Igor Fired

[Yuma]

My thinking of why I will be duped by the Suns this time around, is if they hire Monty, who is a veteran coach, (plus they brought in experience in Bower) I can think, well they ARE bringing in experience now. Maybe they ARE learning. Then I can be fooled one more season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It really doesn't make sense. Best case scenario the starting 5 was the opening game starting 5, Canaan, Booker, Ariza, Anderson, and Ayton. That's a team of vets? Who is coming off the bench? Warren, Jackson, and Chandler? They added Crawford but that's still not a veteran rotation. I know the average age of those players might be high 20's but that is because Chandler, Ariza, Crawford, and Anderson are all old as dirt. Booker is in his 4th year, Warren his 5th, Ayton a rookie, Jackson 2nd year, and Canaan was in his 4th or 5th. Canaan is the oldest of the youngsters at 27 but the rest need TJ to buy them beer. That's not a team of veterans, at all.

I think they expected "veteran" play, buy in, mentoring and support and they got something else. I believe Anderson was probably the only old guy that bought into the season but since he was glued to the bench he probably couldn't have helped much. Chandler and Ariza certainly didn't give us what was expected. And those two could have made a difference, not so much in the record but we might have seen some real growth from some of the young guys.

 

[Hoop Head]

My thinking of why I will be duped by the Suns this time around, is if they hire Monty, who is a veteran coach, (plus they brought in experience in Bower) I can think, well they ARE bringing in experience now. Maybe they ARE learning. Then I can be fooled one more season.

So much this! That's the pain of being a sports fan, you allow your team to play hell with your emotions over and over. We're all left with having to rationalize everything in our own heads so it always seems like they're doing the right thing up until they don't, then we find a way to justify that to ourselves also.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I think they expected "veteran" play, buy in, mentoring and support and they got something else. I believe Anderson was probably the only old guy that bought into the season but since he was glued to the bench he probably couldn't have helped much. Chandler and Ariza certainly didn't give us what was expected. And those two could have made a difference, not so much in the record but we might have seen some real growth from some of the young guys.

Don't forget Crawford. He may not be the player he once was but from a veteran presence standpoint I thought he was a huge value add.

 

[Mainstreet]

Don't forget Crawford. He may not be the player he once was but from a veteran presence standpoint I thought he was a huge value add.

Yes. Crawford was a solid veteran presence.

 

[Krangodnzr]

My thinking of why I will be duped by the Suns this time around, is if they hire Monty, who is a veteran coach, (plus they brought in experience in Bower) I can think, well they ARE bringing in experience now. Maybe they ARE learning. Then I can be fooled one more season.

It's like Amin El Hassan and other NBA insiders have basically stated, you can rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic....but until Sarver sells, nothing is going to change. One of the NBA insiders on 98.7 said he's talked to Earl Watson and some of the stuff he says about Sarver makes you know nothing is going to change until Sarver is gone.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Don't forget Crawford. He may not be the player he once was but from a veteran presence standpoint I thought he was a huge value add.

Yes, he provided the veteran presence we were hoping/expecting to get from Chandler and Ariza. But it took awhile for him to settle in with everyone and build the relationships and credibility he needed to move into a mentor role. But it was just one guy and too late to really do much.

Honestly, with a few exceptions, I loved the chemistry that we saw developing throughout the season and I'm confident that Crawford, Oubre and even Johnson had a lot to do with it. Expecting our star in the making to provide that kind of leadership is probably hoping for too much from a 22 year old. Hopefully Booker learned a lot about how to deal with his teammates from Jamal. It's an area Devin needs to improve on and Crawford is a walking poster for how to relate to co-workers.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yes, he provided the veteran presence we were hoping/expecting to get from Chandler and Ariza. But it took awhile for him to settle in with everyone and build the relationships and credibility he needed to move into a mentor role. But it was just one guy and too late to really do much.

Honestly, with a few exceptions, I loved the chemistry that we saw developing throughout the season and I'm confident that Crawford, Oubre and even Johnson had a lot to do with it. Expecting our star in the making to provide that kind of leadership is probably hoping for too much from a 22 year old. Hopefully Booker learned a lot about how to deal with his teammates from Jamal. It's an area Devin needs to improve on and Crawford is a walking poster for how to relate to co-workers.

I agree with that but if you look up how many teammates Booker has had it's insane. I doubt any other "franchise player" has come close to having such turnover around them. I remember hearing something about how he's had almost 60 different teammates in his 4 years in the league, averaging about 15 new teammates a year. The only constant has been TJ and they don't seem particularly close but TJ doesn't seem particularly close with anyone.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree with that but if you look up how many teammates Booker has had it's insane. I doubt any other "franchise player" has come close to having such turnover around them. I remember hearing something about how he's had almost 60 different teammates in his 4 years in the league, averaging about 15 new teammates a year. The only constant has been TJ and they don't seem particularly close but TJ doesn't seem particularly close with anyone.

I wasn't trying to take a shot at Booker but he's had to be the leader without a solid veteran presence around him to help him learn how to criticize and motivate players without burning bridges. AFAIC, Devin has exceeded reasonable expectations in this regard but he still clearly needs to do some growing.

 

[Hoop Head]

I wasn't trying to take a shot at Booker but he's had to be the leader without a solid veteran presence around him to help him learn how to criticize and motivate players without burning bridges. AFAIC, Devin has exceeded reasonable expectations in this regard but he still clearly needs to do some growing.

I should have been clear in my post, I didn't think you were taking a shot at him and was trying to add some reason as to why he may have had issues as the team leader. I don't imagine the turnover around him has helped because he doesn't have long enough with a teammate for their relationship to have ups and downs. As soon as he gets done getting to know them, both on and off the court, that guy is gone. I'm glad he's been as positive as he's been publicly because some players might become withdrawn in a similar situation.

Hell, that could be why TJ seems so withdrawn. He can't get used to his teammates because they're gone before he knows it. He's someone who relies on some consistency with them also because he won't play well with someone right off the bat but once a little chemistry is developed they'll learn where to find him on cuts and moves he makes.

 

[95pro]

Some anon quotes by players

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba...o-know-about-the-firing/ar-BBWixDs?ocid=ientp

 

[Suns_fan69]

Another told me that many of them would leave huddles or practice confused about what Kokoskov wanted them to do on the court. There was definitely a cultural and communication barrier between him and his players and it showed in many situations.

This was brought up a few times by various posters and I always thought it was preposterous and dismissed it as a possibility. Looks like I was wrong on this.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This was brought up a few times by various posters and I always thought it was preposterous and dismissed it as a possibility. Looks like I was wrong on this.

Yeah. Ditto. When first suggested I laughed at it but more and more it seems to have been a significant part of the coach to player relationship.

 

[BC867]

This was brought up a few times by various posters and I always thought it was preposterous and dismissed it as a possibility. Looks like I was wrong on this.

Everything in the article about players' comments were brought up throughout
the season by some of us.

We responded to posts by repeating it (too often) when it was denied (too often).

It is healthy that various posters have various areas of experience and points of
view and shouldn't hold back. The incompetence of management bears it out.

But I sure hope we don't have the need to repeat it next season.

And that the turnover of GM's and Head Coaches won't continue.


The Dodgers beat the Cubs 2-1 to hold on to first place in the
Division. Otherwise, the Diamondbacks would be in first place
right now.

The Suns are going to have a tough act to follow. And,
hopefully, following the Mercury's season as well.


'Sounds like pretty good motivation for the Suns to get
serious about winning games.

 

[sunsfan88]

This was brought up a few times by various posters and I always thought it was preposterous and dismissed it as a possibility. Looks like I was wrong on this.

Yeah. Ditto. When first suggested I laughed at it but more and more it seems to have been a significant part of the coach to player relationship.

Just weird to hear it because he ran the Suns practices back in 2012 or 2013 whenever Lindsay Hunter was in charge. Not anonymous sources on that either but Jared Dudley publicly confirmed this.

IIRC (and I may be wrong on this) but that team had a quite a few foreigners such as Dragic, Scola, Gortat, Pietrus etc so perhaps that helped in some sort of way.

Jazz players all said they loved having him and was a great assistant for them as well so the communication/translation there wasn't a problem there either.

The Suns players being so young perhaps plays a role in this.

 

[sunsfan88]

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Sarver needs to pick a direction and stick to it, at least now.

 

[Phrazbit]

You can't just throw this out there. His show is on demand for free. You should probably fact check that before dropping something like that without certainty. I can't imagine him saying something like that or the front office making that decision.

This is SF88's MO. He throws out absolutely absurd stuff from totally unreliable sources, gets people heated and then ducks any responsibility for the chaos.

I don't think he's a troll though, he's got other issues.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This was brought up a few times by various posters and I always thought it was preposterous and dismissed it as a possibility. Looks like I was wrong on this.

Yup. Mea culpa here too.

 

[sunsfan88]

This is SF88's MO. He throws out absolutely absurd stuff from totally unreliable sources, gets people heated and then ducks any responsibility for the chaos.

I don't think he's a troll though, he's got other issues.

You definitely have need to get over your obsession with me.

"Gets people heated" "chaos"...it's a sports forum for crying out loud. And I already responded to any posts responding to me about what I posted which was a question and not a statement.

 

[Phrazbit]

You definitely have need to get over your obsession with me.

"Gets people heated" "chaos"...it's a sports forum for crying out loud. And I already responded to any posts responding to me about what I posted which was a question and not a statement.

You're posting race baiting nonsense while providing absolutely nothing to give it relevance.

If I didn't know you were... something else... I'd think you were a pure troll.

 

[Hoop Head]

Just weird to hear it because he ran the Suns practices back in 2012 or 2013 whenever Lindsay Hunter was in charge. Not anonymous sources on that either but Jared Dudley publicly confirmed this.

IIRC (and I may be wrong on this) but that team had a quite a few foreigners such as Dragic, Scola, Gortat, Pietrus etc so perhaps that helped in some sort of way.

Jazz players all said they loved having him and was a great assistant for them as well so the communication/translation there wasn't a problem there either.

The Suns players being so young perhaps plays a role in this.

I don't think it was a language issue or an issue with his accent so much as what he was saying was misunderstood. The way you explain things to 8 or 9 year vets is a lot different than a 1st or 2nd year player. From what I noticed the players quoted seemed to mention having issues understanding what he was asking for, which could be taken either way. I know Oubre and Ayton said things like that in which their quotes were attributed to them. The accent probably didn't help but it could be either way. For instance, Crawford talked about him a good bit and I don't recall ever hearing him mention anything like that.

I do fully apologize for rebuking the idea that players couldn't understand him, regardless of which way he was misunderstood. We may never find out for sure and it doesn't really matter anymore.

 

[slinslin]

This was brought up a few times by various posters and I always thought it was preposterous and dismissed it as a possibility. Looks like I was wrong on this.

I am shocked, just shocked!

Was so obvious, could you imagine Igor giving a passionate speech in front of the team to inspire them?

While he speaks English well enough I definitely think he lacks vocabulary. That is my impression of hearing him talk at least.

In soccer we are talking all the time about coaching that a big part of coaching is motivating, inspiring and general people management skills.
Igor in preseason came out with the statement „I don‘t coach effort“.

When the team got bend over by refs he just took it with his stoic expression compared to Kerr or Popovic who would send some signal to the team or refs.

 

[GatorAZ]

Several players have mentioned the communication issues with Igor. How the Suns didn’t project a problem like that really speaks to their ineptitude in hiring coaches.

 

[sunsfan88]

You're posting race baiting nonsense while providing absolutely nothing to give it relevance.

If I didn't know you were... something else... I'd think you were a pure troll.

I asked a question, and did not post it as a fact.

Yeah you know I'm "something else". Your hostility doesn't surprise anyone. If your sister and I can learn to be cordial after all these years then you can learn to be respectful as well.

Keep your personal vendetta off and focus on basketball (players, coaches, whatever) as that's the purpose of the forum.

 

[Phrazbit]

I asked a question, and did not post it as a fact.

Yeah you know I'm "something else". Your hostility doesn't surprise anyone. If your sister and I can learn to be cordial after all these years then you can learn to be respectful as well.

Keep your personal vendetta off and focus on basketball (players, coaches, whatever) as that's the purpose of the forum.

lol, I don't have a personal vendetta, I just don't hesitate pointing out when some clown is posting totally unsubstantiated race baiting nonsense.

Years ago I sent you a DM, letting you know that your habit of copy and pasting other peoples posts on other forums was not cool and something that could get you banned... I could have gotten you banned if I actually took our disagreements personal.

But hey, attempting to rip on my family... way to try to keep things impersonal and respectful.