One Last Off-Season Murray Thread

Harry

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Okay, I feel compelled to make it clear how I feel about Murray. It’s absolutely true he would not have been my choice. I’m more conservative and would have stayed with Rosen. I would have prioritized defense with the first pick. That said, that’s history. I still have concerns because from Andre Ware forward I’ve watched spread offenses come and die. The fun & gun, the K-gun and others died a slow death taking QBs with them. Part of the failure was due to the resistance to the idea that colleges could teach the NFL anything. Chip Kelly’s meteoric rise and fall further enhanced this view.

Things began to change as more teams began calling RPO plays. College QBs like Tim Tebow changed the college game by nearly perfecting variations of this play. In fact that Tebow was never given a true opportunity to run an NFL offense centered around RPO plays is yet another sign of prejudice. Then there’s Patrick Mahomes. He is the epitome of a mobile QB. The NFL has always been a copycat league. Now that he’s proven it can win, many teams want their own Mahomes’ style offense. The Cards are one of that group. It’s not surprising there’s skepticism considering Kingsbury was not a winning college coach. So the Cards built him an independent defense and hired a coach to handle it. Now it’s up to Kingsbury to prove his offense can score more points than the defense allows.

That’s where Murray comes in. There is little question he excelled in a similar offense. So the Cards grabbed him to give Kingsbury’s offense it’s best chance of success. There is no question Murray is a great athlete. There is also no question that last year he had one of the best years in NCAA history. So the question is simple, can he carry this success into the NFL? His odds are good. The Cards built a potentially great set of receivers. They secured some reinforcements for the O-line and already had a great RB. I don’t think they’re a playoff team. I do think they will likely be exciting to watch.

I don’t want to speculate beyond that until I’ve seen Murray play a game, so no more threads by me. However, I’m as excited as most of you are to see this offense come to fruition. I just wanted to make clear I’m not rooting against Murray. I just thought there was a better way forward.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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Okay, I feel compelled to make it clear how I feel about Murray. It’s absolutely true he would not have been my choice. I’m more conservative and would have stayed with Rosen. I would have prioritized defense with the first pick. That said, that’s history. I still have concerns because from Andre Ware forward I’ve watched spread offenses come and die. The fun & gun, the K-gun and others died a slow death taking QBs with them. Part of the failure was due to the resistance to the idea that colleges could teach the NFL anything. Chip Kelly’s meteoric rise and fall further enhanced this view.

Things began to change as more teams began calling RPO plays. College QBs like Tim Tebow changed the college game by nearly perfecting variations of this play. In fact that Tebow was never given a true opportunity to run an NFL offense centered around RPO plays is yet another sign of prejudice. Then there’s Patrick Mahomes. He is the epitome of a mobile QB. The NFL has always been a copycat league. Now that he’s proven it can win, many teams want their own Mahomes’ style offense. The Cards are one of that group. It’s not surprising there’s skepticism considering Kingsbury was not a winning college coach. So the Cards built him an independent defense and hired a coach to handle it. Now it’s up to Kingsbury to prove his offense can score more points than the defense allows.

That’s where Murray comes in. There is little question he excelled in a similar offense. So the Cards grabbed him to give Kingsbury’s offense it’s best chance of success. There is no question Murray is a great athlete. There is also no question that last year he had one of the best years in NCAA history. So the question is simple, can he carry this success into the NFL? His odds are good. The Cards built a potentially great set of receivers. They secured some reinforcements for the O-line and already had a great RB. I don’t think they’re a playoff team. I do think they will likely be exciting to watch.

I don’t want to speculate beyond that until I’ve seen Murray play a game, so no more threads by me. However, I’m as excited as most of you are to see this offense come to fruition. I just wanted to make clear I’m not rooting against Murray. I just thought there was a better way forward.
No matter which camp we were in prior to the draft, one thing should be the same. We're all Cardinals fans & we're gonna cheer for them no matter who is the starting QB. I'm excited to see this offense with Murray at QB. I think we will surprise some teams. The only problem KK had at TT was his defense, the Cardinals realized this & hired him a damn good DC with a solid staff through & through. They just need him to focus on calling plays, that's where he excels. We drafted some damn good WR's & we have #11 to help mold them to the NFL. I like our chances to be exciting/fun to watch this season. Nothing could be as bad as last yr.
 
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slanidrac16

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You don’t build a corvette with a 4 cylinder engine. To many times in the past we took a player and tried to mold him into the system.

Did the cards take a chance hiring KK? Many say yes. But in doing so they recognized what it would take to give him the best chance to succeed. From the coaching staff they put together especially on the defensive side to the players acquired on the offensive side necessary to make this corvette run.

Will it work? I think it’s got as good a chance or better than if we had hired Gase, Caldwell, or anybody else we interviewed.

Murray has a better chance exceeding with Kingsbury than maybe with a more conservative coach. This game is changing. College kids are coming into this league with nothing but a college style of play. That is not going to change . In fact I think it’s never going back to the good old days and the nfl is adapting rather than the college players adapting to the nfl.

I think this is going to be a fun ride. I’d be shocked if we made the playoffs this year, but I’ll be more shocked if Murray bombs out.
 
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Hoodhero

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It's all about that green grass. We will find out the truth in Sept. Last year was the 1st time, I had absolute no nervousiness before or during a game. When the butterflies return than team is in a good place for me.
 

football karma

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I’m more conservative and would have stayed with Rosen.

i think this is the dividing line on this board -- conventional wisdom vs. going against the grain. Murray represents the latter.

Then there’s Patrick Mahomes. He is the epitome of a mobile QB

interesting -- watching the Andy Reid Chiefs, i feel like 80% of their playbook are direct copies, or, riffs off college spread offenses. Since Andy is a long time NFL guy -- nobody calls it that

I do think they will likely be exciting to watch.
last year was the .worst combo: bad AND boring. At a minimum, this will be interesting
 

TJ

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Goes without saying that we’re all rooting for Kyler Murray regardless of how we felt about the selection. I still maintain that the right play was to keep Rosen and take Bosa or Williams. For this to be successful, Murray has to significantly outplay Rosen and be more valuable than either of the defenders.
 

Lagerfilled

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Willing to bet that Murray throws for more yards and has a better comp % in game 1 this Sept than Rosen did at any point in 2018.
 

az jam

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It will be a lot more exciting team to watch this season. They had a tough time scoring any points last year. Being a long time season ticket holder, I want to be entertained when i go to a game not bored. I'm actually looking forward to the preseason games and that is a first for me.
 

Krangodnzr

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Goes without saying that we’re all rooting for Kyler Murray regardless of how we felt about the selection. I still maintain that the right play was to keep Rosen and take Bosa or Williams. For this to be successful, Murray has to significantly outplay Rosen and be more valuable than either of the defenders.

If he is significantly better than Rosen, than hes better than Rosen + defender.
 

BleedRed

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The difference between Murray and players like Andre Ware is talent. Murray has elite mobility and elite arm talent. While the system he was in was great for QB's he also has the talent that will translate to the next level. I feel confident this "gamble" SK and MB have played will pan out big time.

I also agree with Harry's post in that KK is solely responsible for the offense and we have hired a defensive coordinator and staff that I think will quickly bring us back to being one of the elite defenses in the league where we belong.

As much as anything I think the support system of coaches around KK will allow his system to be successful, and now post draft our roster is much better prepared for the things he will want to do with this offense.
 

JeffGollin

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I suspect that the future success of the New Look Cardinals will have more to do with how well Murray executes one-on-one (i.e. completions, TD's, ground yards, interceptions) than how good the offensive system is put together.

A couple of other random observations:

- The Chipster's offense struggled in part because its pass-heavy philosophy gave the other team the ball for too much of the game.

- A hidden problem with a "different" offense is that too few QB's and other scheme-fitting players fill the pipeline (i.e. when your QB goes down, who's gonna replace him)?
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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I suspect that the future success of the New Look Cardinals will have more to do with how well Murray executes one-on-one (i.e. completions, TD's, ground yards, interceptions) than how good the offensive system is put together.

A couple of other random observations:

- The Chipster's offense struggled in part because its pass-heavy philosophy gave the other team the ball for too much of the game.

- A hidden problem with a "different" offense is that too few QB's and other scheme-fitting players fill the pipeline (i.e. when your QB goes down, who's gonna replace him)?
That's a question most teams can't answer regardless of the system they run. Also a lot of college QBs, of many different skill sets, are succesful in this style of offense and it would just be a matter of finding a backup that can handle the size, skill and speed of opposing defenses at the NFL level.
 

Cardinal

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The difference between Murray and players like Andre Ware is talent. Murray has elite mobility and elite arm talent. While the system he was in was great for QB's he also has the talent that will translate to the next level. I feel confident this "gamble" SK and MB have played will pan out big time.

I also agree with Harry's post in that KK is solely responsible for the offense and we have hired a defensive coordinator and staff that I think will quickly bring us back to being one of the elite defenses in the league where we belong.

As much as anything I think the support system of coaches around KK will allow his system to be successful, and now post draft our roster is much better prepared for the things he will want to do with this offense.

I bet a lot of people don't realize that Andre Ware had -144 rushing yards in his collegiate career. The athletism disparity between him and Kyler are substantial.

I suspect that the future success of the New Look Cardinals will have more to do with how well Murray executes one-on-one (i.e. completions, TD's, ground yards, interceptions) than how good the offensive system is put together.

A couple of other random observations:

- The Chipster's offense struggled in part because its pass-heavy philosophy gave the other team the ball for too much of the game.

- A hidden problem with a "different" offense is that too few QB's and other scheme-fitting players fill the pipeline (i.e. when your QB goes down, who's gonna replace him)?

Chip Kelly's offense struggled because it was pass heavy? I think there's some revisionist history going on there.

2013 Eagles
2nd in total yards,
4th in points per game
1st in rushing yards
9th in passing yards

2014 Eagles
5th in total yards
3rd in points per game
9th in rushing yards
6th in passing yards

2015 Eagles
12th in total yards
13th in points per game
14th in rushing yards
12th in passing yards

2016 49ers
31st in total yards
27th in points per game
4th in rushing yards
32nd in passing yards
 

BigRedRage

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I bet a lot of people don't realize that Andre Ware had -144 rushing yards in his collegiate career. The athletism disparity between him and Kyler are substantial.



Chip Kelly's offense struggled because it was pass heavy? I think there's some revisionist history going on there.

2013 Eagles
2nd in total yards,
4th in points per game
1st in rushing yards
9th in passing yards

2014 Eagles
5th in total yards
3rd in points per game
9th in rushing yards
6th in passing yards

2015 Eagles
12th in total yards
13th in points per game
14th in rushing yards
12th in passing yards

2016 49ers
31st in total yards
27th in points per game
4th in rushing yards
32nd in passing yards
h
his problem IMO was not having enough TOP, not that he didnt run the ball.
 

BleedRed

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Chip Kelly had a huge ego and if I remember correctly he was pretty much the gm as well. He traded Shady McCoy and for Kiko Alonso and released DeSean Jackson. He thought his system would work with sub par talent. I think they even let Jeremy Maclin walk. There is no comparison between the two situations.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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h
his problem IMO was not having enough TOP, not that he didnt run the ball.
His philosophy was to go no huddle and get the next snap off quickly (if I remember correctly). Obviously that comes with negatives such as a 3 and out means your defense got like a minutes of rest. I don’t suspect the Cardinals will be doing that. Probably plenty of no huddle, but not with the same philosophy for pace.
 

BigRedRage

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His philosophy was to go no huddle and get the next snap off quickly (if I remember correctly). Obviously that comes with negatives such as a 3 and out means your defense got like a minutes of rest. I don’t suspect the Cardinals will be doing that. Probably plenty of no huddle, but not with the same philosophy for pace.
exactly.
 

ARZCardinals

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He's by far the better chance at winning a Super Bowl over Josh with KK as the coach.
IMHO the Patriots would have been best served getting Josh to learn under TB for a year or two...then have Josh McDaniels take over and keep the train running.
Miami is as bad as AZ (other than the weather)...Josh's career path will maintain what it was last year....not good.

I wouldn't have taken a free ticket to see the Cardinals this year with Josh at the helm...but I'd pay to see Murray play.
 

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