Kyler Murray Stat Line vs. Giants

[GatorAZ]

Those decisions were made before they knew how good the teams were going to be.

Ok. Just thought it was odd.

 

[SoonerLou]

Does anybody realize how many games the Seahawks have won when Wilson was 14 of 19 for 146 yards?

Do what you have to do to win. Funny when we were throwing the ball all over the place and losing we were saying we had to run the ball more. Now we win, run the bell more and there are some griping about the play calling and lack of passing.

I’m confused.

If you ask Seahawks fans they'll tell you how they called out the bad play calling during those wins as well. There's nothing wrong with wanting better or playing to win.

This was the 28th defense in the league and we shut it down once the rain really hit.

 

[Ronin]

Does anybody realize how many games the Seahawks have won when Wilson was 14 of 19 for 146 yards?

Do what you have to do to win. Funny when we were throwing the ball all over the place and losing we were saying we had to run the ball more. Now we win, run the bell more and there are some griping about the play calling and lack of passing.

I’m confused.

Or thrown 5 interceptions in the NFCCG.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Look..... On one hand you have to be happy with a 10am victory in New York.

On the other hand you have to temper that with how KK called plays, our inability to play in the rain, and the complete ineptitude of the team we played.

In the end, an ugly win is better than a beautiful loss.

Smile on the plane going home guys, but also use the time to fix your mistakes because we have a super tough game next week at (you guessed it) 10am.

I think that pretty fair Doctor.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

After some research it’s been approximately 255 offensive snaps since the Clowney INT.

It's impressive how well Murray takes care of the ball. It's the kind of intangible that separates average QBs from good QBs.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's impressive how well Murray takes care of the ball. It's the kind of intangible that separates average QBs from good QBs.

He doesn't take a lot of chances. That can be both good and bad.

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[TJ]

The offense as a whole slowed to a crawl after it dropped 17. It was reliant on great field position from turnovers in the second half, and even then, it wasn’t enough. Would’ve loved to have seen Murray be more aggressive rather than manage the game

 

[Russ Smith]

Their adjustment was to go to 6 and 7 DB's because we were running wide and they were too slow. it allowed them to cover our multiple WR sets and defend the wide runs without having to sub. Kliff kept trying to run wide(not reverses) and it got stuffed. I also felt like Chase got a litle fatigued without DJ to take some load.

When we did throw they had so many DB's in it was tough to push the ball downfield so lots of dumpoffs.

I also think after the sack and blocked punt mistake, Kyler got a bit gunshy.

In the end Jones had better yardage stats but 3 turnovers and it could have easily been 5, the dropped INT by Reddick and that one to Tate where PP I guess mistimed his jump and couldn't elevate, when he made that throw I thought for sure Patrick was going to pick it.

 

[Solar7]

This thread is confusing me. Am I about to defend KM against Crimson Warrior?

When your RB accounts for three long touchdowns, your QB doesn't have to put up huge numbers, especially when the rain starts coming down. If Edmonds doesn't play out of his mind, Murray gets more opportunities, and we could see what's up. KM could be the best QB in the NFL, but I'd be happy without him throwing a pass as long as we win running the ball.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

In the end Jones had better yardage stats but 3 turnovers and it could have easily been 5, the dropped INT by Reddick and that one to Tate where PP I guess mistimed his jump and couldn't elevate, when he made that throw I thought for sure Patrick was going to pick it.

There was also the fumble that the Giants O-lineman recovered. Really could have been as many as 6 turnovers and Kyler made one throw that maybe could have been picked, but wasn't.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

This thread is confusing me. Am I about to defend KM against Crimson Warrior?

When your RB accounts for three long touchdowns, your QB doesn't have to put up huge numbers, especially when the rain starts coming down. If Edmonds doesn't play out of his mind, Murray gets more opportunities, and we could see what's up. KM could be the best QB in the NFL, but I'd be happy without him throwing a pass as long as we win running the ball.

I somewhat get the hate for the play-calling in the 2nd half, but with the run game still working for a decent amount of the 2nd half and the rain really starting to come down it kind of made sense to get more conservative with the play-calling.

Bottom line is that the Cards put way more emphasis on ball security in this game than the Giants and that appears to have been the difference in this game.

 

[Solar7]

I somewhat get the hate for the play-calling in the 2nd half, but with the run game still working for a decent amount of the 2nd half and the rain really starting to come down it kind of made sense to get more conservative with the play-calling.

Bottom line is that the Cards put way more emphasis on ball security in this game than the Giants and that appears to have been the difference in this game.

I agree. It got hairy, but we played it right.

 

[dscher]

He doesn't take a lot of stupid chances.

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Ftfy

 

[SoonerLou]

He doesn't take a lot of chances. That can be both good and bad.

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It's impressive how well Murray takes care of the ball. It's the kind of intangible that separates average QBs from good QBs.

Saw him pushing the ball a lot early in the season. I think ultimately we don't have the kind of wrs that can seperate for him to truly trust them.

I've said his before but Andy Isabella essentially being a decoy and Hakeem Butler being on IR has limited the passing game.

Those two were supposed to be the speedsters. Hakeem the guy to throw jump balls/passes in traffic too. Andy the guy who can turn a 4 yard pass into 40.

All our wrs outside of Fitz are smurfs. Kirk is savvy, but not big catch radius. KJ has some potential, but looks like a 6th round pick at the moment.

I'm thinking WR needs to be a priority in FA/draft. Kirk has been hurt two straight years.

 

[SoonerLou]

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If he remains interception free (*healthy*) the next 3 games I'll be very impressed.

Although with the how tight the Saints play on wrs you're going to have throw in tight windows.

 

[CardLogic]

This thread is confusing me. Am I about to defend KM against Crimson Warrior?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

This thread is confusing me. Am I about to defend KM against Crimson Warrior?

When your RB accounts for three long touchdowns, your QB doesn't have to put up huge numbers, especially when the rain starts coming down. If Edmonds doesn't play out of his mind, Murray gets more opportunities, and we could see what's up. KM could be the best QB in the NFL, but I'd be happy without him throwing a pass as long as we win running the ball.

That does make sense, Solar7.

 

[daves]

QBR takes fumbles into account. Qb rating does not

True, and that's why the latter is officially called "passer rating", not QB rating - it only takes into account passing stats.

...dave

 

[kerouac9]

QBR actually has someone judge play.

QB Rating is just math.

Murray was significantly better than Jones. Jones lost that game for the Giants.

I don’t think that’s right, chief. I’m pretty sure QBR is also an algorithm, but it accounts for rushing and “clutch” situations. A TD when you’re down 30-6 matters less to QBR than it does to passer rating.

To the OP, Murray’s habit of settling for a six yard check down on third and nine is the most annoying thing about him for me. The passes that have no chance.

 

[gimpy]

Isn't that probably about 90% of today's qb's and routes run by receivers?

 

[kerouac9]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2019/week-7-quick-reads

Chase Edmonds and Murray get a nice writeup in Football Outsiders' Quick Reads this week.

You must be registered for see images attach

Click through to see the company Murray is keeping for rookie milestones.

 

[SoonerLou]

I don’t think that’s right, chief. I’m pretty sure QBR is also an algorithm, but it accounts for rushing and “clutch” situations. A TD when you’re down 30-6 matters less to QBR than it does to passer rating.

To the OP, Murray’s habit of settling for a six yard check down on third and nine is the most annoying thing about him for me. The passes that have no chance.

Uh how often has that been the past few weeks? His QBR has been because he's converting 3rd downs.

Also I think Kliff (when he's confident) has it set in his offense to get that 7 yard gain on 3rd and 9 so that they can go for it on 4th and 2.

 

[kerouac9]

Uh how often has that been the past few weeks? His QBR has been because he's converting 3rd downs.

Also I think Kliff (when he's confident) has it set in his offense to get that 7 yard gain on 3rd and 9 so that they can go for it on 4th and 2.

Yeah, but the running game has pretty consistently kept it manageable on 3rd downs. You're always dealing with small sample sizes when you're looking at 3rd and long situations (at least, hopefully), but these are the frustrating moments for me:

Cincy Game
3rd and 7: Kyler Murray pass incomplete short right intended for KeeSean Johnson
3rd and 9: Kyler Murray pass complete short middle to Maxx Williams for 7 yards (tackle by Nick Vigil and Preston Brown)
3rd and 4: Kyler Murray pass incomplete short right intended for KeeSean Johnson (defended by Dre Kirkpatrick)
3rd and 11: Kyler Murray pass complete short left to Chase Edmonds for 8 yards (tackle by Shawn Williams). Penalty on Kyler Murray: Illegal Motion (Declined)

Atlanta Game:
3rd and 10: Kyler Murray pass complete short right to Larry Fitzgerald for 8 yards (tackle by Ricardo Allen)
3rd and 10: Kyler Murray pass incomplete short right intended for KeeSean Johnson

Giants Game:
3rd and 7: Kyler Murray pass complete short left to Pharoh Cooper for 4 yards (tackle by Alec Ogletree and Antoine Bethea)
3rd and 6: Kyler Murray pass incomplete short middle intended for Larry Fitzgerald (defended by Janoris Jenkins)
3rd and 14: Kyler Murray pass complete short middle to Chase Edmonds for 12 yards (tackle by Jabrill Peppers and Antoine Bethea)

I don't have a ton of faith in these numbers, because I'm just doing a dirty analysis from Pro Football Reference data, but it lines up with my memory. In a greater sample size, Murray is fifth-worst in ALEX (Air Less EXpected on third downs, the average difference between the length of the quarterback's throw and the distance needed for a new set of downs. The number listed here only includes third downs and is not adjusted for passes thrown away or batted down.)

 

[SoonerLou]

Yeah, but the running game has pretty consistently kept it manageable on 3rd downs. You're always dealing with small sample sizes when you're looking at 3rd and long situations (at least, hopefully), but these are the frustrating moments for me:

Cincy Game
3rd and 7: Kyler Murray pass incomplete short right intended for KeeSean Johnson
3rd and 9: Kyler Murray pass complete short middle to Maxx Williams for 7 yards (tackle by Nick Vigil and Preston Brown)
3rd and 4: Kyler Murray pass incomplete short right intended for KeeSean Johnson (defended by Dre Kirkpatrick)
3rd and 11: Kyler Murray pass complete short left to Chase Edmonds for 8 yards (tackle by Shawn Williams). Penalty on Kyler Murray: Illegal Motion (Declined)

Atlanta Game:
3rd and 10: Kyler Murray pass complete short right to Larry Fitzgerald for 8 yards (tackle by Ricardo Allen)
3rd and 10: Kyler Murray pass incomplete short right intended for KeeSean Johnson

Giants Game:
3rd and 7: Kyler Murray pass complete short left to Pharoh Cooper for 4 yards (tackle by Alec Ogletree and Antoine Bethea)
3rd and 6: Kyler Murray pass incomplete short middle intended for Larry Fitzgerald (defended by Janoris Jenkins)
3rd and 14: Kyler Murray pass complete short middle to Chase Edmonds for 12 yards (tackle by Jabrill Peppers and Antoine Bethea)

I don't have a ton of faith in these numbers, because I'm just doing a dirty analysis from Pro Football Reference data, but it lines up with my memory. In a greater sample size, Murray is fifth-worst in ALEX (Air Less EXpected on third downs, the average difference between the length of the quarterback's throw and the distance needed for a new set of downs. The number listed here only includes third downs and is not adjusted for passes thrown away or batted down.)

Bengals game

we went to KJ down the sidenline and failed to bring the ball in. Would have been 1st and goal. Dre was credited with a breakup, but it looked more like KJ just didn't have strong hands on the backshoulder fade.

We went for it after that Max Williams catch


Giants game
We had the lead so it was just a safe throw to Edmonds

Other 2 Murray obviously didn't get it done.


I still think the fact we have no legit speed threat while also missing Kirk/DJ sort of limits the pass game. Byrd is fast, but not really getting much separation.
Falcons game

We went for it after the Fitz catch

The KJ throw was pass 10 yards but it was a low throw from Murray/KJ probably should have went to the ground to get it

 

[kerouac9]

Bengals game

we went to KJ down the sidenline and failed to bring the ball in. Would have been 1st and goal. Dre was credited with a breakup, but it looked more like KJ just didn't have strong hands on the backshoulder fade.

We went for it after that Max Williams catch


Giants game
We had the lead so it was just a safe throw to Edmonds

Other 2 Murray obviously didn't get it done.


I still think the fact we have no legit speed threat while also missing Kirk/DJ sort of limits the pass game. Byrd is fast, but not really getting much separation.
Falcons game

We went for it after the Fitz catch

The KJ throw was pass 10 yards but it was a low throw from Murray/KJ probably should have went to the ground to get it

Going for it on 4th down only highlights the fact that we didn't get it on first down. Not sure what the point of the comment is.