2019 Free Agency

[Proximo]

Yes, we could, but I hope that we won't.

I just can not buy Rose's rebuilding-breakout season. It was nice, he cried when interviewed, very touchy, but he is a 30-year old former superstar after several heavy injuries who always was a scoring 1st PG with limited defense.

Is he the one who we want to pair with Booker?

Yes, I would be very happy with that if the alternative is Cory Joseph.

 

[Yuma]

https://arizonasports.com/story/199...uld-trade-jackson-in-24-hours-if-they-had-to/

Windhorst says Suns could trade JJ in 24 hours if they needed to. Interesting in that it counters the belief he cannot be traded, or has no value.

Sorry I didn't see this posted earlier.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

https://arizonasports.com/story/199...uld-trade-jackson-in-24-hours-if-they-had-to/

Windhorst says Suns could trade JJ in 24 hours if they needed to. Interesting in that it counters the belief he cannot be traded, or has no value.

This doesn't really dispute the idea that he has no value. They could simply add an asset to the trade to make it happen.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

You miss something basic.

Oubre's cap hold does count in your team salary: not because he is a RFA, not because you sign another RFA to an offer sheet, it does count in your team salary because that is the rule. It counts in your team salary (therefore decreases your cap space) until you withdraw the qualifying offer and renounce his right OR let him sign to another team OR extend him and after his new contract will count in your pay-roll.

I don't know how you mean "you can not factor Oubre's cap hold into your cap space". Oubre's cap hold decreases your cap space.

I cannot explain it any better than I did.

 

[hcsilla]

I cannot explain it any better than I did.

And I already explained twice where you are wrong.

 

[GatorAZ]

Gambo talking up Rozier as his favorite choice for PG.

I mean why??? They are talking paying him like 15 million a year. That bum is not worth a penny over 5.

Edit: By the way Gambo said again Melton is gone - like 100% was the way he said it. Then said he is not sure about okobo.

Rather sign Glass Knees Rose than Rozier on a multi year deal.

 

[hcsilla]

This misses the point of my post. I'm quite aware the Oubre cap hold remains if the other team matches.

You are factoring Oubre's cap hold into your cap space. You don't actually have the free space without renouncing Oubre,

We actually do have cap space even without renouncing Oubre.

It's 13 mil. and you HAVE to add Oubre's cap hold to the team salary. After doing so the Suns have 13 mil. cap space.

Who you make an offer sheet to, it does not matter regarding your cap space. If Oubre is RFA or UFA, doesn't matter either, his cap hold does count.

 

[Proximo]

https://arizonasports.com/story/199...uld-trade-jackson-in-24-hours-if-they-had-to/

Windhorst says Suns could trade JJ in 24 hours if they needed to. Interesting in that it counters the belief he cannot be traded, or has no value.

Sorry I didn't see this posted earlier.

It is ridicuolous to think he cannot be traded.

He has a 1 year 7 million dollar deal, if he was in prison that contract could be traded with the right draft picks attached.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We actually do have cap space even without renouncing Oubre.

It's 13 mil. and you HAVE to add Oubre's cap hold to the team salary. After doing so the Suns have 13 mil. cap space.

Who you make an offer sheet to, it does not matter regarding your cap space. If Oubre is RFA or UFA, doesn't matter either, his cap hold does count.

Not sure what you all mean by "it does count" for what? That is the confusion.

It is best to go here. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/cap/2019/

Here is the low down.

If they renounce all of the possible contracts they can, the Suns have $22.3 million in cap space. That is what that "practical cap space" number is at the bottom.
If they stretch Tyler, they can count his remaining $19.245 number over three years rather than all in one. That could gain them an additional $12.83 million this year.
Since they have extended the QO offer to Oubre, their cap space has been reduced to $12.625 million (most are rounding this up to $13 million).
If they rescind the QO for Oubre, they are back up to the $22.3 million number.

I know I am probably saying the same thing you are, but I think I am saying it more clearly.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It is ridicuolous to think he cannot be traded.

He has a 1 year 7 million dollar deal, if he was in prison that contract could be traded with the right draft picks attached.

Jackson was the #4 pick in the draft and highly regarded. Whoever trades for him retains his RFA rights if he turns it around, otherwise they can let him go. It is a low risk proposition for a team that is not really in the FA market.

But what do I know? We had to give away the #32 pick to move Warren.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

We actually do have cap space even without renouncing Oubre.

It's 13 mil. and you HAVE to add Oubre's cap hold to the team salary. After doing so the Suns have 13 mil. cap space.

Who you make an offer sheet to, it does not matter regarding your cap space. If Oubre is RFA or UFA, doesn't matter either, his cap hold does count.

Sigh. I think maybe you don't understand the RFA loophole being discussed. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. Your responses are non sequitur.

 

[hcsilla]

Not sure what you all mean by "it does count" for what? That is the confusion.

It is best to go here. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/cap/2019/

Here is the low down.

If they renounce all of the possible contracts they can, the Suns have $22.3 million in cap space. That is what that "practical cap space" number is at the bottom.
If they stretch Tyler, they can count his remaining $19.245 number over three years rather than all in one. That could gain them an additional $12.83 million this year.
Since they have extended the QO offer to Oubre, their cap space has been reduced to $12.625 million (most are rounding this up to $13 million).
If they rescind the QO for Oubre, they are back up to the $22.3 million number.

Yes, correct.

 

[hcsilla]

Sigh. I think maybe you don't understand the RFA loophole being discussed. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. Your responses are non sequitur.

There is no RFA loophole. I tried to explain to you, because you seem totally confused how salary cap works. You don't understand what I'm saying, because I think your basics are somehow somewhere broken. I apologize, that I tried to help you. I gave up.

You should start here:

www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

Enjoy.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There is no RFA loophole. I tried to explain to you, because you seem totally confused how salary cap works. You don't understand what I'm saying, because I think your basics are somehow somewhere broken. I apologize, that I tried to help you. I gave up.

You should start here:

www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

Enjoy.

I think what he is talking about is the fact that the Suns can make an offer to another RFA player that cuts into the Oubre cap hold without actually rescinding the Qualifying offer to Oubre. They only have to rescind the offer if the other team declines to match (or signs the offer sheet, I am not sure which).

So, right now, the Suns could make a $22 million offer to DLo (using Oubre's QO number as part of that offer), and the Suns would only have let loose of their rights to Oubre if the Nets do not match (or DLo, signs the offer sheet, not sure).

I think it was Sidery that mentioned this the other day.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

There is no RFA loophole. I tried to explain to you, because you seem totally confused how salary cap works. You don't understand what I'm saying, because I think your basics are somehow somewhere broken. I apologize, that I tried to help you. I gave up.

You should start here:

www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

Enjoy.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2019/6/25/18715556/phoenix-suns-salary-cap-reset-free-agency

However, note this loophole: Oubre’s cap hold can be “used” as part of another RFA offer without giving up rights to Oubre unless it works.

If the other team declines to match, thus giving the player to the Suns, then at that point the Suns would have to renounce Oubre if they still need any or all of that cap hold for the new player’s salary. But if the other team matches and keeps the player, the Suns can still keep Oubre’s cap hold as if the other RFA offer never happened.

Enjoy.

 

[hcsilla]

I think what he is talking about is the fact that the Suns can make an offer to another RFA player that cuts into the Oubre cap hold without actually rescinding the Qualifying offer to Oubre. They only have to rescind the offer if the other team declines to match (or signs the offer sheet, I am not sure which).

So, right now, the Suns could make a $22 million offer to DLo (using Oubre's QO number as part of that offer), and the Suns would only have let loose of their rights to Oubre if the Nets do not match (or DLo, signs the offer sheet, not sure).

Geez, now I get it.

The article's wording of "using Oubre's cap hold as part of another RFA offer" is totally misleading and it sounds like as someone would completely misunderstand how salary cap works.

The key is that you actually do NOT use Oubre's cap hold when calculating cap space, you just ignore it.

As for this loophole, I have never heard about it. It's interesting and has some logic but I'm not sure it is legal.

If it is, the Suns can give a 80-90 mil./4 year offer sheet for Brogdon and the Bucks will have a hard time to decide if they match or not.

Then only two questions need to be answered by the Suns:

1. Isn't Brogdon overpaid with this contract?
2. Is he more valuable long-term than Oubre?

And the answers probably are:

1. Yes, a bit, but it still makes sense.
2. Yes.

And now only the basic question remains (that I think you mentioned): even if the Suns give him a big contract. why does he sign to Phoenix?

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not sure you're catching what I mean. Say you use Oubre's cap hold to offer a restricted free agent a contract. The RFA's current team decides not to match. Even if we have other ways of creating the cap space to take on the contract, are we now required by rule to renounce Oubre since we used his cap hold to offer the contract in the first place?

I don't believe there is any sort of additional tie-in to it that we would need to then renounce Oubre. We would just need to find a way to ensure we had the cap space if the team deciding to match or not elects not to. If we didn't have the actual cap space to complete the deal then I could see there being an issue where you may need to rescind that players rights because if you didn't, the RFA offer sheet you signed someone to was illegal since you don't have the space to complete it.

 

[hcsilla]

I'm not sure you're catching what I mean. Say you use Oubre's cap hold to offer a restricted free agent a contract. The RFA's current team decides not to match. Even if we have other ways of creating the cap space to take on the contract, are we now required by rule to renounce Oubre since we used his cap hold to offer the contract in the first place?

"If the other team declines to match, thus giving the player to the Suns, then at that point the Suns would have to renounce Oubre if they still need any or all of that cap hold for the new player’s salary."

It sounds that the Suns can ignore Oubre's cap hold, give an offer sheet to their target and if his team does not match, the Suns still can decide on their own how to create cap space (either by renouncing Oubre or stretching Johnson or perhaps trading Jackson).

 

[Mainstreet]

That’s a lot of cheddar for Barnes

It is but it looks like a slight discount than his current 4 year / $94,438,525 contract if it holds up.

 

[thephoenixson28]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2019/6/25/18715556/phoenix-suns-salary-cap-reset-free-agency

However, note this loophole: Oubre’s cap hold can be “used” as part of another RFA offer without giving up rights to Oubre unless it works.

If the other team declines to match, thus giving the player to the Suns, then at that point the Suns would have to renounce Oubre if they still need any or all of that cap hold for the new player’s salary. But if the other team matches and keeps the player, the Suns can still keep Oubre’s cap hold as if the other RFA offer never happened.

Enjoy.

We would need to Trade Jackson and Melton for Cap space. Stretch Tyler Johnson then sign DLo to the max. Then match Kelly oubre contract. But suns would need everything to fall in place. Kyrie to the Nets, Hopefully Oubre doesnt sign right away cuz we only have a certain amount of days to match. I hope it all falls in place

 

[Proximo]

We would need to Trade Jackson and Melton for Cap space. Stretch Tyler Johnson then sign DLo to the max. Then match Kelly oubre contract. But suns would need everything to fall in place. Kyrie to the Nets, Hopefully Oubre doesnt sign right away cuz we only have a certain amount of days to match. I hope it all falls in place

It's not happening - you should start getting prepared to be disappointed.

 

[Yuma]

I think Dlo and Oubre is Possible. Is it Probable? For many reasons not likely.

If the Suns were to pull that off, then front office bashing should be put on hold by all of us for at least until the season starts! LOL!

 

[Krangodnzr]

On 98.7 today, one of the national guys said he didnt think the Suns would have to add an asset to get rid of JJ. Color me a bit shocked.

 

[Yuma]

On 98.7 today, one of the national guys said he didnt think the Suns would have to add an asset to get rid of JJ. Color me a bit shocked.

When you look at his game, at worst he's a good off the bench player. He still has upside to become a starter. How many guys smoke weed in the NBA? I am guessing a high amount. That's probably not an issue. The personal screw ups, every team has an agency that looks into these things. It just boils down to a risk analysis. How many teams need his skill set? That I am not so sure about.

 

[Krangodnzr]

When you look at his game, at worst he's a good off the bench player. He still has upside to become a starter. How many guys smoke weed in the NBA? I am guessing a high amount. That's probably not an issue. The personal screw ups, every team has an agency that looks into these things. It just boils down to a risk analysis. How many teams need his skill set? That I am not so sure about.

Like 90% plus. I would be shocked if an NBA player said he didnt smoke weed.