Mavericks @ Suns Friday game thread 11-29-19

[Mainstreet]

Now you’re comparing Booker to Tim Hardaway Jr.?

How far we fall after a loss...

Of course I'm talking about the role Booker would have on the Suns if they had drafted Doncic.

 

[95pro]

Booker needs to shoot then score then pass then create. In that order for me.

Idk if he’s trying to prove a point or what but he’s too passive, he has no right at this stage in his career to think he has the right to prove a point to coaching.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't get to watch games much anymore, so it's hard for me to have an opinion on Bridges's athleticism. But I always felt he was undersized. I know the numbers disagree, but he has always looked like a Walter Davis build to me. Davis had the quickness and shooting stroke to make it as a SG even in today's league, but he wouldn't be able to play SF like he did in his career. Bridges is a miniature SF with no stand-out skill to compensate for his lack of size.

I don't think he's undersized all that much. He's 6'7 with pretty long arms. He just isn't super-athletic. There's no quick burst to his game whatsoever. And his lack of handles, which is something totally in his control, just hurt him even more. A guy who's not explosive and can't really handle the rock... or shoot is an absolutely deadly combination on offense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Of course I'm talking about the role Booker would have on the Suns if they had drafted Doncic.

thought that was pretty clear.

 

[Chaplin]

thought that was pretty clear.

And Doncic on the Mavs wouldn’t be the same on the Suns and you damn well know it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I don't think he's undersized all that much. He's 6'7 with pretty long arms. He just isn't super-athletic. There's no quick burst to his game whatsoever. And his lack of handles, which is something totally in his control, just hurt him even more. A guy who's not explosive and can't really handle the rock... or shoot is an absolutely deadly combination on offense.

Was at the game and watching him in person, his deficiencies that you have accurately called out, are just glaring. That said, he and Booker were the best defenders on the court last night for the Suns. Especially Bridges, who is rangy and his long-ish arms definitely play a factor in his ability to be disruptive.
If he had the ability (or desire), to be more of a scorer, he’d be a terrific bench asset. But man he just doesn’t seem to have the mindset to be more aggressive on offensive. It seems that whenever he touches the ball on offense, he immediately looks to pass.
So in short, it appears his only contribution to the team is an off the bench defensive specialist... Just not sure that will lead to a sustained presence at the NBA level...

 

[82CardsGrad]

And Doncic on the Mavs wouldn’t be the same on the Suns and you damn well know it.

Not sure exactly what you mean? But if Doncic was on the Suns, I’m pretty sure he’d still be the main offensive weapon and the consistent go-to guy... He’d still be the guy with the ball in his hands the majority of the time.
Booker would produce a lot like Hardaway did last night...with Doncic the clear #1 offensive threat.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And Doncic on the Mavs wouldn’t be the same on the Suns and you damn well know it.

I'm not sure I understand this statement. Doncic has basically played with three completely different lineups (pre-All-Star trade Mavs, post-All-Star trade Mavs, this season's Mavs) so far in his very young career and as all of the players around him changed considerably, his game did as well, only getting better and better through his career. I think he'd be pretty great on pretty much any team, especially one as desperate as we were before last year's draft for a PG. Do I think he'd be averaging 30/10/10 every game? No. But I don't think he'd have to. He'd be probably throw up an equally ridiculous 25/12/10 every game because he'd have a legit #2 like Booker to take a little offensive pressure off him.

What do you think Doncic would be like on the Suns?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Was at the game and watching him in person, his deficiencies that you have accurately called out, are just glaring. That said, he and Booker were the best defenders on the court last night for the Suns. Especially Bridges, who is rangy and his long-ish arms definitely play a factor in his ability to be disruptive.
If he had the ability (or desire), to be more of a scorer, he’d be a terrific bench asset. But man he just doesn’t seem to have the mindset to be more aggressive on offensive. It seems that whenever he touches the ball on offense, he immediately looks to pass.
So in short, it appears his only contribution to the team is an off the bench defensive specialist... Just not sure that will lead to a sustained presence at the NBA level...

the only way it does is if he's not just a defensive specialist but literally one of THE best in the game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not sure exactly what you mean?
But if Doncic was on the Suns, I’m pretty sure he’d still be the main offensive weapon and the consistent go-to guy... He’d still be the guy with the ball in his hands the majority of the time.
Booker would produce a lot like Hardaway did last night...with Doncic the clear #1 offensive threat.

totally agree.

 

[95pro]

Once Ayton comes back the pieces will settle back into place. Booker can be the number 2 guy. Bridges can go back to focusing on his role. Baynes will be an awesome backup center, even more now that we know what he’s capable of.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Once Ayton comes back the pieces will settle back into place. Booker can be the number 2 guy. Bridges can go back to focusing on his role. Baynes will be an awesome backup center, even more now that we know what he’s capable of.

this assumes Ayton can be the legit number 1, right? Now, Ayton has all the physical tools to be that guy, but does he have the mental/emotional resolve to do it? That very much remains to be seen.

 

[95pro]

this assumes Ayton can be the legit number 1, right? Now, Ayton has all the physical tools to be that guy, but does he have the mental/emotional resolve to do it? That very much remains to be seen.

I am certainly not relying Booker to be that guy.

 

[Finito]

So Booker has been amazing for 4 years has an average month and he’s a bum now...ok sounds about right. Gotta love internet message boards.

Booker is fine he’s in his 5th year with like his 6th coach learning a whole different system again

 

[1Sun]

So Booker has been amazing for 4 years has an average month and he’s a bum now...ok sounds about right. Gotta love internet message boards.

Booker is fine he’s in his 5th year with like his 6th coach learning a whole different system again

Not a bum. Just not a #1 on a winning team. I think that has been quite clearly established at this point. If we want to contend, Booker needs to be our #2, just like Klay Thompson on the Warriors or Gordon Hayward on the Celtics.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not a bum. Just not a #1 on a winning team. I think that has been quite clearly established at this point. If we want to contend, Booker needs to be our #2, just like Klay Thompson on the Warriors or Gordon Hayward on the Celtics.

I have no problem with someone believing Booker isn't good enough to be a number 1 and right now even I have doubts but no, it has not been "established" at this point. It may be trite to say this but no one wins a championship until they do and there have been a lot of great players that never even won one. None of that necessarily means they weren't good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

How many fans (here and elsewhere) were saying something similar about Lebron before he finally won his first ring in his 9th season or Jordan who didn't win his until he was 28, I believe. Like I said, plenty of reasons to believe Booker can't be the main piece but nothing has been proved in this regard.

 

[1Sun]

I have no problem with someone believing Booker isn't good enough to be a number 1 and right now even I have doubts but no, it has not been "established" at this point. It may be trite to say this but no one wins a championship until they do and there have been a lot of great players that never even won one. None of that necessarily means they weren't good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

How many fans (here and elsewhere) were saying something similar about Lebron before he finally won his first ring in his 9th season or Jordan who didn't win his until he was 28, I believe. Like I said, plenty of reasons to believe Booker can't be the main piece but nothing has been proved in this regard.

But Booker has consistently either shrunk from the challenge or lost composure. We have never really seen from Booker even what we have seen from the likes of Doncic, Donovan Mitchell, Lillard and Jokic/Murray. Plus Booker in the end still has physical limitations in terms of athleticism, defense, ball handling and passing. Booker has looked amazing at times as a scorer individually, but he has never with any consistency led his team to any measure of success. All signs at this point suggest Booker can be a terrific #2 but isn't up to the challenge of being a #1.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So Booker has been amazing for 4 years has an average month and he’s a bum now...ok sounds about right. Gotta love internet message boards.

What I love more about message boards is the people who literally only see things in black and white. I can't imagine what it's like to live life in only absolutes.

No one said or even came close to intimating he's a bum. Saying he's a low-level #1 or a fantastic #2 means people think he's still a very very good player but just doesn't have the overall game that rises to the level of superstar. Why that's so hard to understand is beyond me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have no problem with someone believing Booker isn't good enough to be a number 1 and right now even I have doubts but no, it has not been "established" at this point. It may be trite to say this but no one wins a championship until they do and there have been a lot of great players that never even won one. None of that necessarily means they weren't good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

How many fans (here and elsewhere) were saying something similar about Lebron before he finally won his first ring in his 9th season or Jordan who didn't win his until he was 28, I believe. Like I said, plenty of reasons to believe Booker can't be the main piece but nothing has been proved in this regard.

Steve, come on... you're talking above about guys who couldn't win a title, but were still in the running every year or at least in the playoffs by the time they were 23. The only thing Book's been in the running for throughout his career has been the #1 pick in the draft. Now, that's not HIS fault. They aren't bad BECAUSE of him. But he's yet to show his game can lift a team for a significant amount of time, to really make them better than they have any business being. Those guys "who couldn't win the big one" until they did were still winning a lot of games and turning their teams into at minimum playoff participants. That just hasn't been anything close to the case with Book.

 

[1Sun]

Steve, come on... you're talking above about guys who couldn't win a title, but were still in the running every year or at least in the playoffs by the time they were 23. The only thing Book's been in the running for throughout his career has been the #1 pick in the draft. Now, that's not HIS fault. They aren't bad BECAUSE of him. But he's yet to show his game can lift a team for a significant amount of time, to really make them better than they have any business being. Those guys "who couldn't win the big one" until they did were still winning a lot of games and turning their teams into at minimum playoff participants. That just hasn't been anything close to the case with Book.

This. 100% this.

 

[Western Font]

Doncic gets star treatment but he has great footwork and way of moving inside that makes it look like defenders are making contact with him when it’s the reverse. It’s not flopping, but great footwork and, I don’t know, the gravity of a larger player?

I wish he were on our roster but I also think Ayton IS the answer to the roster we have right now. He can create room for Oubre to get in the paint, allow Baynes some needed bench time, give Rubio an option inside, and draw doubles to get Booker open. He CAN do all this anyway, I just hope he does, and with a vengeance.

 

[SirStefan32]

I still believe in both, Booker and Bridges. Book is learning how to play with an actual NBA team around him. Bridges is as good defensively as Booker is offensively, and he's been more aggressive cutting, driving to the rim, going after offensive rebounds, etc. He'll find his shot and he will be just fine.

 

[SirStefan32]

Doncic gets star treatment but he has great footwork and way of moving inside that makes it look like defenders are making contact with him when it’s the reverse. It’s not flopping, but great footwork and, I don’t know, the gravity of a larger player?

I wish he were on our roster but I also think Ayton IS the answer to the roster we have right now. He can create room for Oubre to get in the paint, allow Baynes some needed bench time, give Rubio an option inside, and draw doubles to get Booker open. He CAN do all this anyway, I just hope he does, and with a vengeance.

He really reminds me of a much bigger Nash. He gets knocked for his lack of "athleticism", but to me, foot work, balance, changing speeds, and all that nice stuff is a major part of athleticism. People also don't realize how big he is. I am not sure what his "listed" weight is, but that kid has 240lb+ on him. I see him routinely overpower PFs. He appears to have lost some fat and added some muscle compared to last season, and he is only going to get more impossible to defend as he gets stronger. His speed is also just fine for his size. I've never seen a player that can overpower bigger guys and outmaneuver the smaller, quicker players. He is also only 20 years old and in his second season. I knew he was gonna be good, but I had no idea he could get into the paints against anyone. The only way to stop him is to double-him behind the three-point line while keeping an eye on the runners around the rim and hoping his teammates miss open threes.

 

[elindholm]

I don't think he's undersized all that much. He's 6'7 with pretty long arms.

I know he's listed at 6' 7", but he looks a lot smaller than other 6' 7" players (to me).

 

[1Sun]

I still believe in both, Booker and Bridges. Book is learning how to play with an actual NBA team around him. Bridges is as good defensively as Booker is offensively, and he's been more aggressive cutting, driving to the rim, going after offensive rebounds, etc. He'll find his shot and he will be just fine.

The problem with Bridges is that while his offense isn't progressing, his defense is slipping...