Suns have discussed Warren, Jackson, #6 pick in trade packages

[Proximo]

Oy I think that’s a big overpay. I like Jrue. And I think we need a steady vet. And he’ll help establish a defensive mentality. But that’s trading a lot of youth (JJ and a high first round pick and even a still relatively young Warren - just 25) for a dude that’s already 29. He’s not going to be here when booker, Ayton, and bridges really hit their stride.

I’d be excited to get Jrue. More excited to see how he positively impacts the rest of the team. But likely lamenting how much we gave up for him. If we sub bridges for either jJ or Warren it’s a disaster imo.

You are not paying attention - Jackson and Warren are getting dumped no matter what.

 

[GatorAZ]

Oy I think that’s a big overpay. I like Jrue. And I think we need a steady vet. And he’ll help establish a defensive mentality. But that’s trading a lot of youth (JJ and a high first round pick and even a still relatively young Warren - just 25) for a dude that’s already 29. He’s not going to be here when booker, Ayton, and bridges really hit their stride.

I’d be excited to get Jrue. More excited to see how he positively impacts the rest of the team. But likely lamenting how much we gave up for him. If we sub bridges for either jJ or Warren it’s a disaster imo.

Weren’t you giving me crap for overvaluing our assets?

I agree I wouldn’t include Mikal but I would do our other two wings, #6 and our pick in 2021. Or another filler not named Bridges to make it work financially.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You are not paying attention - Jackson and Warren are getting dumped no matter what.

I’m okay with them being traded but I want value. I don’t think trading all that youth and potential for a 29 year old sometime eastern conference all-star is a great value-based deal.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Weren’t you giving me crap for overvaluing our assets?

I agree I wouldn’t include Mikal but I would do our other two wings, #6 and our pick in 2021. Or another filler not named Bridges to make it work financially.

I’ll give you crap when I think you over value a particular asset or when I think you undervalue a particular asset. I think I’m right in my valuations. And if I didn’t think that I’d have a crisis of self-confidence!

 

[Proximo]

If we could swing Warren, Johnson, the 6, the 32 and a future highly protected first for Jrue I’d do it aaaaalll day.

I don't understand why you have a higher opinion of Josh Jackson than Warren - Jackson is the inferior player.

 

[Proximo]

I’m okay with them being traded but I want value. I don’t think trading all that youth and potential for a 29 year old sometime eastern conference all-star is a great value-based deal.

They were going to be moved for cap space - and that is about all they are worth.

Getting a semi all-star pg for that and the 6th pick - which is likely a bench guy is a great deal.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't understand why you have a higher opinion of Josh Jackson than Warren - Jackson is the inferior player.

As a two-year player with superior ball handling skills, athleticism, and defensive potential he retains greater potential than does Warren who, admittedly, is the better (but much less reliable) player at present. I think what we saw out of Warren this year was peaked-out Warren.

 

[SirStefan32]

So the Pelicans would keep Ball as their PG? That seems unlikely. And why move up to #2 to take Barrett? Isn't #2 still Morant?

I'd be fine with Warren, Jackson, and #6 for Holiday, but that would be a big salary increase. How much room would the Suns have if they did that deal and then stretched Tyler's Johnson?

Warren and Jackson combine for $17,869,480. Last year's sixth pick made $4,871,280, so that would be 22,740,760. Jrue makes $26,131,111, so the increase would be 3,390,351. I am NOT an expert on salary cap, but my understanding is that with them renouncing everyone except for Oubre and Holmes, they would have just under $17M in cap space. Again, not quite an expert at this, so perhaps someone with better understanding of how cap space works can chime in and correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: That would be prior to them stretching Johnson's contract. That would give them another$12.8M to play with, I believe.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They were going to be moved for cap space - and that is about all they are worth.

Getting a semi all-star pg for that and the 6th pick - which is likely a bench guy is a great deal.

Your first paragraph is complete rumor and conjecture during lying season. In addition, there was no “going to be” as we’ve heard nothing actually pending.

And you’re looking at this in a vacuum of what they are all now, seemingly completely discounting what they all may be in 3-, 5-, and 7-years (retired for Jrue, and likely at peak -whatever that may be - for the three we traded away).

 

[Proximo]

As a two-year player with superior ball handling skills, athleticism, and defensive potential he retains greater potential than does Warren who, admittedly, is the better (but much less reliable) player at present. I think what we saw out of Warren this year was peaked-out Warren.

Yeah you could be right about warren having peaked.

But the odds of Jackson progressing at this point are very slim. History says there is less than a 10% chance of him becoming even average after the first 2 years he has had.

His offseason, is further making progression look unlikely

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Warren and Jackson combine for $17,869,480. Last year's sixth pick made $4,871,280, so that would be 22,740,760. Jrue makes $26,131,111, so the increase would be 3,390,351. I am NOT an expert on salary cap, but my understanding is that with them renouncing everyone except for Oubre and Holmes, they would have just under $17M in cap space. Again, not quite an expert at this, so perhaps someone with better understanding of how cap space works can chime in and correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: That would be prior to them stretching Johnson's contract. That would give them another$12.8M to play with, I believe.

Hmm, if that could result in signing randle and getting back Oubre and Holmes I think I’m onboard. Netting Jrue and randle for 6, Warren and jJ would be a no-brained for me. Which is why it has zero chance of coming to fruition.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah you could be right about warren having peaked.

But the odds of Jackson progressing at this point are very slim. History says there is less than a 10% chance of him becoming even average after the first 2 years he has had.

His offseason, is further making progression look unlikely

All valid points. I certainly may be clinging to hopes that we didn’t completely blow that pick.

 

[elindholm]

Warren and Jackson combine for $17,869,480. Last year's sixth pick made $4,871,280, so that would be 22,740,760. Jrue makes $26,131,111, so the increase would be 3,390,351. I am NOT an expert on salary cap, but my understanding is that with them renouncing everyone except for Oubre and Holmes, they would have just under $17M in cap space. Again, not quite an expert at this, so perhaps someone with better understanding of how cap space works can chime in and correct me if I am wrong.

Okay, but I'm assuming that they want to keep Oubre. (I wish they weren't giving up on Holmes, but apparently they are.) Oubre's cap hold would reduce the number.

Basically I'm wondering whether they could realistically pursue a decent PF if they trade the farm for Holiday.

 

[Proximo]

Warren and Jackson combine for $17,869,480. Last year's sixth pick made $4,871,280, so that would be 22,740,760. Jrue makes $26,131,111, so the increase would be 3,390,351. I am NOT an expert on salary cap, but my understanding is that with them renouncing everyone except for Oubre and Holmes, they would have just under $17M in cap space. Again, not quite an expert at this, so perhaps someone with better understanding of how cap space works can chime in and correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: That would be prior to them stretching Johnson's contract. That would give them another$12.8M to play with, I believe.

You know the suns could easily throw in Okobo or Melton, because they will not need both - that is another 1.6 million.

 

[GatorAZ]

So the Pelicans would keep Ball as their PG? That seems unlikely. And why move up to #2 to take Barrett? Isn't #2 still Morant?

I'd be fine with Warren, Jackson, and #6 for Holiday, but that would be a big salary increase. How much room would the Suns have if they did that deal and then stretched Tyler's Johnson?

Barrett and Zion are BFF’s.

 

[SirStefan32]

Hmm, if that could result in signing randle and getting back Oubre and Holmes I think I’m onboard. Netting Jrue and randle for 6, Warren and jJ would be a no-brained for me. Which is why it has zero chance of coming to fruition.

Okay, but I'm assuming that they want to keep Oubre. (I wish they weren't giving up on Holmes, but apparently they are.) Oubre's cap hold would reduce the number.

Basically I'm wondering whether they could realistically pursue a decent PF if they trade the farm for Holiday.

I screwed something up in my original calculation. Here is what I have now that I used an actual spreadsheet:

Devin Booker $27,250,000
Tyler Johnson $19,245,370
Deandre Ayton $9,562,920
Mikal Bridges $4,161,000
De'Anthony Melton $1,416,852
Élie Okobo $1,416,852
Jrue Holiday $26,131,111
Oubre (Hold) $9,625,890
Holmes (Hold) $1,618,520

$100,428,515
Cap is projected to be at $112,516,261, which leaves them with 12,087,746. If they renounce Holmes, then it would go up to $13,706,266. If they can attach Okobo or Melton to the trade, they could end up with $15M+.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I screwed something up in my original calculation. Here is what I have now that I used an actual spreadsheet:

Devin Booker $27,250,000
Tyler Johnson $19,245,370
Deandre Ayton $9,562,920
Mikal Bridges $4,161,000
De'Anthony Melton $1,416,852
Élie Okobo $1,416,852
Jrue Holiday $26,131,111
Oubre (Hold) $9,625,890
Holmes (Hold) $1,618,520

$100,428,515
Cap is projected to be at $112,516,261, which leaves them with 12,087,746. If they renounce Holmes, then it would go up to $13,706,266. If they can attach Okobo or Melton to the trade, they could end up with $15M+.

So no randle. Fechh

 

[SirStefan32]

You know the suns could easily throw in Okobo or Melton, because they will not need both - that is another 1.6 million.

Yeah, I added that to my updated (corrected) post.

They could probably figure out a deal for Johnson too- he declines the $19M option, and then give him 3 years at $36M or something like that. He gets paid more, and the Suns get another $7M to spend.

 

[GatorAZ]

You know the suns could easily throw in Okobo or Melton, because they will not need both - that is another 1.6 million.

New Orleans is over the cap and would need more incoming salary.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y2rp9gj7

If it’s a situation where they trade players draft rights after the new league year it could work but that’s unlikely.

 

[SirStefan32]

So no randle. Fechh

They can always stretch Tyler's contract, or come to an agreement to reduce salary this year but overpay him afterwards.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Man if 4 and 6 could fetch #2 I’d do whatever we need to do to get 4 (we already have 6).

JJ, warren, Milwaukee pick, #32, next years unprotected #1 and another future protected pick? That’s a haul. Particularly for a pick (#4) in a draft that is only 3 deep.

But if meant netting morant and clearing enough cap to sign randle and still resign Oubre, sign me the F up!

 

[SirStefan32]

New Orleans is over the cap and would need more incoming salary.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y2rp9gj7

If it’s a situation where they trade players draft rights after the new league year it could work but that’s unlikely.

Are you sure? Those salaries are pretty close, if you include Okobo or Melton.
There is always the Bucks pick. That would count, right?

 

[Yuma]

98.7 on the radio dial is interesting. Burns and Gambo yesterday were denying that the 6th pick, JJ, an TJ were being packaged. The web site said they are. Bickley and Marrota today are disagreeing politetly with Gambo by saying, "If you aren't trying to make trades right now, what the hell are you doing?" I caught a couple guests going in and out, and the opinions vary from they don't need a PG at 6 because of free agency, to get both a pick and a vet, to someone was even commenting that veterans were going to be too pricey for the Suns so you have to go with the 6th pick. On the radio it seems they are all over the place on the 6th pick.

 

[GatorAZ]

Are you sure? Those salaries are pretty close, if you include Okobo or Melton.
There is always the Bucks pick. That would count, right?

Cap holds for draft picks don’t count as salary in trades until they’re signed. As someone else mentioned Tyler would have to part of the deal if we want to acquire Holiday without giving up Bridges before the new league year.

 

[SirStefan32]

Eh, and it looks like the salary cap is $109M and not $112 like I thought. Yeah, no Randle without doing something with Tyler's contract.