Nkemdiche Cut

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,148
Reaction score
6,589
I think that SK wanted him to be the next Dockett so much he ignored reality and all the red flags.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dockett had many red flags coming out of college too. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I remember Vernon Gholston was a pretty clean prospect with minimal red flags and was a hard-working pass rush demon at OSU. He was a tremendous bust in the NFL.

You just never know. I've never had a problem with Keim drafting him late round 1 and taking a chance on the talent coming through.
 

AZCB34

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Posts
14,037
Reaction score
5,805
Location
Mesa, AZ
Dockett had many red flags coming out of college too. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I remember Vernon Gholston was a pretty clean prospect with minimal red flags and was a hard-working pass rush demon at OSU. He was a tremendous bust in the NFL.

You just never know. I've never had a problem with Keim drafting him late round 1 and taking a chance on the talent coming through.

My guess is if you go back to the thread when he was drafted, most were on board with the pick and many connected him with Badger.
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
20,163
Reaction score
9,606
Location
Laveen, AZ
The draft pick of Nkemdiche was hailed as a smart pick at that spot in the draft. That dude had many chances from the Cards. I would have felt bad if we cut him after his rookie season, but we hung in there trying to give him chances.
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
I think that SK wanted him to be the next Dockett so much he ignored reality and all the red flags.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think SK felt the Deech's physical abilities made him worth the risk within the context of who else was available
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
59,937
Reaction score
51,286
Location
SoCal
My guess is if you go back to the thread when he was drafted, most were on board with the pick and many connected him with Badger.
Yes that’s true. But we all possess limited information. A GM has a team of scouts, volumes of tape, interviews his coaches. Interviews him. So I don’t care what most of us would’ve done. I’m disappointed the professional wasn’t capable of figuring out he was a terrible selection. Or that all the other first round busts were either. Sorry I don’t give Keim a pass bc of a bunch of fans or websites agreed with him.
 

cardpa

Have a Nice Day!
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
7,312
Reaction score
3,956
Location
Monroe NC
There were several others at positions of need that could have been drafted without the baggage Diche came with. Myles Jack, Chris Jones, Jaylon Smith, Hunter Henry, Michael Thomas to name a few.
 

AZCB34

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Posts
14,037
Reaction score
5,805
Location
Mesa, AZ
Yes that’s true. But we all possess limited information. A GM has a team of scouts, volumes of tape, interviews his coaches. Interviews him. So I don’t care what most of us would’ve done. I’m disappointed the professional wasn’t capable of figuring out he was a terrible selection. Or that all the other first round busts were either. Sorry I don’t give Keim a pass bc of a bunch of fans or websites agreed with him.

Trust me I am not giving MillerKeim a pass. Keim, imo, knew of all the red flags but thought he could repeat the Honey Badger success.
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
19,824
Reaction score
11,761
Location
Chandler, Az
SO the question is how could they misfire so badly on the character issue especially when he already had a rep in college for being lackadaisical, spotty performance and poor decision making? Are they that bad at spotting poor character or are that easily fooled in the interviews by BS? Just because the guy had similar physical measurements as Dockett doesn't mean jack squat when it came to character or desire to excel.

The Honey Badger effect. BA and Keim got cocky after the success they had with the Honey Badger. Then they thought that they could reinvent every bad apple after the success that they had with him. The problem is you can't measure heart.

The Honey Badger "might not give a poo" but he loved to play football. Diche was the exact opposite and could care less about anything especially football. It appears that football was a meal ticket to Diche. Literally!
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,459
Reaction score
16,598
Location
San Antonio, Texas
The Honey Badger effect. BA and Keim got cocky after the success they had with the Honey Badger. Then they thought that they could reinvent every bad apple after the success that they had with him. The problem is you can't measure heart.

The Honey Badger "might not give a ****" but he loved to play football. Diche was the exact opposite and could care less about anything especially football. It appears that football was a meal ticket to Diche. Literally!

This, because no matter the screw ups, Mathieu loved football and always gave full effort while the Niche did not. Frankly, they are both failures if you are judging the here and now but one is due to a significant injury. The Cardinals were not willing to keep Tyrann and neither were the Texans, he's simply a name now and not an actual force on defense
 

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
14,742
Reaction score
12,876
Sorry I don’t give Keim a pass bc of a bunch of fans or websites agreed with him.

yep

Keim is literally paid millions of dollars more per year than writers who do draft rankings and analysis: he needs to be better than them.

my one "kinda" excuse for Keim (warning: pure speculation) : likely influenced (or maybe Mike B was influenced, probably both of them) by BAs belief that his coaching staff was so good that the potential would be unlocked.

Mike B has a history of listening to head coaches once they establish themselves (not speculation)
 

cardpa

Have a Nice Day!
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
7,312
Reaction score
3,956
Location
Monroe NC
The Honey Badger effect. BA and Keim got cocky after the success they had with the Honey Badger. Then they thought that they could reinvent every bad apple after the success that they had with him. The problem is you can't measure heart.

The Honey Badger "might not give a ****" but he loved to play football. Diche was the exact opposite and could care less about anything especially football. It appears that football was a meal ticket to Diche. Literally!

True and true. You may not be able to measure heart but you can certainly see it in the effort put forth.
 

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,148
Reaction score
6,589
Yes that’s true. But we all possess limited information. A GM has a team of scouts, volumes of tape, interviews his coaches. Interviews him. So I don’t care what most of us would’ve done. I’m disappointed the professional wasn’t capable of figuring out he was a terrible selection. Or that all the other first round busts were either. Sorry I don’t give Keim a pass bc of a bunch of fans or websites agreed with him.
Even so, it's a very inexact science.

Another ex-OSU player who flamed out that nobody could see coming was David Boston. He was a model kid at OSU from a great family(sister is a lawyer and dad an NFL ref) and look at what happened to him.

The bottom line is you're drafting the best talent for your team and hoping it works out. Granted, there are guys that are better evaluators but all GM's have had their fair share of busts.

At that time, the Cards had one of the most, if not the most, talented rosters in the league. Does Keim not get any credit for that?
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,280
Reaction score
30,229
Location
Orange County, CA
Bickley and Marotta were saying that Nkemdiche was really engaged and cheering on his teammates after he reported to camp. They said that it appeared that Nkemdiche finally realized he needed to be engaged.

Like I said elsewhere, if you read between the lines, SK started mentioning that the Cardinals were looking for passionate players who love football. These comments seemed to start after Nkemdiche.
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
33,730
Reaction score
18,578
Location
South Bay
Mike B has a history of listening to head coaches once they establish themselves (not speculation)

If true, and he’s taking opinions on talent from the HC over Suge White, that’s a major red flag.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,280
Reaction score
30,229
Location
Orange County, CA
Even so, it's a very inexact science.

Another ex-OSU player who flamed out that nobody could see coming was David Boston. He was a model kid at OSU from a great family(sister is a lawyer and dad an NFL ref) and look at what happened to him.

The bottom line is you're drafting the best talent for your team and hoping it works out. Granted, there are guys that are better evaluators but all GM's have had their fair share of busts.

At that time, the Cards had one of the most, if not the most, talented rosters in the league. Does Keim not get any credit for that?

Something went wrong in the process.

The Cardinals went from a team that most moves worked, to the worst team in the league.

I still maintain that the Cardinals arent the worst team in the league. I'd still take their roster over quite a few teams. The have a top 5 corner, top 5 pass rusher, and a do it all back. They lack some weapons on offense but there is a good chance that will be fixed this year mostly. They secondary looks very promising on paper and has a good mix of veterans and young players. The ugly spot is still the offensive line, but it could be serviceable if the players have good health.

I think that the league caught up to Arians largely. The 13-3 year, everything worked, and the very next season it seemed like everyone knew when Arians was going to dial up a deep ball. After the 7-8-1 season, reportedly Keim wanted to go after McVay. If that was the case, Keim must have seen the writing on the wall that Arians had run his course.
 

nidan

Oscar
Supporting Member
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
24,399
Reaction score
1,795
Location
Plymouth, UK
Even so, it's a very inexact science.

Another ex-OSU player who flamed out that nobody could see coming was David Boston. He was a model kid at OSU from a great family(sister is a lawyer and dad an NFL ref) and look at what happened to him.

The bottom line is you're drafting the best talent for your team and hoping it works out. Granted, there are guys that are better evaluators but all GM's have had their fair share of busts.

At that time, the Cards had one of the most, if not the most, talented rosters in the league. Does Keim not get any credit for that?
I remember Boston.

In those days ASFN had access, ai Skorp, myself and Brighteyes.

There was little doubt DB was going bto fail once he got here. From what I remember he wasn't exactly a model citizen for the team
 
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Posts
10,085
Reaction score
6,687
Location
Chandler
Something went wrong in the process.

The Cardinals went from a team that most moves worked, to the worst team in the league.

I still maintain that the Cardinals arent the worst team in the league. I'd still take their roster over quite a few teams. The have a top 5 corner, top 5 pass rusher, and a do it all back. They lack some weapons on offense but there is a good chance that will be fixed this year mostly. They secondary looks very promising on paper and has a good mix of veterans and young players. The ugly spot is still the offensive line, but it could be serviceable if the players have good health.

I think that the league caught up to Arians largely. The 13-3 year, everything worked, and the very next season it seemed like everyone knew when Arians was going to dial up a deep ball. After the 7-8-1 season, reportedly Keim wanted to go after McVay. If that was the case, Keim must have seen the writing on the wall that Arians had run his course.

I think injuries to Palmer kind of derailed things as well.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,631
Reaction score
34,717
Location
Colorado
You have to believe players when they tell you what they are. When your process starts with expecting a player to be something he hasn't shown you can be, it is a recipe for disaster. Almost all of our misses under Keim have this in common.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
59,937
Reaction score
51,286
Location
SoCal
Even so, it's a very inexact science.

Another ex-OSU player who flamed out that nobody could see coming was David Boston. He was a model kid at OSU from a great family(sister is a lawyer and dad an NFL ref) and look at what happened to him.

The bottom line is you're drafting the best talent for your team and hoping it works out. Granted, there are guys that are better evaluators but all GM's have had their fair share of busts.

At that time, the Cards had one of the most, if not the most, talented rosters in the league. Does Keim not get any credit for that?
He gets credit for the good (David Johnson, Palmer trade, etc) and gets the blame for his bad (first round best after first round bust). Imagine the talent level of this team if he hit on even 40% of his first round picks?!?
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
33,730
Reaction score
18,578
Location
South Bay
Suge White??????

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

You don’t know anything about Suge White? The man who destroyed the franchise from the inside out? The man who ran over Josh Rosen with his truck on draft night? The dude with a criminal background?
 
Top