Starting to warm to Simmons, but ...

[slanidrac16]

And yet another thread hijacked about Kyler.

 

[DVontel]

And yet another thread hijacked about Kyler.

Thanks a lot @Cbus cardsfan smh

 

[Solar7]

8/8 is not a losing record

and your just going to flat out ignore all the injuries we had during that 7-8-1 and 8-8 seasons 3 and 4 years ago? The entire offense doesn’t get hurt those years were not 500 and were in the playoffs. You can’t keep ignoring this.

rebuilding for 2 years. That’s reality now go put your spin on it and tell me how much this organization sucks and much you love the 49ers.

8-8 is not a winning record either. Our coaching was insanely superior, headed up by a two time head coach of the year, not a college head coach with a losing record that got fired by his alma mater and was not offered another college head coaching job.

And yet another thread hijacked about Kyler.

I hate to say it, but yeah. Not sure when we're gonna find an equilibrium here. This is still a really bad team, and I think he's the pivot point between people who think this team is going in the right direction, and those who don't.

 

[slanidrac16]

8-8 is not a winning record either. Our coaching was insanely superior, headed up by a two time head coach of the year, not a college head coach with a losing record that got fired by his alma mater and was not offered another college head coaching job.


I hate to say it, but yeah. Not sure when we're gonna find an equilibrium here. This is still a really bad team, and I think he's the pivot point between people who think this team is going in the right direction, and those who don't.

Not when a thread is started about who to pick at #8. But somehow, someway....

 

[Solar7]

Not when a thread is started about who to pick at #8. But somehow, someway....

And it wasn't a negative comment about Murray that started it. "Keim picked the best player in the draft last year."

That's just inciting the argument all over again. Krangthebrain knows what he's doing, and where he's going with it.

 

[slanidrac16]

And it wasn't a negative comment about Murray that started it. "Keim picked the best player in the draft last year."

That's just inciting the argument all over again. Krangthebrain knows what he's doing, and where he's going with it.

Right. And a simple response? I disagree. Not a diatribe 5 paragraphs long about how Kyler matches up with Gardner Minshew which then Spawns 18 point- counterpoint that hijacks the entire thread.

 

[Solar7]

Right. And a simple response? I disagree. Not a diatribe 5 paragraphs long about how Kyler matches up with Gardner Minshew which then Spawns 18 point- counterpoint that hijacks the entire thread.

What's the point of the discussion on the board then?

We have different writing styles. I'm not content with leaving a sentence that doesn't explain myself or back it up with research.

 

[slanidrac16]

What's the point of the discussion on the board then?

We have different writing styles. I'm not content with leaving a sentence that doesn't explain myself or back it up with research.

Okay. Whatever. Keep doing what you will.

 

[juza76]

Simmons declared for the draft, I have been pretty sure since he recently graduated
Was a no brainer decision
Hope we may have a chance to draft hm
Best defensive playmaker in this draft and probably no just in this one

 

[wit3card]

Those aren't historical stats, that is projecting what you feel to be true over the next 4 years. And that is ok, but it is completely different from your previous statement which implied there was a historical trend of needing to be great vs the TE to win a Super Bowl.

I didn't mean to put it as historical fact, I thought I wrote that to win a SB in the future you need a ILB that can stop a TE.

The historical fact is, that in the last two decades we as Cardinals, managed to cover or stop a TE only in very few years. Everyone nows in FF that you put your TE in if he plays the Cards, that is because we somehow are really bad in the recent history against TE. So being again bad against TE this last year was the why we need it. But Overall I presume that in the next 2-4 years, to sniff a chance for a SB you need to stop a good TE.

 

[daves]

You know, except for the fact that Minshew had a better passer rating, more TDs, and less turnovers...

Minshew did NOT have more TDs (21 vs. 24 - or do rushing TDs somehow not count in your world?) and he had 13 fumbles (not sure how many were lost) vs. 2 "lost fumbles" attributed to Murray in the final game, neither of which was his fault.

but okay, Murray is the best ever and there's no debate. Put him in the ring of honor.

Ever since the draft, you've been making straw men out of everyone's pro-Murray posts, and then getting outraged over them. It's been fueling countless wasted hours of arguing on both sides, and it's very tiresome.

...dbs

 

[pinetopred]

I'm gonna ask a Simmons question. In the last 10 years how many ILB's have been taken in the top 10 of the draft or safeties for that matter my guess less then 10 combined at those 2 positions and this is just a guess could be completely wrong. I've said a number of times dont dislike the player but is this the spot to use a top 10 pick on a safety/ILB this is just a question I'm still in the information gathering mode on draft picks I watch some college games but probably not like some of you can I work way to many Saturdays lol

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm gonna ask a Simmons question. In the last 10 years how many ILB's have been taken in the top 10 of the draft or safeties for that matter my guess less then 10 combined at those 2 positions and this is just a guess could be completely wrong. I've said a number of times dont dislike the player but is this the spot to use a top 10 pick on a safety/ILB this is just a question I'm still in the information gathering mode on draft picks I watch some college games but probably not like some of you can I work way to many Saturdays lol

Simmons is a unicorn.

He had just as many snaps at CB as LB.

He had 7 sacks....on 71 pass rushing attempts! That's remarkable.

 

[Dan H]

Urlacher played some safety in college. Kuechly played some in high school.

Simmons, as was said, is something different.

 

[Solar7]

Minshew did NOT have more TDs (21 vs. 24 - or do rushing TDs somehow not count in your world?) and he had 13 fumbles (not sure how many were lost) vs. 2 "lost fumbles" attributed to Murray in the final game, neither of which was his fault.


Ever since the draft, you've been making straw men out of everyone's pro-Murray posts, and then getting outraged over them. It's been fueling countless wasted hours of arguing on both sides, and it's very tiresome.

...dbs

It was a long day of football yesterday, and I need to be more clear. More passing TDs.

My entire point was functionally that Minshew did more with less playing time, and to pretend Murray outplayed him by leaps and bounds is incorrect. I didn't even begin the discussion about Murray vs. Minshew, cbus did.

But then, when the stats are close, people act like their hair is on fire coming to defend Kyler for being the best out there, when the true differentiator is mostly just that the poster is a Cards fan and therefore likes Murray more. KM's excuses are valid, but for some reason, the other QBs don't get the benefit.

The margin of difference between the two players is small, and to an unbiased eye, the argument about which had a better season is definitely up for debate. I'm not the only one approaching this with question marks. Bring this discussion to any other non-Cardinals board, and you'll see that Murray isn't getting the love in the argument.

 

[pinetopred]

Simmons is a unicorn.

He had just as many snaps at CB as LB.

He had 7 sacks....on 71 pass rushing attempts! That's remarkable.

The games I have been able to watch yeah he is great at blitzing and in coverage, very poor near line of scrimmage in the run game so what position would you say we are drafting? Do you play him at ILB in base or safety I'm leaning more towards safety, but I realize base packages change game to game depending on opponents. In other words I get he can move all over but is he better in a 4-2-5 type base where he can be moved easily around to use his athletic ability

 

[Jetstream Green]

The games I have been able to watch yeah he is great at blitzing and in coverage, very poor near line of scrimmage in the run game so what position would you say we are drafting? Do you play him at ILB in base or safety I'm leaning more towards safety, but I realize base packages change game to game depending on opponents. In other words I get he can move all over but is he better in a 4-2-5 type base where he can be moved easily around to use his athletic ability

Might be a risk going DT with the mixed results but we really really need to do something about our DL because Allen is a maybe and Peters is one year older. We drafted like two safeties, always dropping and picking up safeties while our DL needs a dynamic cornerstone... I would draft Derrick Brown if I was in charge

 

[football karma]

I'm gonna ask a Simmons question. In the last 10 years how many ILB's have been taken in the top 10 of the draft or safeties for that matter my guess less then 10 combined at those 2 positions

Tampa took Devin White at #5, and the Steelers took Devin Bush last year at #10 -- last year

Minkah Fitzpatrick, S went at #11 in '18
Jamal Adams went #6 in '17

Kuechly at #9 in '12

we will see about the Devin twins from last year, but it looks like if you are a ILB or a S and get taken high, it means you are a really good player

 

[daves]

It was a long day of football yesterday, and I need to be more clear. More passing TDs.

My entire point was functionally that Minshew did more with less playing time, and to pretend Murray outplayed him by leaps and bounds is incorrect. I didn't even begin the discussion about Murray vs. Minshew, cbus did.

You make some good points, but when you wrap up your post with, "but okay, Murray is the best ever and there's no debate. Put him in the ring of honor," it's not conducive to constructive debate.

And not to single you out, since you're not the only one who fueled a Murray argument in this thread, but when a thread is titled, "Starting to warm to Simmons", maybe people could just let the Murray arguments go and take them to more appropriate threads.

...dbs

 

[Solar7]

You make some good points, but when you wrap up your post with, "but okay, Murray is the best ever and there's no debate. Put him in the ring of honor," it's not conducive to constructive debate.

And not to single you out, since you're not the only one who fueled a Murray argument in this thread, but when a thread is titled, "Starting to warm to Simmons", maybe people could just let the Murray arguments go and take them to more appropriate threads.

...dbs

The argument presented here was functionally a Keim argument too. I'm not gonna let anyone get away with saying Keim is doing a good job because one of his players has been good.

That ties into Simmons to some degree. In fact, every thread about every potential draftee will probably call Keim into question.

Certainly there will be a lot more clarity once the first few weeks of Free Agency have wrapped up.

 

[DVontel]

I really change my tune on who I want every two days.


Wirfs in the first & Nick Harris in the second is salivating.

 

[Solar7]

I really change my tune on who I want every two days.


Wirfs in the first & Nick Harris in the second is salivating.

I'd really celebrate with you on that one. A great offensive line would make us unstoppable on offense eventually.

 

[pinetopred]

Tampa took Devin White at #5, and the Steelers took Devin Bush last year at #10 -- last year

Minkah Fitzpatrick, S went at #11 in '18
Jamal Adams went #6 in '17

Kuechly at #9 in '12

we will see about the Devin twins from last year, but it looks like if you are a ILB or a S and get taken high, it means you are a really good player

 

[pinetopred]

Tampa took Devin White at #5, and the Steelers took Devin Bush last year at #10 -- last year

Minkah Fitzpatrick, S went at #11 in '18
Jamal Adams went #6 in '17

Kuechly at #9 in '12

we will see about the Devin twins from last year, but it looks like if you are a ILB or a S and get taken high, it means you are a really good player

So we are at 5 at two positions in 10 years I'm not good or bad either way, at this point in draft and FA process alot of time in between but agree if you think that guy can be great you take them

 

[pinetopred]

Is Simmons a 3-4 ILB a 3-4 safety or a unicorn that you change a defense base to fit his talent, because IMO that's what you would have to do, not sure we have the other personnel in place to go with a 4-2-5 college type defense I'm not saying he can't hold up as 3-4 ILB I'm saying he won't be able to for at least a couple years JMO.