Peter King FMIA: reason for optimism?

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
36,521
Reaction score
25,968
Location
Gilbert, AZ
28pts would put us at the 4th highest scoring offense in 2018. Since we were dead last in 2018 I see only room for improvement but I think going from last to top 5 in a single season is very optimistic. I would be happy with a 24pt avg as that would mean we have an above avg offense. I doubt our O is going outpace the D though. Last year we gave up 26 PPG. Unless the improves quite a bit I don't see how the O can make up for it to produce a winning season.

The good news is that we can end up getting better on defense as the season goes along, as we'll be getting back two of perhaps our five best players on that unit after the break.

I don't know if our offense will be able to hang with other hyper-productive offenses — obviously, Coach Unicorn wasn't able to make it work at Texas Tech in the same way Mike Leach was able to. But there is a pressure on teams when you're asking them to score 30 points a game in the NFL. Some teams aren't designed to do that, and, at least in the short term, it works as a cheat code.
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
19,824
Reaction score
11,761
Location
Chandler, Az
"Mechanics" are different from "fundamentals." The clap count is an example of a mechanic that was fine in Week 1 and needs to be worked out over the next couple weeks. Kyler's never had the coach in his ear, and they're working that out. Those are mechanics that are important to get done right now, because the bodies on the field don't matter much.

Maybe it doesn't work. The biggest problem, IMO, is that the WRs aren't going to be experienced enough to make the plays when it counts. But it's important to remember that these guys are running hundreds of reps during the week and we see a couple dozen during a game before Kanfield comes on the field.

Totally agree. Even KK needs to work out the kinks as he transitions to the NFL. KK has never used a headset to call in plays before.

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/tu...f-kingsbury-kyler-murray-adjust-to-nfl-change
 

The Kraken

Veteran
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Posts
372
Reaction score
468
Location
San Diego CA
Last night Terrell Davis said (paraphrase) KK is making it look he has some brand new revolutionary Offense that no one has seen and said it was silly to be making it so top secret since after a few games DCs will know it anyway
Again I'm paraphrasing I can't find the exact quote
It is not revolutionary, it is the interplay between the eligible receivers and how they react in space with regards to the defense and the relationship to each other's routes.

What I think the concern is, that coach K2 is worried that the opponent will chart plays and see tendencies and adjustments.

Example, "Y (sometimes "H") stick is bread and butter Air Raid play. The Chiefs use it all of the time, it forces the defense to react to the slot receiver's route and the QB reads that reaction and throws the ball to the player who is wide open or mismatched.

The slot "Y" runs a stick pattern, the outside playside receiver runs a go to clear, the backside outside receiver runs a dig, backside TE either blocks or runs a shallow pivot or hook that gives a layered look over the middle with the dig, and the back runs a flare or a wheel to the playside.

The QB reads the dig to give the Y time to run the stick, then reads the defense's reaction to the stick...***Here is the important part*** How the Y stems the route in the context of the coverage and at what depth the back circles out of the backfield can be charted and game-planned against. Tendencies can be analyzed and plays influenced.

I was the DC for a JV team that played against a school that ran the Air Raid...It was a long day for the defense, luckily we didn't have to worry about their QB pulling the ball and running...but I totally get why they are not advertising the offense.
 

splitsecond

ASFN Addict
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Posts
5,579
Reaction score
1,526
Location
Chandler, AZ
It is not revolutionary, it is the interplay between the eligible receivers and how they react in space with regards to the defense and the relationship to each other's routes.

What I think the concern is, that coach K2 is worried that the opponent will chart plays and see tendencies and adjustments.

Example, "Y (sometimes "H") stick is bread and butter Air Raid play. The Chiefs use it all of the time, it forces the defense to react to the slot receiver's route and the QB reads that reaction and throws the ball to the player who is wide open or mismatched.

The slot "Y" runs a stick pattern, the outside playside receiver runs a go to clear, the backside outside receiver runs a dig, backside TE either blocks or runs a shallow pivot or hook that gives a layered look over the middle with the dig, and the back runs a flare or a wheel to the playside.

The QB reads the dig to give the Y time to run the stick, then reads the defense's reaction to the stick...***Here is the important part*** How the Y stems the route in the context of the coverage and at what depth the back circles out of the backfield can be charted and game-planned against. Tendencies can be analyzed and plays influenced.

I was the DC for a JV team that played against a school that ran the Air Raid...It was a long day for the defense, luckily we didn't have to worry about their QB pulling the ball and running...but I totally get why they are not advertising the offense.

Man I love the air raid for this reason and frankly the counter to this is to chart the tendencies of your own team and go against them in playcalling. It’s not terribly difficult. It’s also why McVay can run variations of this so successfully because he has that insane memory and remembers every play he has ever called (allegedly).
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
11,978
Reaction score
3,079
Doesn't every NFL team go vanilla in preseason to not give too much away?????????

The Packers with Rodgers have run the same Offense forever under McCarthy but still didn't show wrinkles they put in during the offseason.

To think that KK isn't doing the same thing and even to a bigger degree is simply looking to have doubts IMO.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,631
Reaction score
34,716
Location
Colorado
It's always somewhere in the middle isn't it? He's not as terrible as the Rosen truthers and isn't as great as the Kyler truthers.
There are paths to success and there are paths to failure in every career. I get frustrated when people choose to not acknowledge either of those two paths.
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
Last night Terrell Davis said (paraphrase) KK is making it look he has some brand new revolutionary Offense that no one has seen and said it was silly to be making it so top secret since after a few games DCs will know it anyway
Again I'm paraphrasing I can't find the exact quote
Translation - "KK's lame for not giving us inside info."
 

HGC

All Star
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
953
Reaction score
1,046
Location
Chandler
I really don’t know what to expect this season. The offensive line scares the hell out of me so does playing in a division with elite defensive coaches. I just have my doubts about Kingsbury as a coach and his offensive system transitioning to the NFL. Week 2 at Baltimore could be ugly.
 

GuernseyCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Posts
10,123
Reaction score
5,680
Location
London UK
I'm still not buying they are running a different offense than what they are practicing just to get a couple games where there is no viable tape on them. It doesn't make sense. If you need the element of surprise to win then the offense isn't good, and that benefit is short lived when you're planning on playing 16 games this year and for many seasons to come after.

Yes, they aren't going to be using their plays saved for critical moments in games, but that is not what this is. If you're not taking the opportunity to let your rooks and vets alike to practice the new scheme in a preseason what's to say it isn't going to be a cluster F on the first regular season game.

Im starting to get the feeling even if we are 0-4 that they haven't opened the whole playbook yet because it is just too much awesomeness to reveal all at once... Just wait and see when we pull out all the stops next year!

They are practising it, practising it, practising it, practising it - in practice!
 

wit3card

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Posts
2,943
Reaction score
1,778
Gosh guys, remember last year, when not one starter for the Rams played a preseason game? Remember? And they whiped the floor with many air Raid concepts in the first weeks of the regular season.

I think K2 is trying to get that headstart too this year, and if he really starts out with a great O that is to some degree not stoppable for our opponents, we might be able to win despite of bad D.

Look Detroit isn't a great team, Baltimor if you score because you suprise there strongest team part you might win, Carolina the same and Seattle is always a wish wash even last year it was. and by the time you hit Cinci you might get slowly caught but ... c'mon if it worked before it works against cinci. Atlanta okay ... new York is bad. San Fran ... XD so and if you want to win 9 games you might need a 6-1 or a 7-0 start because New Orleans, Arians that wants to stick it to us, Rams twice, Pittsburgh, Browns, Seattle again, it will be hard to win one down the stretch.

So at least from that perspective I get why K2 holds his hand so covered. But is his team and his playcalling good enough... we will see.

But even if it helps and we start 6-1 it will be very difficult to get into the playoffs.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
36,521
Reaction score
25,968
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Gosh guys, remember last year, when not one starter for the Rams played a preseason game? Remember? And they whiped the floor with many air Raid concepts in the first weeks of the regular season.

I think K2 is trying to get that headstart too this year, and if he really starts out with a great O that is to some degree not stoppable for our opponents, we might be able to win despite of bad D.

Look Detroit isn't a great team, Baltimor if you score because you suprise there strongest team part you might win, Carolina the same and Seattle is always a wish wash even last year it was. and by the time you hit Cinci you might get slowly caught but ... c'mon if it worked before it works against cinci. Atlanta okay ... new York is bad. San Fran ... XD so and if you want to win 9 games you might need a 6-1 or a 7-0 start because New Orleans, Arians that wants to stick it to us, Rams twice, Pittsburgh, Browns, Seattle again, it will be hard to win one down the stretch.

So at least from that perspective I get why K2 holds his hand so covered. But is his team and his playcalling good enough... we will see.

But even if it helps and we start 6-1 it will be very difficult to get into the playoffs.

This take is so bad. The Rams won 11 games the prior season. We won 3.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,122
Reaction score
60,428
This take is so bad. The Rams won 11 games the prior season. We won 3.

it always amazes me when I see takes like that... like... how do people not realize the differences in their comparisons/context as to what they're arguing? it's mind-boggling to me sometimes.
 

Arz101

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Posts
4,906
Reaction score
5,595
This take is so bad. The Rams won 11 games the prior season. We won 3.

McVay didn't play his starters much in his first season either. I remember all the knocks on McVay for playing Goff very little in pre-season. Well, duh, McVay knew what he was doing looking back.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,002
Reaction score
14,417
Location
Plainfield, Il.
This take is so bad. The Rams won 11 games the prior season. We won 3.
Well in 2016 the Rams were 4-12. They scored 224 pts . Only twice all year did they score 26 pts or more and lost 1 of them.

Move ahead to 2017. McVays first season. The Rams went 11-5. Scored 478 pts. Twelve times they scored 26 or more points and they were 11-1 in those twelve games.

If we score 26 or more points in twelve of our games I think we will win most of those. That is the thought. Putting out a dynamic offense seems to be the trend.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
36,521
Reaction score
25,968
Location
Gilbert, AZ
McVay didn't play his starters much in his first season either. I remember all the knocks on McVay for playing Goff very little in pre-season. Well, duh, McVay knew what he was doing looking back.

You must be registered for see images attach


Seems like a pretty regular preseason workload to me. :shrug:
 

Arz101

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Posts
4,906
Reaction score
5,595
Well in 2016 the Rams were 4-12. They scored 224 pts . Only twice all year did they score 26 pts or more and lost 1 of them.

Move ahead to 2017. McVays first season. The Rams went 11-5. Scored 478 pts. Twelve times they scored 26 or more points and they were 11-1 in those twelve games.

If we score 26 or more points in twelve of our games I think we will win most of those. That is the thought. Putting out a dynamic offense seems to be the trend.

Please check your facts. McVay's first season they were 11-5. Last year they were coming off first season.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
36,521
Reaction score
25,968
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Well in 2016 the Rams were 4-12. They scored 224 pts . Only twice all year did they score 26 pts or more and lost 1 of them.

Move ahead to 2017. McVays first season. The Rams went 11-5. Scored 478 pts. Twelve times they scored 26 or more points and they were 11-1 in those twelve games.

If we score 26 or more points in twelve of our games I think we will win most of those. That is the thought. Putting out a dynamic offense seems to be the trend.

Oh. I hadn't thought of that. I was AGAINST having a dynamic offense this whole time. :rolleyes:

The OP was talking about starters reps in the preseason.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,002
Reaction score
14,417
Location
Plainfield, Il.
Oh. I hadn't thought of that. I was AGAINST having a dynamic offense this whole time. :rolleyes:

The OP was talking about starters reps in the preseason.
Quite honestly I didn’t review how much McKay played his starters in preseason. Whether he did or not I doubt anyone in L. A. Believed the Rams were a threat to anyone including us. I’d say it was pretty silly of you being against having a dynamic offense. Lol
 

wit3card

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Posts
2,943
Reaction score
1,778
This take is so bad. The Rams won 11 games the prior season. We won 3.
This take is about the thinking behind of it, I never said we will win 11 games, gosh I would be pleased if we win 5-7 games.

But even if we want to win 5-7 games this season, they will probably come in the first half of the season and not the back of the season.
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
7,254
Location
Home of the Thunder
This take is about the thinking behind of it, I never said we will win 11 games, gosh I would be pleased if we win 5-7 games.

But even if we want to win 5-7 games this season, they will probably come in the first half of the season and not the back of the season.

Why? Because of the way the schedule sets up? I noticed we play the Rams twice in the last five weeks or something weird like that.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
36,521
Reaction score
25,968
Location
Gilbert, AZ
This take is about the thinking behind of it, I never said we will win 11 games, gosh I would be pleased if we win 5-7 games.

But even if we want to win 5-7 games this season, they will probably come in the first half of the season and not the back of the season.
You’re premise is wrong. The core of the Rams had already played together an entire, extremely successful season; they had little to gain or learn from preseason games.

This team has a new coaching staff and new system. The head man in charge has never been near a regular season NFL sideline as a coach. Reps in the preseason under this circumstance are essential.
 

wit3card

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Posts
2,943
Reaction score
1,778
You’re premise is wrong. The core of the Rams had already played together an entire, extremely successful season; they had little to gain or learn from preseason games.

This team has a new coaching staff and new system. The head man in charge has never been near a regular season NFL sideline as a coach. Reps in the preseason under this circumstance are essential.
Kerouac9 I never said that it was the right thing to do, I said that this might be the reasoning behind it.

Like always, this sounds like the most like thinking for me, if you have any better Idea, why they don't use the preseason to practice theire game, than let us know.

Why? Because of the way the schedule sets up? I noticed we play the Rams twice in the last five weeks or something weird like that.

LA
Steelers
Browns
@Seattle
@LA
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
7,254
Location
Home of the Thunder
Kerouac9 I never said that it was the right thing to do, I said that this might be the reasoning behind it.

Like always, this sounds like the most like thinking for me, if you have any better Idea, why they don't use the preseason to practice theire game, than let us know.



LA
Steelers
Browns
@Seattle
@LA

What you're saying makes sense. Maybe LA will be resting their starters for that last game? lol...

That game against the Browns will be fun, and we might be able to beat PIT at home.
 

PACardsFan

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
9,991
Reaction score
11,401
Location
York, PA
What you're saying makes sense. Maybe LA will be resting their starters for that last game? lol...

That game against the Browns will be fun, and we might be able to beat PIT at home.

Home games always present a better chance to win. As putrid as we were last year, we still had a few home games that we could have won if our coaching staff had a set of balls. Just looking at our home games alone, we could beat:

Lions
Panthers
Falcons
49ers
Browns
Seahawks

I would also put Pittsburgh on this list, as we have always played them tough in AZ. But, Pittsburgh's D-line will be a handful for us & they will be playing for their fallen WR coach. Without the 2 headcases, the Steelers will be a better team. Also, don't be surprised if we give the Rams all they can handle in AZ. I expect a high scoring, back & forth affair in that one. I'm not saying we WILL win these home games, but we'll have the opportunity to.

A road win or 2 could come from:

Bengals
Giants
Bucs

We have notoriously been a lousy road team, even though only a handful of teams are considered "good" road teams. It may not necessarily be this year, but Murray's ability to avoid the first guy & make plays out of seemingly nothing will quiet some venues that would otherwise become rabid after a couple of early sacks.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
534,838
Posts
5,246,767
Members
6,273
Latest member
sarahmoose
Top