Kyler Murray races 4.31 second 40-yard speed demon Andy Isabella (Video)

[Chris_Sanders]

Not to mention the real money and cap space we blew in the whole exchange...

The cap space is a loss this year and a gain next year since you add one year to your rookie QB deal and Rosen's cap hit is gone.

 

[Krangodnzr]

LOL. This is crazy talk. We also had one of the worst offensive seasons in NFL history and fired a full coaching staff.

If that's the only cost, and KM turns out to be a franchise QB, then there's MAYBE a point here. As always, if Murray starts out as Mike Vick before transitioning to Russell Wilson, nothing else matters. But the Cards probably burned down 10-15% of their fanbase in this exchange.



Well, I think the question is can he really play football at 211? I mean, we know he can get to 211, but he never showed that he could play at that weight. He didn't look that thick when he was playing for OU, and adding 15 lbs can affect how your body moves and your mechanics through your core.

Right...so you have one of the worst offensive seasons in history and then you trade up to get Murray. The total costs ARENT that high when comparing to other deals.

So Murray gained the weight and has been acclimating to his weight gain. As you see by the video, hes still stupid fast.

If were talking about Murray at 230? That's insane.

 

[kerouac9]

Right...so you have one of the worst offensive seasons in history and then you trade up to get Murray. The total costs ARENT that high when comparing to other deals.

So Murray gained the weight and has been acclimating to his weight gain. As you see by the video, hes still stupid fast.

If were talking about Murray at 230? That's insane.

You're leaving out the $20 million in dead salary cap money. IF the deal was made as you suggest, 2 1sts plus some extra for #1 overall and a 2nd sounds like a good deal, but the extrernalities aren't hypothetical.

The Cards are having to offer a bush-league referral program to try and get some season ticket sales. Kyler Murray isn't psyching up people outside the ASFN bubble.

 

[Russ Smith]

I see that he's fast. I knew that already so it doesn't change it for me. I need to see him read defenses and make the right decision when to run and get down or out of bounds and when to throw the ball away. That will only happen for me in games.

So I'm thrilled he impressed people so far, and I'm thrilled he ran fast etc, but in the end I didn't see enough of him in college to form an opinion until he plays in real games. I see the tremendous upside, I see the risk. I'm willing to wait and see how it works out.

 

[Solar7]

The cap space is a loss this year and a gain next year since you add one year to your rookie QB deal and Rosen's cap hit is gone.

I mean, that could be said of pretty much any dead cap, that it's going away eventually?

But keep in mind, Kyler's contract is also a good chunk of coin larger than Rosen's was. $35 million with a $23 million signing bonus compared to $17 million with an $11 million signing bonus.

The dead cap hit is a player that could have filled a glaring hole for us at ILB or DL.

 

[JeffGollin]

I still believe the pick was him from the moment they hired Kingsbury so he knew he didn't need to run.

Just guessing but the most logical scenario would be:

Late last season, it becomes obvious that things aren't working out, and there are better than even odds that we'll finish #32 (or at best maybe #30). Michael B (& probably other members of mgt) conclude that "it ain't working" and a major remake would be necessary. One very attractive option would be to switch to an entirely different offensive system under a hot college coach (i.e. Kingsbury).

Things start to fall into place as the season-ending draws closer. The likelihood of drafting Murray (with #1 and even at #2 or 3) becomes more and more likely (& tempting). More pieces fall into place, and Cards wind up with a comprehensive overhaul that includes a new coach, new system and new QB. (Ditching Rosen becomes a desirable afterthought).

Therefore - The whole K2 and K1 deal wasn't due to some orchestrated, "scheme" but the right things fell into place to pave the way for it to happen.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I see that he's fast. I knew that already so it doesn't change it for me. I need to see him read defenses and make the right decision when to run and get down or out of bounds and when to throw the ball away. That will only happen for me in games.

So I'm thrilled he impressed people so far, and I'm thrilled he ran fast etc, but in the end I didn't see enough of him in college to form an opinion until he plays in real games. I see the tremendous upside, I see the risk. I'm willing to wait and see how it works out.

+1

We'll see. I need to see him play at NFL speed and read a D before I get excited with him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The dead cap hit is a player that could have filled a glaring hole for us at ILB or DL.

No. The Cardinals could've signed another DL or ILB if they had wanted to. Team building isnt like Madden.

The team is giving Reddick an opportunity to win the job. And they used a fairly high draft pick on DL and will rotate players.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Yep. Totally crazy people cant grasp this logic.

You CAN'T trade your starting QB until 100% you have your next starter. Imagine how stupid it would've been if a week before the draft the Cardinals traded Rosen and then Murray punched some female on tape?

At that point, Rosen is gone and you cant take Murray. Now you have to consider Haskins or Jones (PUKE).

Rosen was a sunk cost. The team rightfully gambled and lost. Imagine if the Cardinals had traded two firsts, a third, and a fifth for a franchise QB and a second rounder? That's not too bad, and it's essentially what they did.

I appreciate you understanding the bolded idea Krang.

It's really integral to an effective decision-making process regarding the use of currently available resources.

 

[Solar7]

No. The Cardinals could've signed another DL or ILB if they had wanted to. Team building isnt like Madden.

The team is giving Reddick an opportunity to win the job. And they used a fairly high draft pick on DL and will rotate players.

With the sacrifice of someone else or restructuring deals, yeah. There's no way you can convince me that $20 million in dead cap is just a "whatever" thing, and I'm not sure why you're so hellbent on insisting it's not a problem. Along with Bradford's hit, it's complete ineptitude in roster management last year, and Keim takes the blame for that.

 

[Yuma]

Technically, he only has to be faster than DL and LBers. I assume he will get some downfield blocks on safeties and CBs by his WRs.

 

[Krangodnzr]

With the sacrifice of someone else or restructuring deals, yeah. There's no way you can convince me that $20 million in dead cap is just a "whatever" thing, and I'm not sure why you're so hellbent on insisting it's not a problem. Along with Bradford's hit, it's complete ineptitude in roster management last year, and Keim takes the blame for that.

Crazy ineptitude??

Hyperbole. They brought in a starting QB and moved on from a historically bad rookie. QBs are expensive.

 

[Krangodnzr]

With the sacrifice of someone else or restructuring deals, yeah. There's no way you can convince me that $20 million in dead cap is just a "whatever" thing, and I'm not sure why you're so hellbent on insisting it's not a problem. Along with Bradford's hit, it's complete ineptitude in roster management last year, and Keim takes the blame for that.

Ineptitude would be the Gresham deal. THAT was an awful move, that literally no one thought was a good deal at the time. It probably ended up worse than most anticipated.

A starting, veteran QB costs around 20 mil. It's just a fact of the NFL. The deal was basically structured to be a one year deal, but the make up of poopy offense, poopy o line, and poor receivers completely doomed Bradford. He has never been a guy who makes players around him better.

I do agree that moving on from Rosen was a worse move even though I like it. Worse move financially that is. Why I like it? If you know you made a mistake, move on.

 

[kerouac9]

Crazy ineptitude??

Hyperbole. They brought in a starting QB and moved on from a historically bad rookie. QBs are expensive.

The team went from 8-8 to 3-13 and the number one pick in the draft. There’s no way to spin that roster management into a positive. Maybe the garbage 2018 season ends up being a blessing in disguise if Murray becomes one of the most exciting players in the league by the end of the year, but it’s too early to say that now.

I’m mystified that the Murray stans can’t be patient before taking victory laps.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The team went from 8-8 to 3-13 and the number one pick in the draft. There’s no way to spin that roster management into a positive. Maybe the garbage 2018 season ends up being a blessing in disguise if Murray becomes one of the most exciting players in the league by the end of the year, but it’s too early to say that now.

I’m mystified that the Murray stans can’t be patient before taking victory laps.

Victory laps? That's bullcrap.

The Murray Derangement syndrome crowd fight any bit of positive news on Murray. One way or another, one side is going to look really silly, that's for sure.

He was referring to crazy ineptitude on managing the QB situation.

The rest of the roster? I'd argue that the team was in a need for a rebuild. The roster was getting old, slow, and expensive. They kept the band together for one too many years under Arians when it was apparent a rebuild was needed.

We've heard rumblings that Michael is the impatient one, Michael is a meddler.

Just like with the Suns, if a team needs to rebuild, but instead it invests in veterans to win now, you get ugly results. At least the Cardinals roster has a top 5 pass rusher, a top five corner, and a few other good building blocks to bounce back quick.

 

[kerouac9]

Victory laps? That's bullcrap.

The Murray Derangement syndrome crowd fight any bit of positive news on Murray. One way or another, one side is going to look really silly, that's for sure.

He was referring to crazy ineptitude on managing the QB situation.

The rest of the roster? I'd argue that the team was in a need for a rebuild. The roster was getting old, slow, and expensive. They kept the band together for one too many years under Arians when it was apparent a rebuild was needed.

We've heard rumblings that Michael is the impatient one, Michael is a meddler.

Just like with the Suns, if a team needs to rebuild, but instead it invests in veterans to win now, you get ugly results. At least the Cardinals roster has a top 5 pass rusher, a top five corner, and a few other good building blocks to bounce back quick.

You’re not even taking about Murray, and I’m certainly not. You’re so unhinged that any choice — however accidental — that lead to Murray is now good(???).

The team didn’t get any parts of the rebuild that might have started last year. Justin Pugh remains just as much a question mark today. All the corners are gone.

Again, there’s no world where paying Sam Bradford $20 million for four starts and eight games on the roster is actually good roster management. No one wanted him then, and no one wanted him now. He couldn’t hold off historically bad rookie Josh Rosen for sixteen full quarters! That’s bad!

 

[Krangodnzr]

You’re not even taking about Murray, and I’m certainly not. You’re so unhinged that any choice — however accidental — that lead to Murray is now good(???).

The team didn’t get any parts of the rebuild that might have started last year. Justin Pugh remains just as much a question mark today. All the corners are gone.

Again, there’s no world where paying Sam Bradford $20 million for four starts and eight games on the roster is actually good roster management. No one wanted him then, and no one wanted him now. He couldn’t hold off historically bad rookie Josh Rosen for sixteen full quarters! That’s bad!

It's not complete ineptitude, that's my point.

Jiminty cricket. Most on this board were ok with Bradford AND drafting Rosen. I'm not a Rosen fan, but I still think he can be ok, and could have been a lot better last year even.

It's impossible to figure out what were bad moves last year, because the #1 bad move was hiring Wilks. Wilks was Dave Mac bad. In all .y years as a Cardinals fan, I dont think I've seen a worse coaching staff performance. Ive seen much worse rosters though. Justin Pugh is better than dozens of guards that have started for the Cardinals.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I still believe the pick was him from the moment they hired Kingsbury so he knew he didn't need to run.

I think Kingsbury was hired before Murray ever decided to declare for the NFL Draft.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[RON_IN_OC]

"Kyler Murray races 4.31 second 40-yard speed demon Andy Isabella (Video)"

Murray jumped the start and Isabella looks taller.

Isn't Andy turning his head to Murray, too? IMO he wasn't running full throttle.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I think Kingsbury was hired before Murray ever decided to declare for the NFL Draft.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

About a week between Kingsbury being hired and Murray declaring for the draft

 

[Jetstream Green]

The team went from 8-8 to 3-13 and the number one pick in the draft. There’s no way to spin that roster management into a positive. Maybe the garbage 2018 season ends up being a blessing in disguise if Murray becomes one of the most exciting players in the league by the end of the year, but it’s too early to say that now.

I’m mystified that the Murray stans can’t be patient before taking victory laps.

It's called being a fan and this is entertainment which anticipation is part of the allure for a team you root for. Now if this was not a fan site for the Cardinals but a broad national site based on nonobjective views... you would be right

 

[kerouac9]

It's not complete ineptitude, that's my point.

Jiminty cricket. Most on this board were ok with Bradford AND drafting Rosen. I'm not a Rosen fan, but I still think he can be ok, and could have been a lot better last year even.

It's impossible to figure out what were bad moves last year, because the #1 bad move was hiring Wilks. Wilks was Dave Mac bad. In all .y years as a Cardinals fan, I dont think I've seen a worse coaching staff performance. Ive seen much worse rosters though. Justin Pugh is better than dozens of guards that have started for the Cardinals.

Yes. Look how excited fans were about Bradford last season: https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/sam-bradford-a-cardinal.259870/

The enthusiasm is palpable. That “Not Glennon” energy was very strong.

Man, molkerman unhinged Bradford enthusiasm was impressive.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yes. Look how excited fans were about Bradford last season: https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/sam-bradford-a-cardinal.259870/

The enthusiasm is palpable. That “Not Glennon” energy was very strong.

Man, molkerman unhinged Bradford enthusiasm was impressive.

Like I said again, most were ok with him as the bridge guy. Few were whining about how much he was paid. The board was ecstatic a month or two later with Rosen in fold. We were collectively wrong.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

 

[PACardsFan]

It's not complete ineptitude, that's my point.

Jiminty cricket. Most on this board were ok with Bradford AND drafting Rosen. I'm not a Rosen fan, but I still think he can be ok, and could have been a lot better last year even.

It's impossible to figure out what were bad moves last year, because the #1 bad move was hiring Wilks. Wilks was Dave Mac bad. In all .y years as a Cardinals fan, I dont think I've seen a worse coaching staff performance. Ive seen much worse rosters though. Justin Pugh is better than dozens of guards that have started for the Cardinals.

I agree with your post. The Cardinal FO was definitely too slow in realizing that the window had slammed shut once Carolina embarrassed us in the NFC Championship game. Somehow, BA convinced Keim that all we needed to do was add a few more veterans & we could contend again. That didn't happen, so we really did walk BA out the door. If he didn't retire, he would have been fired. Exit BA, enter Wilks. Yes, definitely one of the worst hires in Cardinal history. There will never be a more inept coaching staff, top to bottom, than last years group. I'm not a Bradford guy, but it was our system & schemes that sunk the ship, not Bradford. There was enough talent in that locker room last year for us to be considerably better than we were. We all know that. MB meddled & forced the Wilks hire. If Murray becomes what I think he'll become, then maybe we'll someday soon thank MB for that meddling.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Yes. Look how excited fans were about Bradford last season: https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/sam-bradford-a-cardinal.259870/

The enthusiasm is palpable. That “Not Glennon” energy was very strong.

Man, molkerman unhinged Bradford enthusiasm was impressive.

In my humble opinion, what we saw in 2018 was Keim hitting rock-bottom as a professional, and taking a peek into the abyss as a human being.

kerouac9, if your point is that, in 2018, the Cardinals were a very, very badly managed organization, I would agree. Krang, are you contesting this?

@Krang, how much Keim was sober, and focused on his job, after the conclusion of the 2017 season, is a matter of debate. But I'm guessing he had a drinking problem that got out of control in 2018, and everybody associated with the Cardinals paid the price for this.

 

[Krangodnzr]

In my humble opinion, what we saw in 2018 was Keim hitting rock-bottom as a professional, and taking a peek into the abyss as a human being.

kerouac9, if your point is that, in 2018, the Cardinals were a very, very badly managed organization, I would agree. Krang, are you contesting this?

@Krang, how much Keim was sober, and focused on his job, after the conclusion of the 2017 season, is a matter of debate. But I'm guessing he had a drinking problem that got out of control in 2018, and everybody associated with the Cardinals paid the price for this.

Badly managed for years.

The problem with the 2018 goes back to the beginning of the Keim regime. That was a team that needed to ID a young QB and rebuild. Moves to win now sometimes come at the expense of winning later.

Last years Cardinals had few offensive playmakers, poor playcalling, and an offensive line that severely lacked depth and also was trying to fit in three new starters which is tough for any team.

I was watching game tape from the 2009 Cardinals playoff win over the Packers. That was a BAD offensive line, but that offensive line stayed fairly healthy and had a few years of continuity.

On offense, I think Murray and one or two of the receivers will emerge to go with Fitz and Kirk. I think Johnson is going to reestablish himself as a good starting RB.

I think the defense is going to be top 15, but will have growing pains while PP21 is out. I think Reddick will take the next step and become a solid ILB this year.

6-10 to 9-7 is my prediction.