Hornets @ Suns Sunday game thread 1-12-20

[Yuma]

I have to give Ayton credit tonight. He scored his points going TO the basket. That is how he should play! The Hornets did a good job of not fouling him. However, he plays going to the baskey he will get way more free throws. He should get ten a game.

 

[BC867]

Sorry but modern NBA is that you need to have multiple playmaking skills to be a dominant big man. The rule changes don't allow for some big post presence to be a stud without outside shooting or ballhandling. If you don't have those your only real option is to develop into a Javale McGee/Whiteside/Drummond like rim runner.

So really it's your novice bball IQ (and the Suns front office of course) that is the real problem. Basically we never should have drafted an an 80's/90's era big man at #1 overall in 2018. And since we did, it's plainly obvious that since his best playmaking skill is his jumpshot, that needs to be extended to the 3 point line.

Shouldn't any Center -- #1 pick or not -- include facing contact (whether driving to the basket or rebounding)
in his skill set? Even in 2020? NBA basketball may have evolved, but to the point of a Center playing like a Wing?

 

[1Sun]

Well he is 15 in PER for rookies

I mean it's not good but not as bad as painted

Almost like saying Ayton sucks

He had three or four fantastic games early on, which boosted that number. He has been garbage for well over a month now, and the team's play has slipped noticeably every time he is on the court. Also, a lot of other rookies have far further to go in their development, so PER is a misleading stat here. A lot of younger rookies are barely getting playing time as they learn how to play basketball.

His defense is as bad as Saric's, he can't rebound, he can't put the ball on the floor, he can't pass, he is ridiculously passive, and he is remarkably slow and unathletic. If he isn't hitting the spot-up jumper, he brings absolutely nothing to the table.

And it's not like he is young and inexperienced, such that there is room for development. This is who he is.

Basically, with the stationary jump shot instead of passing ability, Cam is the one-dimensional bust with no ability to develop further that Kendall Marshall was.

 

[1Sun]

Cam is still a plus offensively but he’s probably the worst rotational player defensively. I don’t see it improving because his physical upside is capped. He needs to be an elite 3pt shooter to become an even-impact player which is fine for a 8-9th man. The problem I think is Jones saw himself as a player in Cam.

I will take that a step further. I think that in terms of the entire roster and rotation, Jones is obsessively over-emphazising players who remind Jones of himself as a player.

Oh, and I think we are now seeing quite clearly that there's a snowball's chance in Phoenix in June of Cam becoming an elite 3pt shooter.

 

[Bufalay]

Sorry but modern NBA is that you need to have multiple playmaking skills to be a dominant big man. The rule changes don't allow for some big post presence to be a stud without outside shooting or ballhandling. If you don't have those your only real option is to develop into a Javale McGee/Whiteside/Drummond like rim runner.

So really it's your novice bball IQ (and the Suns front office of course) that is the real problem. Basically we never should have drafted an an 80's/90's era big man at #1 overall in 2018. And since we did, it's plainly obvious that since his best playmaking skill is his jumpshot, that needs to be extended to the 3 point line.

What rule says a center can’t dominate in the nba anymore? Would Shaq suck since he couldn’t shoot 3s? Aytons problem is that he has no ability to create his own shot. He’s like a worse shooting worse defense Shawn Marion.

 

[Bufalay]

Excellent point coming from a guy who can't go five seconds without saying 'Ayton sucks' when he clearly doesn't.

He’s a #1 pick who will never be an all star, picked over a potential multi time mvp. Kind of sucks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

just following the box score on line, looked like Ayton's 6 points and 4 boards in the fourth were big keys to getting the W. stoked to see that. want much more of it.

 

[Proximo]

He’s a #1 pick who will never be an all star, picked over a potential multi time mvp. Kind of sucks.

It is way premature to say he will never be an all star.

 

[Bufalay]

It is way premature to say he will never be an all star.

I know, I just don’t see it.

 

[SirStefan32]

Got distracted so I just now finished watching the 4th quarter. Overall it was an ugly win, but there was a lot of good stuff. Defense was solid, Ayton played very well. Bridges, Rubio, and Okobo scored a little as well.

 

[elindholm]

I wonder whether Ayton is (relatively) lacking in lower-body strength or explosiveness. His reluctance to jump up more than a few inches is really weird. Those who watch college sports, could Ayton jump at Arizona? I mean actually jump, not throw down dunks that he can do basically flat-footed. What's his vertical supposed to be?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Well this win means we are 5-5 in our last 10. Doesn't feel as good as I said it would a few days ago. Hopefully it is a sign for at least starting to play something close to .500 ball. That's really all we need to do for now to hang around the 8th seed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I am telling you guys, one of these games Ayton is going to tear it up... as in 30, 15, and 5. I'm probably gonna regret saying this, but I think tonight is the night.

Welp, no.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well this win means we are 5-5 in our last 10. Doesn't feel as good as I said it would a few days ago. Hopefully it is a sign for at least starting to play something close to .500 ball. That's really all we need to do for now to hang around the 8th seed.

The Suns are not playing well but for them to be .500 over their last 10 games is a start. I'm hoping they are developing team chemistry for a run but it feels like they need one more player to contribute. Whether that player is on the roster, I'm not sure. It would help if Cam got in a shooting grove.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's a coaching problem.

Baynes bricking four 3's and nearly fouling out every game is okay, Ayton putting up 15/10 with plus defense is not. Got it. Maybe Ayton needs to be more theatric and scowl harder.

He obviously got benched becasue he’s the guy who coach meant when he said not everyone is buying in. I mean, he’s the only that got benched. We heard the coaches talk about bully ball without Ayton doing it. It was pretty obvious. So while Ayton is a better basketball player than baynes, apparently he’s not taking coaching. And in the long run, if that keeps up, that’s a freaking disaster.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

He obviously got benched becasue he’s the guy who coach meant when he said not everyone is buying in. I mean, he’s the only that got benched. We heard the coaches talk about bully ball without Ayton doing it. It was pretty obvious. So while Ayton is a better basketball player than baynes, apparently he’s not taking coaching. And in the long run, if that keeps up, that’s a freaking disaster.

Ayton is closing games and that is a much bigger sign of trust than starting. If they had lost trust in him (which it sounds like you are suggesting) than why are they trusting him to help bring home wins at the end of the game?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sorry but modern NBA is that you need to have multiple playmaking skills to be a dominant big man. The rule changes don't allow for some big post presence to be a stud without outside shooting or ballhandling. If you don't have those your only real option is to develop into a Javale McGee/Whiteside/Drummond like rim runner.

So really it's your novice bball IQ (and the Suns front office of course) that is the real problem. Basically we never should have drafted an an 80's/90's era big man at #1 overall in 2018. And since we did, it's plainly obvious that since his best playmaking skill is his jumpshot, that needs to be extended to the 3 point line.

Your solution is to make him a bigger wuss?!?

 

[itlnsunsfan]

I wonder whether Ayton is (relatively) lacking in lower-body strength or explosiveness. His reluctance to jump up more than a few inches is really weird. Those who watch college sports, could Ayton jump at Arizona? I mean actually jump, not throw down dunks that he can do basically flat-footed. What's his vertical supposed to be?

This says he has a 43.5" vertical. Definitely one of the best vert's in the league for a big man, if not the best.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.az...-recruiting-2017-roster-depth-chart-nba-draft

 

[Phrazbit]

He obviously got benched becasue he’s the guy who coach meant when he said not everyone is buying in. I mean, he’s the only that got benched. We heard the coaches talk about bully ball without Ayton doing it. It was pretty obvious. So while Ayton is a better basketball player than baynes, apparently he’s not taking coaching. And in the long run, if that keeps up, that’s a freaking disaster.

In that particular game (the one that was followed by the "buying in" line), it was Baynes that got glued to the bench in the 2nd half. And even with Ayton not starting, he is still getting the starter's share of the minutes.

IMO the "starting" situation is being over analyzed. I think Monty is trying to get back the chemistry the team had the first 10 games, before people got banged up, and this is the starting line that we featured.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

What rule says a center can’t dominate in the nba anymore? Would Shaq suck since he couldn’t shoot 3s? Aytons problem is that he has no ability to create his own shot. He’s like a worse shooting worse defense Shawn Marion.

Shaq would be closer to a Drummond, Gobert, or prime DAJ than what he was in today's game. Zone defenses, refs swallowing their whistles on post-ups, and most notably the metrics pointing out the inefficiency of such a strategy have neutralized traditional post players.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Shaq would be closer to a Drummond, Gobert, or prime DAJ than what he was in today's game. Zone defenses, refs swallowing their whistles on post-ups, and most notably the metrics pointing out the inefficiency of such a strategy have neutralized traditional post players.

Lol. No.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Your solution is to make him a bigger *****?!?

Go ask any NBA general manager about the efficiency of a back to the basket post up play when the offensive player is a limited ball handler/passer.

Based on his skill set, it's an easier road for Ayton to become more of a shooter than a post player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

just following the box score on line, looked like Ayton's 6 points and 4 boards in the fourth were big keys to getting the W. stoked to see that. want much more of it.

Ayton was a huge presence in the fourth both on offense and defense. We are starting to get a glimpse.

 

[1Sun]

Ayton was a huge presence in the fourth both on offense and defense. We are starting to get a glimpse.

Which means James Jones is about to shut it down in favor of a guy who just chucks up 22 foot jumpers and does nothing else...

 

[JCSunsfan]

I wonder whether Ayton is (relatively) lacking in lower-body strength or explosiveness. His reluctance to jump up more than a few inches is really weird. Those who watch college sports, could Ayton jump at Arizona? I mean actually jump, not throw down dunks that he can do basically flat-footed. What's his vertical supposed to be?

He measured a 43.5 inch vertical at McHale in college. Dont think that is the problem.