The Young Receivers

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
10,743
Reaction score
22,497
Location
Orlando, FL
I thought this deserved its own thread. Last year SK seemed to decide if he drafted a handful of receivers surely he’d hit on one. So far his strategy has not been proved correct. In fairness many receivers don’t blossom until year 2. That said, many don’t blossom at all. For Butler 2020 is basically year one and I’m not hearing rave reviews on his practices. As a round 2 pick, Isabella has to be labeled a disappointment, but even if he steps forward, how far can he be expected to move. Johnson seemed to start fast but hit a wall too quickly. Then there’s second year WR Kirk. He proves WR don’t always leap forward in year 2. Any hope of him being a number 1, seems to have vanished. Fitz is back, which is great news, but he’s clearly no longer a game breaker.

So where does that leave KK’s offense. Sure there’s s couple of veteran speed options but a power passing game needs a power receiver. Many see Jeudy as the top receiver. He’s certainly the more traditional number one in a standard offense. He runs great routes and that means separation. Sadly that separation typically comes somewhat downfield. A fast paced offense needs a receiver accustomed to making adjustments to that style. Rapport between a QB & WR can take a couple of years to build. The Cards can buy it with a draft pick.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,002
Reaction score
14,417
Location
Plainfield, Il.
Let’s face it , Harry. Every player drafted is a hit or miss. I truly feel the defense needs a lot of help but if Keim does the right thing and stock up on defense in free agency I think Lamb would be great and the chemistry would be quick with Lamb and Kyler. There is only so much money to go around so bringing in a fa wr is not going to happen.

I don’t want the defense depending on 2 or 3 rookies. We can’t fix everything this year. The offense, if we just kept it status quo should improve a little just with the experience.

One other thing. You can’t pass on a player because you drafted two or three players at that position last year. That is simply living with mistakes.
 

imaCafan

Next stop, Hall of Fame!
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
3,567
Reaction score
835
Location
Needles, Ca.
While on IR, players may not practice with their team at any time, but can attend team meetings and be around the team.
 
OP
OP
Harry

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
10,743
Reaction score
22,497
Location
Orlando, FL
Wait...Butler is allowed to practice? I thought he was not allowed to practice with the team ever since he went on IR?

I am probably missing something.
I was referring to discussions I’ve had about his pre-injury practices. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.
 

SoonerLou

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Posts
7,710
Reaction score
11,235
Location
St Louis, MO
We are in the point we have more hope for Butler cause he didn't play a snap
In a weird way Butler being picked in the 2nd round (IR for the full season) and Andy being a 4th rounder who just had rookie troubles goes over better.

Its still tough to count on Butler when a guy who needs reps...gets zero for a full year. I truly hope they all are just late bloomers.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,031
Reaction score
37,086
Location
UK
"Keim has missed on his last 4 WR picks"

"Keim has missed on all his 1st round picks except Kyler"

"Lets pick a 1st round WR"

Lets give the guys we have a chance first. The fact is, we are judging them all based on playing with a rookie QB that was held back. I recall several times a WR was open down field but Kyler threw to a pre determined first read.

Lets give them all time. There's always the draft in 2021.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
37,879
Reaction score
20,470
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
"Keim has missed on his last 4 WR picks"

"Keim has missed on all his 1st round picks except Kyler"

"Lets pick a 1st round WR"

Lets give the guys we have a chance first. The fact is, we are judging them all based on playing with a rookie QB that was held back. I recall several times a WR was open down field but Kyler threw to a pre determined first read.

Lets give them all time. There's always the draft in 2021.

Poke and hope reasoning. If that reasoning doesn't work out--especially considering it takes time for WRs to develop--KM might not have the weapons he needs until 2022. I'd prefer not to pray a few--not one, but a few--of those youngsters pans out. Let's face it: we need more than one new or developed WR to get this offense going.
 

TheCardFan

Things have changed.
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
12,028
Reaction score
14,549
Location
Charlotte
If Lamb or Jeudy are Julio Jones/Michel Thomas type players...I think you draft one at 8.

If they are not that type of player, then you let one of the big guys fall to you (Okudah, Thomas, Simmons)

My dream draft at this point would be:

1st Lamb/Jeudy (if they are that type of player)
2nd - Mekhi Becton
3rd - Trey Adams, Matt Peart, Isiah Wilson, Alex Taylor, Robert Hunt

I would love to see this offense with a great OL, #1 WR, and a RB like Drake.

You simply can't count on the current WR room for next year.

Fix the D in free agency.
 

pinetopred

Registered
Joined
May 17, 2002
Posts
756
Reaction score
215
In a weird way Butler being picked in the 2nd round (IR for the full season) and Andy being a 4th rounder who just had rookie troubles goes over better.

Its still tough to count on Butler when a guy who needs reps...gets zero for a full year. I truly hope they all are just late bloomers.
A vet QB can make a young WR look decent even if they lack. A young QB probably will struggle making a young WR look decent, they are mostly just throwing first reads and not going thru progressions. JMO
 

Garthshort

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
9,001
Reaction score
4,860
Location
Scarsdale, NY
Brown (DL) got a lot of love, on this board, early on, but now I see very little posted about him. Is he a defensive difference maker?
 

gimpy

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Posts
3,043
Reaction score
2,546
Location
Flagstaff, Az
If Lamb or Jeudy are Julio Jones/Michel Thomas type players...I think you draft one at 8.

If they are not that type of player, then you let one of the big guys fall to you (Okudah, Thomas, Simmons)

My dream draft at this point would be:

1st Lamb/Jeudy (if they are that type of player)
2nd - Mekhi Becton
3rd - Trey Adams, Matt Peart, Isiah Wilson, Alex Taylor, Robert Hunt

I would love to see this offense with a great OL, #1 WR, and a RB like Drake.

You simply can't count on the current WR room for next year.

Fix the D in free agency.

Well? Do you take one or not at 8? Yes or no? :)
 

TheCardFan

Things have changed.
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
12,028
Reaction score
14,549
Location
Charlotte
Well? Do you take one or not at 8? Yes or no? :)

That's not my call...leave that up to the scouts.

If one of those guys has that level of talent...you take them easily. Again, the economics of getting an elite #1 WR in FA is approaching 20m/year.

That is also why I am a fan of taking a LT early if DJ doesn't agree to a prove it deal. You can't pay an average/injury prone LT 16m/year. That 16m/year guy needs to be a stud (like Lane Johnson). I hate to see another #1 pick walk out the door but I would rather have an impact player for that money.

I would take a couple of OL in the draft. We can take advantage of having a coach like Kruger to identify and develop the best OL possible. The time is now.
 

juza76

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
13,672
Reaction score
9,384
Location
milan-italy
Brown (DL) got a lot of love, on this board, early on, but now I see very little posted about him. Is he a defensive difference maker?
He play a position where there are some good players available in march
Considering we need to fill many holes, I would go with one of the top WRs, tackle's or Simmons
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,002
Reaction score
14,417
Location
Plainfield, Il.
How do WE know what Kugler and his assistants believes? He might be totally happy with the talent he has to work with and the progress they’ve made. If HE’S happy, I’m happy no matter what all of us ‘experts’ feel.

Look what he did with Murray in 1/2 a season. I’m sure he’d love to have 5 all-pro starters but let’s be real. This o-line is way better today than we ever dreamed it would at this time last year.

We can’t lose focus of continuity of an offensive line. I’m sure the staff gets together to put their collective grades of their group. A lineman that can pass block and run block at an “8” may be more desirable than one that can pass block at a “9” but run block at a “7”.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,031
Reaction score
37,086
Location
UK
How do WE know what Kugler and his assistants believes? He might be totally happy with the talent he has to work with and the progress they’ve made. If HE’S happy, I’m happy no matter what all of us ‘experts’ feel.

Look what he did with Murray in 1/2 a season. I’m sure he’d love to have 5 all-pro starters but let’s be real. This o-line is way better today than we ever dreamed it would at this time last year.

We can’t lose focus of continuity of an offensive line. I’m sure the staff gets together to put their collective grades of their group. A lineman that can pass block and run block at an “8” may be more desirable than one that can pass block at a “9” but run block at a “7”.

I'm sure Mitch will have an article soon telling us exactly what Kugler thinks...

I'm OK with keeping Murray at RT. We have to find some value this off season to improve elsewhere and a 600k starting right tackle that had a 63 grade is excellent value.

The thing is his grades greatly improved. At the end of the season he was regularly grading 70+ and actually better than Hump. He's on a good trajectory if he can carry that on.
 

cardpa

Have a Nice Day!
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
7,311
Reaction score
3,956
Location
Monroe NC
It seems many are saying fix the defense in free agency. That is great if you can do that however the one sticking point is you have to hope that any free agents the team pursues are willing to come to Arizona. It wan't all that long ago free agents came to AZ to try and push up the contract terms with another team with little or no real intention of signing with the Cardinals. I guess the real question is how much of a preferred destination is AZ for the available free agents?
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,031
Reaction score
37,086
Location
UK
It seems many are saying fix the defense in free agency. That is great if you can do that however the one sticking point is you have to hope that any free agents the team pursues are willing to come to Arizona. It wan't all that long ago free agents came to AZ to try and push up the contract terms with another team with little or no real intention of signing with the Cardinals. I guess the real question is how much of a preferred destination is AZ for the available free agents?

The other factor is... we can't fix the defense in FA and sign Hump, AQ, Drake, Hundley etc. We just can't afford both.
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
10,973
Reaction score
11,582
Location
Las Vegas, NV
How do WE know what Kugler and his assistants believes? He might be totally happy with the talent he has to work with and the progress they’ve made. If HE’S happy, I’m happy no matter what all of us ‘experts’ feel.

Look what he did with Murray in 1/2 a season. I’m sure he’d love to have 5 all-pro starters but let’s be real. This o-line is way better today than we ever dreamed it would at this time last year.

We can’t lose focus of continuity of an offensive line. I’m sure the staff gets together to put their collective grades of their group. A lineman that can pass block and run block at an “8” may be more desirable than one that can pass block at a “9” but run block at a “7”.
You and I have had this battle across many threads, so I won't belabor the point too much, but saying "I'm sure he'd love to have 5 all-pro starters" is putting the cart before the horse. It's laughable that we don't have even one guy who could sniff a Pro Bowl nod to be a backup.

As far as the receiver room goes in the conversation of drafting one at #8, let me approach this from a position of optimism and pretend the team has re-signed Hump and solved the RT position in FA with someone like Conklin, and the rest of our holes at starters across the roster have been addressed to some degree. In this case, I probably end up leaning Lamb, although Jeudy may develop into the better player overall.

His existing chemistry with Kyler is a major plus for a quick impact, plus the relative familiarity with the he offense, which I think can be accelerated even more as KM and he work together to translate concepts from Oklahoma's offense into what Kyler already has a strong understanding of.

Because this room is so young, I really need to see a young player emerge in 2020 if we draft a guy, because 2021 should be Kyler's year to have no excuses, and have genuine deep playoff/Super Bowl aspirations. I don't want to screw the kid over by having a room of Jeudy/Lamb, Kirk, Isabella, Butler, and Johnson with no guy having ever crested above the 1,000 yard mark (just ended another post with this same sentiment, but hey, it's Saturday, I'm hungover, and original thought isn't my forte at the moment).
 

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,148
Reaction score
6,585
If Keim strategy was to hit on 1 out of 3 receivers, that’s ignorant.

The Cards are likely taking Lamb if Kyler wants him. They’ve invested their whole franchise on Murray. They’re going to give him what he wants.

For the Murray fanatics, that’s not a rip on Murray.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,002
Reaction score
14,417
Location
Plainfield, Il.
You and I have had this battle across many threads, so I won't belabor the point too much, but saying "I'm sure he'd love to have 5 all-pro starters" is putting the cart before the horse. It's laughable that we don't have even one guy who could sniff a Pro Bowl nod to be a backup.

As far as the receiver room goes in the conversation of drafting one at #8, let me approach this from a position of optimism and pretend the team has re-signed Hump and solved the RT position in FA with someone like Conklin, and the rest of our holes at starters across the roster have been addressed to some degree. In this case, I probably end up leaning Lamb, although Jeudy may develop into the better player overall.

His existing chemistry with Kyler is a major plus for a quick impact, plus the relative familiarity with the he offense, which I think can be accelerated even more as KM and he work together to translate concepts from Oklahoma's offense into what Kyler already has a strong understanding of.

Because this room is so young, I really need to see a young player emerge in 2020 if we draft a guy, because 2021 should be Kyler's year to have no excuses, and have genuine deep playoff/Super Bowl aspirations. I don't want to screw the kid over by having a room of Jeudy/Lamb, Kirk, Isabella, Butler, and Johnson with no guy having ever crested above the 1,000 yard mark (just ended another post with this same sentiment, but hey, it's Saturday, I'm hungover, and original thought isn't my forte at the moment).
Any opinion I have is based on the Assumption Humphries is signed and the rest of the offense remains the same.

That being said the remaining cap space would be directed to defense. I think that could land us 1 splash signing ( perhaps )and two solid top notch second tier. I’m looking at De, ILB, OLB and a Dt.

honestly we may have to hope Reddick can Handle the OLB or we hit on a draft pick.

if we do this I can live with just about anybody in the draft at #8.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
534,778
Posts
5,246,227
Members
6,273
Latest member
sarahmoose
Top