Welcome Aron Baynes

[Hoop Head]

Here is info on how buyouts effect salary cap numbers, it's question 67 and 65 in the FAQ. 67 gives a short and sweet answer while 65 goes into detail with specifics and examples.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q67

 

[SunsTzu]

That's not true. His salary is what's on the books, if he agrees to take less in a buyout then Sarver saves money but the cap space doesn't change. If that were the case teams could make cap space much easier by simply buying out players all the time. Baynes cap hit is the $5.3 million for next year, buy out or not.

Edit- http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q67

64. What happens when a player is released? What are waivers? What is the Stretch provision?
Waivers are a temporary status for players who are released by their team.....

• A "buyout" is actually a combination of altering the player's contract to change the guarantee and/or payment schedule, then waiving the player (see question number 66).......

67. How do buyouts affect team salary?
Any guaranteed salary still owed to the player as the result of a buyout continues to be included in team salary, just as with any waived player. See question number 65 for details.


Only the agreed upon money guaranteed during the buyout counts towards the cap, and that number can be $0.

The reason you do not often see it is because both sides have to agree. If a player is worth the money then they are too valuable to the team to not receive compensation for, and if a player is not worth their money they will be sacrificing likely millions of dollars.

 

[SunsTzu]

Here is info on how buyouts effect salary cap numbers, it's question 67 and 65 in the FAQ. 67 gives a short and sweet answer while 65 goes into detail with specifics and examples.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q67

We're using the same source but reading it differently. Only guaranteed money counts towards the cap.

 

[Hoop Head]

We're using the same source but reading it differently. Only guaranteed money counts towards the cap.

And the guaranteed money is $5.3 million. If he agrees to take less that's on him but the guaranteed amount in the contract doesn't change based on a buyout. That stays the same. I'm 1000% confident on this. The guaranteed amount isn't the buyout amount, that is what the team ends up owing the player but isn't reflected in the NBA contract.

 

[SunsTzu]

And the guaranteed money is $5.3 million. If he agrees to take less that's on him but the guaranteed amount in the contract doesn't change based on a buyout. That stays the same. I'm 1000% confident on this. The guaranteed amount isn't the buyout amount, that is what the team ends up owing the player but isn't reflected in the NBA contract.

I guess we'll disagree as I see #64 explicitly showing that a buyout is a change in the guarantee(and/or payment schedule).

 

[Hoop Head]

I guess we'll disagree as I see #64 explicitly showing that a buyout is a change in the guarantee(and/or payment schedule).

Tweet Larry Coon, I guarantee the buyout doesn't effect cap space.

 

[Hoop Head]

Saw this on Reddit, apparently Baynes is a pretty good defensive big. Source

With the Celtics Big man on the court the Boston Celtics had a defensive rating of 101.4.

Off the court, 106.8.

For reference, that is the best defensive rating of any Celtic on the court who played > 600 minutes this season, and only comparable to Daniel Theis.

Other players DRAT on the floor?

Marcus Smart: 105.9

Al Horford: 105.5

Jaylen Brown: 105.5

Kyrie Irving: 105.9

The Suns best Defensive rating for guys who played >600 minutes? Richaun Holmes at 107.5

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Suns would free up what ever the difference is upon the agreed upon buyout and his current contract. Personally I'd gladly let him forfeit his entire contract if he doesn't want to be here. He'll have all of free agency to get fair market value, unlike an in season buyout where most capspace and exceptions are gone.

Agreed. You signed a contract. Players get traded. To teams that they don’t want to go to. Want your freedom? Give back your contract. In full.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd keep Baynes as well unless it comes off the books.

This. All day this. Otherwise why would any player ever stay with a losing club? It’s ridiculous letting viable players walk and effect your cap unless you affirmatively don’t want that player to ever see the floor. And that shouldn’t the case with Baynes.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's not true. His salary is what's on the books, if he agrees to take less in a buyout then Sarver saves money but the cap space doesn't change. If that were the case teams could make cap space much easier by simply buying out players all the time. Baynes cap hit is the $5.3 million for next year, buy out or not.

Then it’s a nonstarter for me. Suck it up Baynes. I mean who the Eff is Baynes to demand anything? He’s gonna be a prima Donna prick?!?

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Robert Sarver: Turning fans into cap gurus

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Edit- http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q67

64. What happens when a player is released? What are waivers? What is the Stretch provision?
Waivers are a temporary status for players who are released by their team.....

• A "buyout" is actually a combination of altering the player's contract to change the guarantee and/or payment schedule, then waiving the player (see question number 66).......

67. How do buyouts affect team salary?
Any guaranteed salary still owed to the player as the result of a buyout continues to be included in team salary, just as with any waived player. See question number 65 for details.


Only the agreed upon money guaranteed during the buyout counts towards the cap, and that number can be $0.

The reason you do not often see it is because both sides have to agree. If a player is worth the money then they are too valuable to the team to not receive compensation for, and if a player is not worth their money they will be sacrificing likely millions of dollars.

Hmm I’m not going to research, but does “teams salary” mean the same thing as “teams salary cap?” If not it’s still cap.

 

[Yuma]

Hmm I’m not going to research, but does “teams salary” mean the same thing as “teams salary cap?” If not it’s still cap.

I am thinking a teams salary can be less, equal to, or more than a teams salary cap.

 

[CardsFan88]

NBA contracts are 100% guaranteed save for various options team/player, which if activated, are guaranteed. NBA contracts are =/= NFL contracts.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And the guaranteed money is $5.3 million. If he agrees to take less that's on him but the guaranteed amount in the contract doesn't change based on a buyout. That stays the same. I'm 1000% confident on this. The guaranteed amount isn't the buyout amount, that is what the team ends up owing the player but isn't reflected in the NBA contract.

"A "buyout" is actually a combination of altering the player's contract to change the guarantee and/or payment schedule"

Doesn't that suggest that the buyout would change that 5.3m guarantee to whatever the two parties agree upon? If Baynes seriously wants out than he might legitimately be willing to take far less money to get out of his contract to sign with a contender.

 

[Hoop Head]

"A "buyout" is actually a combination of altering the player's contract to change the guarantee and/or payment schedule"

Doesn't that suggest that the buyout would change that 5.3m guarantee to whatever the two parties agree upon? If Baynes seriously wants out than he might legitimately be willing to take far less money to get out of his contract to sign with a contender.

Whatever they agree to in terms of a buyout does not change the cap, that's part of why you won't see anything on how much a player accepted in a buyout from their team. Look up players who have been bought out over the last couple of years, not a one will mention the amount the buyout was for or that the team now has X amount of cap space because of the buyout. Look up Tyson Chandler since we bought him out last season, that didn't change our cap situation at all either. If it did, or that was possible, then people would have talked up that idea last summer when we were looking to spend our cap space.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Whatever they agree to in terms of a buyout does not change the cap, that's part of why you won't see anything on how much a player accepted in a buyout from their team. Look up players who have been bought out over the last couple of years, not a one will mention the amount the buyout was for or that the team now has X amount of cap space because of the buyout. Look up Tyson Chandler since we bought him out last season, that didn't change our cap situation at all either. If it did, or that was possible, then people would have talked up that idea last summer when we were looking to spend our cap space.

I suppose the confusion came from the way you worded your last post. It seemed to completely contradict what the quote was saying. So a buyout does change the guaranteed money to the player, but just doesn't change the number against the cap.

 

[Hoop Head]

I suppose the confusion came from the way you worded your last post. It seemed to completely contradict what the quote was saying. So a buyout does change the guaranteed money to the player, but just doesn't change the number against the cap.

That is correct. It may change what the team owes the player but in the eyes of the league, as far as the salary cap is concerned, that amount will not change.

I see the issue. It's really something that should have examples in the CBA FAQ like some other issues do. Buyouts only become a regular thing in the last 4-5 years though. Before that if a player didn't like where he was traded he sat out and didn't get paid at all.

 

[Mainstreet]

It looks like a buyout as described above saves the franchise money but doesn't help the cap space. Unless a team wants to pocket some cash it really doesn't benefit the team much unless they want to get rid of the player for whatever reason. Saving money started the Suns down this long road of being bad so I don't like it unless it is absolutely necessary.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't remember why, but I did do some digging into this a couple of seasons ago. Hoop Head is right- cap is what it is, and no agreement is going to alter the cap. The only thing they can negotiate is the amount of money they pay for a buyout. Player could agree to $0 buyout, and the cap is going to remain unchanged. The only thing buyout does is change the amount of money the team has to pay them.

 

[elindholm]

I don't remember why, but I did do some digging into this a couple of seasons ago. Hoop Head is right- cap is what it is, and no agreement is going to alter the cap. The only thing they can negotiate is the amount of money they pay for a buyout. Player could agree to $0 buyout, and the cap is going to remain unchanged. The only thing buyout does is change the amount of money the team has to pay them.

The Suns' best chance is to find someone willing to take Jackson without sending any salary back. Good luck with that one. Otherwise, they've put themselves in no-man's land: too far under the cap to have a competitive roster, but not far enough under it to get a difference maker.

In related news, Hakim Warrick is available. He's about to turn 37 and played in the G-League last season.

 

[1Sun]

It looks like a buyout as described above saves the franchise money but doesn't help the cap space. Unless a team wants to pocket some cash it really doesn't benefit the team much unless they want to get rid of the player for whatever reason. Saving money started the Suns down this long road of being bad so I don't like it unless it is absolutely necessary.

For $arver, when is it not "absolutely necessary"?...

 

[SirStefan32]

Yeah, I would be shocked if the Suns found someone to take Jackson without including other assets.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, I would be shocked if the Suns found someone to take Jackson without including other assets.

I'd keep Jackson unless it costs the Suns a significant piece. I'm not sure when the Suns have to pick up his option for next season but it is probably soon. They can always waive him.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'd keep Jackson unless it costs the Suns a significant piece. I'm not sure when the Suns have to pick up his option for next season but it is probably soon. They can always waive him.

His option for next season was picked up last offseason. We have until the end of October to pick up his 4th year option, which I remember hearing previously was the plan. I think that was right after the arrest. Of course things look worse now and they may have changed their minds but I think not picking up his 4th year option would be a mistake, in that it would hurt what little trade value he has and also if he's retained for next season then we shouldn't be in a better position should the light come on for him. Using the stretch provision on him, if necessary, would lower his cap hit to just about $2.5 million a year.