my too early 2020 offseason thread

[Veer]

What's this discussion all about? Leonard Williams was a legit top 10 talent and still is. He is playing very good on a bad team. Pro Bowl potential. He is miles better than any DL we have.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If he’s this solid player this board wants to perceive him as then why does a majority of his own team’s fanbase want him gone?

This is funny though. Guys criticize Budda for not making impact plays, yet, are banging the table for a top 6 overall pick DE that doesn’t either.

Being the best DL since Calais isn’t saying much at all considering who the DL has been since then.

QB hits ARE impact plays.

Did you see his hit on Brady that caused an interception?

 

[Chopper0080]

If he’s this solid player this board wants to perceive him as then why does a majority of his own team’s fanbase want him gone?

This is funny though. Guys criticize Budda for not making impact plays, yet, are banging the table for a top 6 overall pick DE that doesn’t either.

Being the best DL since Calais isn’t saying much at all considering who the DL has been since then.

So we have gone away from stats and moved on to what the "fan base wants" and "better than what we have had isn't saying much".

Personally, if I can get a defensive linemen who is better than Corey Peters and is 25 years old...I am getting him. I like what Corey Peters has done for this team, and that stats say Williams is even better.

 

[DVontel]

QB hits ARE impact plays.

Did you see his hit on Brady that caused an interception?

The coverage sack/hit?

The one where he finally did something of sort despite being down 24?

 

[Chopper0080]

I wish Keim would be dumb enough to pay a lot of money for some damn Leonard Williams.

me too

 

[DVontel]

So we have gone away from stats and moved on to what the "fan base wants" and "better than what we have had isn't saying much".

Personally, if I can get a defensive linemen who is better than Corey Peters and is 25 years old...I am getting him. I like what Corey Peters has done for this team, and that stats say Williams is even better.

We agree with getting a defensive lineman that is better than Corey Peters.

Unfortunately, that guy isn’t Leonard Williams.

Stats says one thing. Impact tells another. Something Leonard lacks.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

What is incredible is that suddenly the offensive line doesn't look like such a liability.

Pugh and Sweezy are signed through the 2020 season. Both appear to be playing well enough to, you know...

We'll need to resign Hump, and we'll probably have to replace Shipley, who's contract is up this year, and who is also about 57. Finally, we'll have to do something about RT.

But it doesn't look like we'll have to spend half our cap space and draft picks to fix this unit.

We can instead focus on the defense.

 

[overseascardfan]

What is incredible is that suddenly the offensive line doesn't look like such a liability.

Pugh and Sweezy are signed through the 2020 season. Both appear to be playing well enough to, you know...

We'll need to resign Hump, and we'll probably have to replace Shipley, who's contract is up this year, and is also about 57. Finally, we'll have to do something about RT.

But it doesn't look like we'll have to spend half our cap space and draft picks to fix this unit.

We can instead focus on the defense.

Not sure it’s the OL as much as it’s Murray running it himself more the last couple of weeks. If Murray stays in pocket, pressure is getting to him, he’s just bailing out his OL. Humphries seems like a penalty machine but surprisingly is just averaging one per game. I would rather have a cheaper upgrade in Andrew Thomas. I agree we need an upgrade at C and RT.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Not sure it’s the OL as much as it’s Murray running it himself more the last couple of weeks. If Murray stays in pocket, pressure is getting to him, he’s just bailing out his OL. Humphries seems like a penalty machine but surprisingly is just averaging one per game. I would rather have a cheaper upgrade in Andrew Thomas. I agree we need an upgrade at C and RT.

Thomas, University of Georgia, 6'5" and 320 pounds. Pretty highly decorated as just a sophomore, and even more decorated during his current Junior season campaign.

So I guess we're sure he's coming out this year? If so, I assume that he'll receive a 1st round draft grade, but you're right that he would still be cheaper than resigning Hump.

So we use our 1st round pick on a LTOTF. Interesting....

 

[PACardsFan]

Not sure it’s the OL as much as it’s Murray running it himself more the last couple of weeks. If Murray stays in pocket, pressure is getting to him, he’s just bailing out his OL. Humphries seems like a penalty machine but surprisingly is just averaging one per game. I would rather have a cheaper upgrade in Andrew Thomas. I agree we need an upgrade at C and RT.

Part of the allure of drafting K1 was that his multifaceted talents & elusiveness would make the OL look better than it really is. And that's exactly how it's playing out. A typical sit in the pocket statue would get crushed behind this current OL. But, I think the Cardinals would be fooling themselves if they think they can stand pat with this OL & continue to see this offense improve. Once the weather forced us to be one dimensional, it was real easy for the Giants to shut down our running game in the 2nd half. This won't be a decent OL until we can run the ball with success whenever the hell we want to. I definitely think we will extend Humphries, and we should. He does have that nastiness that I like, and with continued solid coaching & better decision making, he could develop into a pretty good LT. You're right that we need upgrades at C and RT. Pretty significant upgrades at that.

 

[Chopper0080]

Thomas, University of Georgia, 6'5" and 320 pounds. Pretty highly decorated as just a sophomore, and even more decorated during his current Junior season campaign.

So I guess we're sure he's coming out this year? If so, I assume that he'll receive a 1st round draft grade, but you're right that he would still be cheaper than resigning Hump.

So we use our 1st round pick on a LTOTF. Interesting....

I don't believe you can head into the draft with a glaring hole at LT. Especially if you are not going to be drafting in the top 2 or 3 of the draft. Lots of bad teams need a LT, and I don't think we are going to draft high enough to ensure we have a shot at Thomas.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Not a chance in hell he hits the market given how many targets he's gotten.

This... this is one position now the Falcons are comfortable about

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

High draft pick, still young. Per ESPN since he entered the league only 7 AFC players have more hits on the QB than Williams does. He's not a stud but he's a good 3-4 DE .

I only watched a bit of last night but he caused an INT, caused a couple of throwaways by Brady one of which eventually became a grounding call(with Brady like a big baby screaming "he was right there" to the ref when he clearly threw the ball away). He had a big stop in the backfield although it was in garbage time but it was a big loss.

He's not great but he's a good player, kind of guy i can see in the right scenario making that leap from good to really good.

If he isn't great like you say, then we shouldn't spend 15-19 million on him as said his cost will be. That's Aaron Donald type money on the DL & a big cap hit for us if he is just good. I'd rather draft the top rated DL with our 1st round pick than spend Aaron Donald money on a good player, the cost would be way cheaper & We could spread that money out at other positions of need. We also need LB'ers that can tackle & cover with speed.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

What is incredible is that suddenly the offensive line doesn't look like such a liability.

Pugh and Sweezy are signed through the 2020 season. Both appear to be playing well enough to, you know...

We'll need to resign Hump, and we'll probably have to replace Shipley, who's contract is up this year, and who is also about 57. Finally, we'll have to do something about RT.

But it doesn't look like we'll have to spend half our cap space and draft picks to fix this unit.

We can instead focus on the defense.

Move Humphries over to RT & hopefully draft the best LT we can get. Justin Murray has been improving every week, interested to see how he does against a strong Saints pass rush? I hope we keep Murray & Gilbert for depth next season. Hypothetically speaking, let's say Justin Murray plays so well against the murderers row schedule we have left to play that it makes it hard to get rid of him, then what? Humphries will cost quite a bit to keep after this season, it will be interesting to see how the Cardinals approach the OL.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Part of the allure of drafting K1 was that his multifaceted talents & elusiveness would make the OL look better than it really is. And that's exactly how it's playing out. A typical sit in the pocket statue would get crushed behind this current OL. But, I think the Cardinals would be fooling themselves if they think they can stand pat with this OL & continue to see this offense improve. Once the weather forced us to be one dimensional, it was real easy for the Giants to shut down our running game in the 2nd half. This won't be a decent OL until we can run the ball with success whenever the hell we want to. I definitely think we will extend Humphries, and we should. He does have that nastiness that I like, and with continued solid coaching & better decision making, he could develop into a pretty good LT. You're right that we need upgrades at C and RT. Pretty significant upgrades at that.

The holes this OL have been opening up have left me pretty impressed, love the way they've been pulling Guards & Tackles to run block & it's working. All this is because of the scheme & teaching ability of Sean Kugler, he is one of the best in the NFL. Interesting to see how much or what they do with the OL in the off-season. Do we go LT with our 1st pick or do we go best player on the DL regardless of position on the DL?

 

[Russ Smith]

If he isn't great like you say, then we shouldn't spend 15-19 million on him as said his cost will be. That's Aaron Donald type money on the DL & a big cap hit for us if he is just good. I'd rather draft the top rated DL with our 1st round pick than spend Aaron Donald money on a good player, the cost would be way cheaper & We could spread that money out at other positions of need. We also need LB'ers that can tackle & cover with speed.

Oh I agree with the premise I guess my point is when we were 0-3-1 I was looking at Chase Young, Jeudy etc because it looked like we could have a very high pick again. now we're 3-3-1, even with 3 wins against bad teams, it no longer seems like those sort of players are going to be on the board when we pick. So if you can get a good player without giving up a first pick, there's some value in it. If the Jets want a #1 for him forget it, but history says they wouldn't get one and I doubt we get a kid as good as him in say round 3 which is all it might take to get him right now.

But the Jets say he's not available so a moot point

 

[football karma]

https://overthecap.com/position/3-4-defensive-end/

list of 3/4 defensive ends by contract size

you can also scan through to see who will be a 2020 free agent as well

two other names that are 2020 FAs: Derek Wolfe of the Broncos, and Michael Brockers of the Rams. GEts pretty thin after that.

Brockers is a good player, but i wonder how much he benefits from playing next to the best defensive player/lineman in the NFL - and if you hate Williams stats, dont look at Brockers over the last two years.

In fact, both Brockers and Wolfe's production have gone down since signing their second contracts...... and they are 29 this season.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Oh I agree with the premise I guess my point is when we were 0-3-1 I was looking at Chase Young, Jeudy etc because it looked like we could have a very high pick again. now we're 3-3-1, even with 3 wins against bad teams, it no longer seems like those sort of players are going to be on the board when we pick. So if you can get a good player without giving up a first pick, there's some value in it. If the Jets want a #1 for him forget it, but history says they wouldn't get one and I doubt we get a kid as good as him in say round 3 which is all it might take to get him right now.

But the Jets say he's not available so a moot point

I'm watching the Ohio St -vs- Wisconsin game right now, Chase Young is an absolute beast, already made about 5 wow plays & the 1st Quarter just ended. Wouldn't break my heart one bit to draft that kid with our 1st pick.

 

[DVontel]

Move Humphries over to RT & hopefully draft the best LT we can get. Justin Murray has been improving every week, interested to see how he does against a strong Saints pass rush? I hope we keep Murray & Gilbert for depth next season. Hypothetically speaking, let's say Justin Murray plays so well against the murderers row schedule we have left to play that it makes it hard to get rid of him, then what? Humphries will cost quite a bit to keep after this season, it will be interesting to see how the Cardinals approach the OL.

Nah. Just keep Humphries at LT & draft a RT(if we’re out of Wirfs’ range, draft Lucas Niang).

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Nah. Just keep Humphries at LT & draft a RT(if we’re out of Wirfs’ range, draft Lucas Niang).

Would be nice to get your boy Andre Thomas but he will be gone by the time we pick. I'm watching the Ohio St -vs- Wisconsin game right now, Chase Young is an absolute beast, would love to get him also. He just got his 2nd sack of the game & the 2nd Quarter just started.

 

[overseascardfan]

I don't believe you can head into the draft with a glaring hole at LT. Especially if you are not going to be drafting in the top 2 or 3 of the draft. Lots of bad teams need a LT, and I don't think we are going to draft high enough to ensure we have a shot at Thomas.

Nah. Just keep Humphries at LT & draft a RT(if we’re out of Wirfs’ range, draft Lucas Niang).

Wow, you think Humphries is worth $12M - $15M a year? He will be looking for Trent Brown money and he is not worth it IMO.

LT in 2020 draft:
Andrew Thomas
Trey Adams
Alaric Jackson
Austin Jackson (sleeper pick)

ARZ could trade up to get Thomas if need be but of their remaining 9 games only CLE & TB look like possible W's. If we end up with 5 wins then I don't think we would be that far out of Thomas range. If we can't get Thomas in Round 1 maybe ARZ can take Austin Jackson in Round 2. I would rather use the FA money it would take Humphries to land a pass rusher than pay for a mediocre LT with his injury history and propensity for penalties (tied for 3rd in penalties among OT's this year.)

 

[Finito]

Wow, you think Humphries is worth $12M - $15M a year? He will be looking for Trent Brown money and he is not worth it IMO.

LT in 2020 draft:
Andrew Thomas
Trey Adams
Alaric Jackson
Austin Jackson (sleeper pick)

ARZ could trade up to get Thomas if need be but of their remaining 9 games only CLE & TB look like possible W's. If we end up with 5 wins then I don't think we would be that far out of Thomas range. If we can't get Thomas in Round 1 maybe ARZ can take Austin Jackson in Round 2. I would rather use the FA money it would take Humphries to land a pass rusher than pay for a mediocre LT with his injury history and propensity for penalties (tied for 3rd in penalties among OT's this year.)

hes 100% worth it because that’s what there going for. He’s much better than people here give him credit for. His play ain’t really the problem it’s staying healthy.

remember Levi Brown? Not that’s a bad LT

 

[Rohinaz]

https://overthecap.com/position/3-4-defensive-end/

list of 3/4 defensive ends by contract size

you can also scan through to see who will be a 2020 free agent as well

two other names that are 2020 FAs: Derek Wolfe of the Broncos, and Michael Brockers of the Rams. GEts pretty thin after that.

Brockers is a good player, but i wonder how much he benefits from playing next to the best defensive player/lineman in the NFL - and if you hate Williams stats, dont look at Brockers over the last two years.

In fact, both Brockers and Wolfe's production have gone down since signing their second contracts...... and they are 29 this season.

Brockers 2as good before Donald arrived. Hes a pro, would be a great addition and it would hurt the rams.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Solar7]

Wow, you think Humphries is worth $12M - $15M a year? He will be looking for Trent Brown money and he is not worth it IMO.

LT in 2020 draft:
Andrew Thomas
Trey Adams
Alaric Jackson
Austin Jackson (sleeper pick)

ARZ could trade up to get Thomas if need be but of their remaining 9 games only CLE & TB look like possible W's. If we end up with 5 wins then I don't think we would be that far out of Thomas range. If we can't get Thomas in Round 1 maybe ARZ can take Austin Jackson in Round 2. I would rather use the FA money it would take Humphries to land a pass rusher than pay for a mediocre LT with his injury history and propensity for penalties (tied for 3rd in penalties among OT's this year.)

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't, situation. There's not anyone that's an upgrade to Humphries in FA next year, and if you let Humphries go, you're 100% committed to taking an LT in the first round regardless of BPA. It'd be like Levi Brown all over again.

I'd rather at least franchise him and see if we can acquire a promising young guy to take over for him in a year.

 

[DVontel]

Wow, you think Humphries is worth $12M - $15M a year? He will be looking for Trent Brown money and he is not worth it IMO.

LT in 2020 draft:
Andrew Thomas
Trey Adams
Alaric Jackson
Austin Jackson (sleeper pick)

ARZ could trade up to get Thomas if need be but of their remaining 9 games only CLE & TB look like possible W's. If we end up with 5 wins then I don't think we would be that far out of Thomas range. If we can't get Thomas in Round 1 maybe ARZ can take Austin Jackson in Round 2. I would rather use the FA money it would take Humphries to land a pass rusher than pay for a mediocre LT with his injury history and propensity for penalties (tied for 3rd in penalties among OT's this year.)

Pretty much what Solar said. Humphries isn’t mediocre. He’s above-average if anything, & even those are hard to find.

Alaric Jackson also isn’t good, btw.