of need. The fact that Saric has been terrible puts more pressure on Johnson to justify the deal, and that's asking too much of him.

Essentially the Suns made a one-for-two trade and fell victim to what often happens in those cases, which is that neither of the two players coming in has value over a random replacement player, so as far as the trade is concerned they don't count as assets at all.

I think you and I differ on how good Saric is. I do not see him as terrible. He is a role player starter and decent as a back up. But he is a real NBA player. Jones has to populate this roster with real NBA players after the years of g-league play we have endured.

I wonder if we will keep Saric or not. That will be interesting.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think you and I differ on how good Saric is. I do not see him as terrible. He is a role player starter and decent as a back up. But he is a real NBA player. Jones has to populate this roster with real NBA players after the years of g-league play we have endured.

I wonder if we will keep Saric or not. That will be interesting.

I don’t view him as terrible. I just think he’s worse than I anticipated. I also think he’s an NBA player. But I’d prefer him in a backup role.