Suns @ Warriors Wednesday 10-30-19 game thread

[Chaplin]

I don't think anyone disagrees with that, but that's not the reality. Good team, tough teams, and superstars gets the calls.

Of course you're correct. I'm just saying it shouldn't be like that. It gives too much power in the hands of people that should be, by definition, completely neutral.

 

[SirStefan32]

Of course you're correct. I'm just saying it shouldn't be like that. It gives too much power in the hands of people that should be, by definition, completely neutral.

Oh yeah, I definitely agree.

 

[Cheesebeef]

this board is as copacetic as I've ever seen it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the point is that for all these years, any conversation about the disparity in officiating is ridiculous. Superstars and good teams shouldn't get a preference. Period.

I think this perceived preference in officiating for superstars has put professional basketball on the edge of being an entertainment business as long as I can remember.

 

[Chaplin]

this board is as copacetic as I've ever seen it.

Winning does that I guess.

 

[devilalum]

this board is as copacetic as I've ever seen it.

It’s so pathetic


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[Cheesebeef]

It’s so pathetic


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huh?

 

[devilalum]

huh?

It’s from a song


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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the officiating issues will resolve themselves. Suns are just starting to build a reputation as a good, physical, scrappy team. They have been seen as "soft" for years. I think they will start getting calls in their favor eventually. Meanwhile, they just have to fight through it.

Absolutely. Have to build the rep in this league before you are rewarded for it. Just have to keep at it and maintain consistency. Play through the calls for now and eventually they’ll come.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Of course you're correct. I'm just saying it shouldn't be like that. It gives too much power in the hands of people that should be, by definition, completely neutral.

You’re right, but it’s also just not reality. And this isn’t only nba. The cornerbacks with the best reps get away with the most contact in the nfl. Pitchers with the best reps get tighter strike zones in mlb. In all sports the consistently best teams get better calls. And i don’t think it’s overt bias. I think it’s subconscious reputation-based bias. If I know so-and-so is a better “whatever” than you my mentality likely leans towards giving so-and-so the benefit of the doubt for close calls. And the better the player the likely greater the latitude my expectations probably create for that player.

 

[Russ Smith]

Baynes is one of those guys who drives opponents nuts, not because he's dirty IMO but he's physical. Sets a great screen. I remember him and Love getting into a shouting match in college because Love thought he was too physical.

Really good role player, tons of international experience too.

Definitely was a good pickup for the Suns.

My Warriors are dead in the water so I might as well root for the Suns this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I wish baynes wasn’t so old

 

[Hoop Head]

I wish baynes wasn’t so old

He's old but he doesn't have a lot of NBA miles on him, which is a plus. He'll be turning 33 in December and for comparison, Tyson Chandler was 33 when he signed with us. Think of how old he looked. He was entering his 15th season during his 1st year in Phoenix compared to Baynes entering his 8th. Baynes only averages 15 minutes a game for his career as well so he hasn't played a whole lot.

 

[BC867]

You and BC. Whoduh thunk it?

I am not sure about your question given how well Saric and Kaminski are playing. I tend to say no. Baynes play does show how important solid physical positional defense at the 5 is—even if it’s not shot blocking.

I based my opinion about that on still believing that a strong Center will
help us become a playoff contender more than a finesse Center, which
is what we've seen from Ayton. That is not a criticism of Ayton, but
rather of how he is used.

Considering that PF is our least solid position at this time, sliding Ayton
there upon his return would also cause the least amount of readjusting
for the rest of, what will hopefully be, a contending team.

Imagine the reaction if Ayton steps back into the role he played last
season and we start losing.

I also believe that Ayton will appreciate the pressure being taken off
him that he shouldered last season.

Plus, with the refs running wild in determining who is going to win,
especially when they lose their whistles during the stretch run and
in the playoffs, Baynes fits the role in the post more than Ayton.

 

[SirStefan32]

Baynes also has an old man's game. I don't think there will be a huge difference between Baynes at 33 and Baynes at 36.

 

[Phrazbit]

Baynes also has an old man's game. I don't think there will be a huge difference between Baynes at 33 and Baynes at 36.

I disagree with that. He is extremely physical, and I love it, but that style takes a toll.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I based my opinion about that on still believing that a strong Center will
help us become a playoff contender more than a finesse Center, which
is what we've seen from Ayton. That is not a criticism of Ayton, but
rather of how he is used.

Considering that PF is our least solid position at this time, sliding Ayton
there upon his return would also cause the least amount of readjusting
for the rest of, what will hopefully be, a contending team.

Imagine the reaction if Ayton steps back into the role he played last
season and we start losing.

I also believe that Ayton will appreciate the pressure being taken off
him that he shouldered last season.

Plus, with the refs running wild in determining who is going to win,
especially when they lose their whistles during the stretch run and
in the playoffs, Baynes fits the role in the post more than Ayton.

I disagree with one of your basic assumptions--Ayton is a finesse center. Just because he is skilled does not mean he is a finesse center?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Baynes also has an old man's game. I don't think there will be a huge difference between Baynes at 33 and Baynes at 36.

Yes. I was thinking this. His game is based upon strength, aggressiveness, and smarts. He can be effective until 38 or so I think unless other injuries take away his fire.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yes. I was thinking this. His game is based upon strength, aggressiveness, and smarts. He can be effective until 38 or so I think unless other injuries take away his fire.

Not that this means much and I could be thinking of someone else but I seem to remember one of the problems with Baynes is that he's lost games and playing time to a bunch of minor injuries. So, putting him in a heavy minutes spot in our rotation long term might not be feasible. And that suggests he probably would be better off as a 15 minute backup and playing for a real contender now.

I've loved watching him play so far but at the time of the deal I was convinced that we'd committed to moving him to a team of his choice at the deadline. I'm no longer "convinced" but it wouldn't surprise me if we gave him his wish and moved him to someone like the Lakers. I hope not though as the guy has been a good player and a great teammate so far.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not that this means much and I could be thinking of someone else but I seem to remember one of the problems with Baynes is that he's lost games and playing time to a bunch of minor injuries. So, putting him in a heavy minutes spot in our rotation long term might not be feasible. And that suggests he probably would be better off as a 15 minute backup and playing for a real contender now.

I've loved watching him play so far but at the time of the deal I was convinced that we'd committed to moving him to a team of his choice at the deadline. I'm no longer "convinced" but it wouldn't surprise me if we gave him his wish and moved him to someone like the Lakers. I hope not though as the guy has been a good player and a great teammate so far.

The Suns are going to need Baynes in the playoffs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns are going to need Baynes in the playoffs.

Yeah, let's hope. I have no idea what to expect though. I've seen far too many teams come out like gangbusters partly because they came into the season healthy and well-conditioned and took the league by surprise. Typically, those kind of teams fall off quite a bit a month or two into the season once all the other teams get fully up to speed and become more familiar with the playing style and player tendencies of the upstart teams.

I'm not saying we are one of those early starting teams, only that it will take some time to know for sure. One way or another though, this is a far better squad than we've put out there in years and Baynes is an important part of it - especially with Ayton out for 25 games (maybe).

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, let's hope. I have no idea what to expect though. I've seen far too many teams come out like gangbusters partly because they came into the season healthy and well-conditioned and took the league by surprise. Typically, those kind of teams fall off quite a bit a month or two into the season once all the other teams get fully up to speed and become more familiar with the playing style and player tendencies of the upstart teams.

I'm not saying we are one of those early starting teams, only that it will take some time to know for sure. One way or another though, this is a far better squad than we've put out there in years and Baynes is an important part of it - especially with Ayton out for 25 games (maybe).

It could be the Suns are one of those teams but I don't think so.

I feel the Suns have a chance at the playoffs for a few reasons that probably be debated:


1. The Suns have three pillars to build on: Ayton, Booker and Oubre.

2. Suns have role players to fill in the gaps. Finally they have NBA depth.

3. The addition of a point guard in Ricky Rubio. Point guard appears to be a plus for Suns with added players like Jevon Carter and Ty Jerome.

4. Coaching of Monty Williams

5. Related to #4, the Suns are built on defense.

6. And the Suns have the shooters to spread the court.


Anyway, that's how I view it.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Amazing win for the suns!!!

Bynes is an amazing pickup plays hard def rebounds well gets in good position and can contribute on offense

Also good to see Booker play well and have early season wins vs good teams

Big test in memphis at home hope they get the w no let down gm...

Go suns! Keep rising

 

[JCSunsfan]

Not that this means much and I could be thinking of someone else but I seem to remember one of the problems with Baynes is that he's lost games and playing time to a bunch of minor injuries. So, putting him in a heavy minutes spot in our rotation long term might not be feasible. And that suggests he probably would be better off as a 15 minute backup and playing for a real contender now.

I've loved watching him play so far but at the time of the deal I was convinced that we'd committed to moving him to a team of his choice at the deadline. I'm no longer "convinced" but it wouldn't surprise me if we gave him his wish and moved him to someone like the Lakers. I hope not though as the guy has been a good player and a great teammate so far.

If we thought we could not resign him, I would see this. But keeping him for the last half of the season just to spar with Ayton in practice and as example in games might be worth more than what we could get for him in trade.

If I am Monty, as part of DeAndre's "pennance" I have him watch tape of every minute Baynes spends on the court--maybe even two or three times.

I DA could get just a little bit of that screen setting and defensive awareness, it would be huge.

 

[Raze]

It could be the Suns are one of those teams but I don't think so.

I feel the Suns have a chance at the playoffs for a few reasons that probably be debated:


1. The Suns have three pillars to build on: Ayton, Booker and Oubre.

2. Suns have role players to fill in the gaps. Finally they have NBA depth.

3. The addition of a point guard in Ricky Rubio. Point guard appears to be a plus for Suns with added players like Jevon Carter and Ty Jerome.

4. Coaching of Monty Williams

5. Related to #4, the Suns are built on defense.

6. And the Suns have the shooters to spread the court.


Anyway, that's how I view it.

Good list, but

Your #4 is my #1 by a mile. It seems that whoever Monty puts out on the floor will run through a wall for him on O and D. Ricky, Jevon, Frank, Dario, Baynes... were not presumably highly sought after. Now each of their stock has taken a significant spike upwards. That is just a good HC getting everything he can out of his players.

Something to consider for the future: we've always had to trade players when their stock is rock bottom. With each of these players showing growth under Monty, there's a real possibility that we can trade these players when their stock is up (presuming we would want to trade them). It's been since Jerry Colangelo that this has occurred.