Our window starts next year

[kerouac9]

Switch the qb’s and Minshew would be looking like Rosen

That's a cool argument where you marshall a lot of facts to support your opinion. Thanks for moving the discussion forward.

 

[dscher]

That's a cool argument where you marshall a lot of facts to support your opinion. Thanks for moving the discussion forward.

Minshew imo has shown just as many flashes as KM has from what I've seen. So it's arguable. Just depends on what side of bias fence you are on I suppose. So it's not so much facts as it is anyones pure speculation and opinion.. as usual. Just how I see it.

 

[kerouac9]

Minshew imo has shown just as many flashes as KM has from what I've seen. So it's arguable. Just depends on what side of bias fence you are on I suppose. So it's not so much facts as it is anyones pure speculation and opinion.. as usual. Just how I see it.

So it's just random chance that Minshew has won 2 games and Murray has won 0?

 

[Arz101]

If Kyler cannot lift a bad team to 3 wins, I am OK with drafting Tua or Herbert.


I am ready...

You must be registered for see images

 

[dscher]

If Kyler cannot lift a bad team to 3 wins, I am OK with drafting Tua or Herbert.


I am ready...

You must be registered for see images

That's perfectly normal imo. Still doesn't make it a factual though to say that Kyler won't be better than those two down the road.. this is what makes opinions fun.

 

[Vacard]

So it's just random chance that Minshew has won 2 games and Murray has won 0?

With a much better team?? Minshew is simply a game manager

 

[Arz101]

That's perfectly normal imo. Still doesn't make it a factual though to say that Kyler won't be better than those two down the road.. this is what makes opinions fun.

Agree. Still like Murray's upside over the other two. Cannot argue that they both looked very very good compared to Murray so far.

 

[kerouac9]

With a much better team?? Minshew is simply a game manager

How are they "much better"? They were a 5-11 team last season? They might be better, but that's probably because they have a better QB right now than we do.

 

[Arz101]

With a much better team?? Minshew is simply a game manager

Minshew didn't get first-team reps all off-season unlike Murray and still is playing better than him. Give the man his credit and it's ok to ask a #1 overall pick to pick up his game.

 

[dscher]

So it's just random chance that Minshew has won 2 games and Murray has won 0?

Could be. Alot of things in life are imo.. Is Mitch Trubisky a better QB than Aaron Rodgers because he won more games last year?

 

[gbrim21]

So it's just random chance that Minshew has won 2 games and Murray has won 0?

Are you serious or sarcastic?

Its not random chance, our defense has given up 125 points, Jags have given up 84. They have score 10 more points than us on offense, sure. If you want to take a 4 game sample size and determine that their 2.5 more points per game means Minshew will have a better career than our dude who started a full season of college exactly once and has one of the worst O-lines in the NFL, go for it.

I didn't even want to draft Kyler, not sure how I got stuck defending him.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[gbrim21]

Could be. Alot of things in life are imo.. Is Mitch Trubisky a better QB than Aaron Rodgers because he won more games last year?

No, Trubisky is exactly as good as Rodgers because their record is currently the same. Trubisky is also as good Brees, and better than Matt Ryan.

Ppl just really don't understand how a good QB is solely responsible for wins. Did you see the Rams kicker miss last night? If he had Wilson as his QB, he would have been all "I have a QB that I respect and has leadership and moxie and is a winner! Guess I'll make it." Instead he realized his QB is Goff who's just ok, so he said "eh, Goff isn't a winner and has no moxie. I might just shank this one."

The TE who let the ball go right through his hands allowing the SEA safety to intercept it on the previous possession? Also dropped it because Goff isn't a winner.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[kerouac9]

Are you serious or sarcastic?

Its not random chance, our defense has given up 125 points, Jags have given up 84. They have score 10 more points than us on offense, sure. If you want to take a 4 game sample size and determine that their 2.5 more points per game means Minshew will have a better career than our dude who started a full season of college exactly once and has one of the worst O-lines in the NFL, go for it.

I didn't even want to draft Kyler, not sure how I got stuck defending him.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

Nowhere do I say this. I've said that Minshew is playing better than Murray right now, and has more wins than him.

It's shocking that the cultists can't even bring themselves to acknowledge this reality.

 

[dscher]

Nowhere do I say this. I've said that Minshew is playing better than Murray right now, and has more wins than him.

It's shocking that the cultists can't even bring themselves to acknowledge this reality.

It's shocking when people treat opinion as fact too..

 

[kerouac9]

It's shocking when people treat opinion as fact too..

This is not an opinion. By every statistical measure it it fact.

The only one I can find where Murray is leading is yards per game. Of course, it's because he's furiously trying to lead his team back from a hole he helped create — and has failed every time.

 

[dscher]

This is not an opinion. By every statistical measure it it fact.

The only one I can find where Murray is leading is yards per game. Of course, it's because he's furiously trying to lead his team back from a hole he helped create — and has failed every time.

You just believe your stats tell the whole picture when it comes to w and l's. Even going so far to discount his leading stat that didnt fit your narrative.. its called cherry picking. It's cool. We can to agree to disagree.

 

[kerouac9]

You just believe your stats tell the whole picture when it comes to w and l's. Even going so far to discount his leading stat that didnt fit your narrative.. its called cherry picking. It's cool. We can to agree to disagree.

I don't think stats tell the WHOLE picture. But they do provide some of it. For example, do I think Gardner Minshew is almost twice as good as Kyler Murray just because he's throwing touchdowns at twice the rate Murray is? Of course not!

This is a spot where I think that Total QBR tells a good story. Minshew has a 47.0 QBR; Murray's is 44.5. That's about how much better I think Minshew is playing than Murray right now.

BTW, Murray's QBR is 1.1% higher than Josh Rosen's right now. SUCH AN UPGRADE!

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/adjQBR/dir/desc

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How would Gardner Minshew do behind center for us though? I'm still taking KM over any QB in this draft. I may change my opinion but not until I get a larger sample size.

Agree. Minshew has a line and RB that can go for 200 yards in a game and a top defense.

Where you’re missing the mark is no one is saying they would take minshew over kyler. Just that he’s presently outplaying him (regardless of the reasons).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm guessing pretty good. It's not like he has an overwhelming talented offense around him in Jacksonville, and based on DVOA, he's right between Jimmy Garappolo and Derek Carr.

And this is where I think you’re out to lunch. Jax 439 yards rushing (excluding QB, so a real idea of rushing support) to 255 for AZ (same). And Jax has the #1 defense in the league compared to our dreck. Ignoring those realities just seems . . . well . . . beneath you.

 

[TJ]

It's shocking when people treat opinion as fact too..

Let me bless you with some facts then

https://www.pro-football-reference....toyear_3=2019&player_id3=JoneDa05&idx=players

This is comparing Murray to Jones and Minshew. Murray is running third behind the others.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Of course.

Would you have preferred, with hindsight, that he drafted minshew with that pick (no other options, I want to see how far your willing to go with this minshew silliness).

 

[kerouac9]

And this is where I think you’re out to lunch. Jax 439 yards rushing (excluding QB, so a real idea of rushing support) to 255 for AZ (same). And Jax has the #1 defense in the league compared to our dreck. Ignoring those realities just seems . . . well . . . beneath you.

Yeah, but MORE THAN HALF (267) those rush yards came in last weeks' game, which was also a win.

The three games before, JAX had 81, 103, and 81 rushing yards.

And where are you seeing that JAX has the top defense in the league? I see 12th in yards, 18th in points, 30th in turnovers. 21st in DVOA.

I'm sure you'll apologize for talking before doing any research at all.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Agreed. It is becoming apparent that Kyler Murray is not going to elevate the play of average players around him anytime soon. He is going to need to be treated like a late first or mid-round QB who requires a top NFL roster to be competitive.

Name me the “average” players on offense with him right now. Here’s what I see:

Average:
DJ Humphries
Fitz (maybe slightly above - but not much with his lack of speed at this point)
DJ (but maybe slightly below as a runner)
Kirk

And that’s it. No one else on this offense is currently average. And there’s ZERO difference makers. Not a single one. When you have a total collection of average-to-below-average players I think it’s nigh impossible to raise anyone’s level.

 

[kerouac9]

Would you have preferred, with hindsight, that he drafted minshew with that pick (no other options, I want to see how far your willing to go with this minshew silliness).

Of course not, but that doesn't change the fact that by pretty much every objective metric Minshew is playing better football than Kyler Murray.

i would've kept the guy who, up to now, is playing (by many metrics) equivalent football to Kyler Murray and added another piece at a different position.

 

[Arz101]

Of course not, but that doesn't change the fact that by pretty much every objective metric Minshew is playing better football than Kyler Murray.

i would've kept the guy who, up to now, is playing (by many metrics) equivalent football to Kyler Murray and added another piece at a different position.

I agree with your first line on Minshew.

Second-line - Factually you are correct about Rosen/Murray right now. Having said that I really like Murray over Rosen today (a hunch watching Murray play this year compared to Rosen so far) and I was a Rosen fan.