What is the plan?

[Hoop Head]

Based on Warren’s comments from the exit interview, it doesn’t sound like he really wants to come back to the Suns anyway. Probably better to do something about that before it gets ugly (like the many other times we’ve dealt with it recently).

Do you have a link for his comments? I don't recall reading or hearing anything from him.

 

[sunsfan88]

Do you have a link for his comments? I don't recall reading or hearing anything from him.

Yeah this is what I was talking about

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Perhaps I’m reading into it too much but it’s not even just the Suns rather it doesn’t even sound like he’s really all that interested in basketball.

I feel like ever since getting drafted, Warren has missed a lot of time for very mysterious injuries and head injuries and such.

I think the Suns are better off selling on him while his value is at its highest now before anything else happens.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah this is what I was talking about

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Perhaps I’m reading into it too much but it’s not even just the Suns rather it doesn’t even sound like he’s really all that interested in basketball.

I feel like ever since getting drafted, Warren has missed a lot of time for very mysterious injuries and head injuries and such.

I think the Suns are better off selling on him while his value is at its highest now before anything else happens.

I really don't know what to think about all this, Warren is a mystery to me. But I remember back just before TJ first stopped playing that I was constantly ripping him in the game day threads for what appeared to be half-hearted effort on his part. A day or two later though Koko said TJ was going to be out and he wasn't going to bring him back until he was completely pain free (or something like that). So again, I just don't know what to think about him, his play or his injuries.

 

[Hoop Head]

IIRC he had an incentive in his contract that required he make a couple more 3's for a $500,000 bonus, or something like that and that was one of the reasons he wasn't shutdown for the year like Oubre, Tyler Johnson, and Booker were. I'll have to try and find something about that but I think that's in line with the comments in a way. He wasn't particularly interested in playing to help the team so much as he was playing to get something for himself.

He's always come across as a weird guy, not that that's a bad thing but in the 5 years he's been a Sun one of the only things I've learned about him is he was good friends with Elfrid Payton, and that didn't come to light until we acquired Payton last offseason. I remember seeing some of the interviews with Warren after that trade was made where he was asked about Payton and he said they became fast friends at the NBA combine when they both entered the league but nothing else was really revealed about either of them.


I found some info on his incentives, he needed to take 185 3's and shoot 37% or higher from 3 in order to qualify for a $250,000 bonus. I'm not sure with how it's worded if he needed to hit both marks for a $250,000 bonus or if he was in line for a $250,000 for each of those marks. He had 180 3pt attempts, so he only needed 5 more attempts and he was shooting 42.8% from 3 so he could have literally missed all 5 and been fine in terms of getting his bonus.

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Here's a good link that discusses the incentives, his improvement from 3, and how he stacked up in the Most Improved Player race, while also comparing his drastically improved 3pt shooting with some former players because he had one of the largest year to year improvements in NBA history.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/12/28/phoenix-suns-tj-warren-most-improved-player-candidate/

 

[Carolinacacti]

yes lets get rid of the one Vet the Suns have. Unload him now so we can Keep J.J. Lord help me

 

[Hoop Head]

yes lets get rid of the one Vet the Suns have. Unload him now so we can Keep J.J. Lord help me

The main reason people are talking about trading him is to retain Oubre and still have some cash to spend on other free agents or to fill one of the holes elsewhere in our rotation. I don't think a single person is advocating for a Warren trade so we can retain JJ although I think keeping JJ for the duration of his rookie contract is preferable to keeping Warren for the duration of his contract. JJ plays good defense, Warren doesn't play defense. JJ is fine coming off the bench, Warren pouts when he's not starting. JJ doesn't miss half the season with mysterious injuries, Warren has a bone bruise that caused him to miss 43 games. It's debatable how they're each valued around the league right now but I think Warren would bring more back in a trade than JJ. So if we're looking to make a trade to improve the rotation I think Warren is a better trade asset than JJ is right now.

Considering what we saw from Oubre also I believe he's the best option to start at SF also which makes TJ the odd man out. He's a 6th man who doesn't want to accept that role here and he can't stay healthy either, why are we hanging onto him?

We already know who Warren is as a player and that player isn't a better fit next to Booker and Ayton than Oubre, Bridges, or JJ. So do we keep starting him ahead of them so he doesn't pout before he misses 20 games with some weird injury? We should trade him while we can. Those 3 are all younger than Warren and have more upside. TJ's 3pt shooting improved but it appears that was financially motivated. Unless there is an incentive for defense worked into next season I don't think we'll see him showing up playing great defense in September when camp starts.

 

[Mainstreet]

I would like them to make a decision on Warren before deciding on matching hefty deal for Oubre Jr. If Oubre Jr is the guy then they should trade Warren first imo before bringing back Oubre Jr.

Based on Warren’s comments from the exit interview, it doesn’t sound like he really wants to come back to the Suns anyway. Probably better to do something about that before it gets ugly (like the many other times we’ve dealt with it recently).

I think the Suns will likely have to bundle Warren if they want to move him. If we have questions about Warren, I think other teams will have questions as well. He has probably lost value over last seasons injury.

 

[BC867]

yes lets get rid of the one Vet the Suns have. Unload him now so we can Keep J.J. Lord help me

"Get rid of" ... "Unload" ... "one Vet the Suns have".

Dramatic comments, but hardly the basis for deciding if Warren and his history are best for the Suns.

I should hope that every player is held accountable for his performance, health history, attitude and
whether he fits or not. We are overloaded with Small Forwards and it comes down to who would be
the best to keep. Especially if moving Warren would get us a legitimate Point Guard or Power Forward.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think the Suns will likely have to bundle Warren if they want to move him. If we have questions about Warren, I think other teams will have questions as well. He has probably lost value over last seasons injury.

Warren has a lot of value.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The main reason people are talking about trading him is to retain Oubre and still have some cash to spend on other free agents or to fill one of the holes elsewhere in our rotation. I don't think a single person is advocating for a Warren trade so we can retain JJ although I think keeping JJ for the duration of his rookie contract is preferable to keeping Warren for the duration of his contract. JJ plays good defense, Warren doesn't play defense. JJ is fine coming off the bench, Warren pouts when he's not starting. JJ doesn't miss half the season with mysterious injuries, Warren has a bone bruise that caused him to miss 43 games. It's debatable how they're each valued around the league right now but I think Warren would bring more back in a trade than JJ. So if we're looking to make a trade to improve the rotation I think Warren is a better trade asset than JJ is right now.

Considering what we saw from Oubre also I believe he's the best option to start at SF also which makes TJ the odd man out. He's a 6th man who doesn't want to accept that role here and he can't stay healthy either, why are we hanging onto him?

We already know who Warren is as a player and that player isn't a better fit next to Booker and Ayton than Oubre, Bridges, or JJ. So do we keep starting him ahead of them so he doesn't pout before he misses 20 games with some weird injury? We should trade him while we can. Those 3 are all younger than Warren and have more upside. TJ's 3pt shooting improved but it appears that was financially motivated. Unless there is an incentive for defense worked into next season I don't think we'll see him showing up playing great defense in September when camp starts.

What? You can't be serious.

 

[Mainstreet]

Warren has a lot of value.

When healthy Warren has value. I've been mostly pro Warren until this past season but I think there are question marks.

I seriously question the Suns could trade Warren for a first round pick straight up until he proves he is healthy and wants to play.

 

[AZCrazy]

Likely moving TJ will be contingent on how the lottery falls. If we're out of the top 3, it may change our view on him sticking around.

We KNOW we need a PG first and foremost this offseason. It may be too tall an order to replace PG and PF with veterans of any caliber, on a budget.

 

[JCSunsfan]

When healthy Warren has value. I've been mostly pro Warren until this past season but I think there are question marks.

I seriously question the Suns could trade Warren for a first round pick straight up until he proves he is healthy and wants to play.

Mid first rounder, easy. Maybe even late lottery. Warren is an automatic high-efficiency scorer with three-point capability. That is valuable in this league. His injuries have been nagging types, not major.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Mid first rounder, easy. Maybe even late lottery. Warren is an automatic high-efficiency scorer with three-point capability. That is valuable in this league. His injuries have been nagging types, not major.

I have no idea what we could get for him. Healthy, committed, I think his play warrants a good lottery pick. But as an actual trade chip, I'm not sure he could draw even a first rounder right now.

 

[Mainstreet]

Mid first rounder, easy. Maybe even late lottery. Warren is an automatic high-efficiency scorer with three-point capability. That is valuable in this league. His injuries have been nagging types, not major.

I certainly hope you are right. The Suns could use the salary space and the pick in a trade.

 

[Hoop Head]

What? You can't be serious.

It may just be a coincidence that he had an incentive in the first year of his contract that called for him to improve his 3pt shooting above any level he shot since he's been in the league, sure, but that is quite the coincidence. Last year was the first year that his contract had performance based incentives since it was his first year on a real contract and not a rookie scale deal.

Maybe it is just a coincidence that he chose last offseason to work on his 3pt shot aggressively, that's possible. Whether it was a coincidence or not as to why he improved it I do recall hearing Gambo mention the incentive and Duane Raskin mentioning it when asked about why TJ wasn't shutdown for the year. Both stated he was very close to hitting a performance incentive that he wanted to come back for because it could mean an extra $500k for him. He was never shutdown despite missing time going back to about 2 weeks before the All-Star break.

When factoring everything in, it's not absurd to think it may have been more than a coincidence.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Warren has a lot of value.

no. one dimensional player who brings literally nothing else to the table except scoring in garbage time and is constantly injured doesn't have a lot of value.

 

[Yuma]

So on the Cards board they just went through this with Warren, by a lot of the posters over valuing Rosen and being pissed when Miami only gave a late 2cnd and fifth for him.

 

[Phrazbit]

He's an efficient scorer with a good outside shot. That provides a lot of value... he also is oft injured, doesn't know how to pass and doesn't play defense... bringing him back down several pegs.

I suspect we wouldn't struggle to move him but I also don't think we'll get anything back for him besides a vet with varied flaws or an uninspiring draft pick.

 

[slinslin]

So on the Cards board they just went through this with Warren, by a lot of the posters over valuing Rosen and being pissed when Miami only gave a late 2cnd and fifth for him.

Rosen was total garbage last year.

Warren had the best year of his career and put up elite scoring/shooting numbers.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He's an efficient scorer with a good outside shot. That provides a lot of value... he also is oft injured, doesn't know how to pass and doesn't play defense... bringing him back down several pegs.

I suspect we wouldn't struggle to move him but I also don't think we'll get anything back for him besides a vet with varied flaws or an uninspiring draft pick.

He was playing above average defense there for a short while so we know he can do it. It stopped a few games before we heard about his injury so who knows whether it was lack of desire or pain?

While I've been one of his more vocal detractors, this oft-stated idea that he's a one trick pony just doesn't tell the story IMO. He gets his points on offensive rebounds and they are usually the type of board that would almost always go the other way if he hadn't snuck in, grabbed it and put the ball back in - so he scores which is great but he also gains us possessions which is incredibly valuable. Besides, in a game where scoring is everything, can an efficient and productive scorer really be a "one trick" player?

But you're right, we won't get much back in return. IMO unless he's hurting the chemistry in some way, he's worth a lot more to us on the court than he would be in a trade. If that changes, I'm all for moving him because even though I don't consider him a one-trick pony, he's certainly not a Jack of all trades kind of player either and with our star being who he is, I think we need a more versatile player out there.

 

[Yuma]

Rosen was total garbage last year.

Warren had the best year of his career and put up elite scoring/shooting numbers.

He did have a great year clouded by injury at the end. The one thing that does not help, is he is not a guy who makes his own shots like the top guys. He doesn't carry teams. I really hope we keep him because he is productive, but he doesn't have that killer mentatility like Booker.

 

[Superbone]

I don't care how good Warren is. If he can't stay on the floor, it doesn't matter. I'm ready to move on.

 

[elindholm]

It's impossible to evaluate Warren fairly because (a) he's often hurt and (b) the Suns have been terrible. I think he could be a very valuable third scorer on a decent team, but we haven't had the opportunity to find out yet. He's not a #1, but he and Booker were on the active roster together for something like only 30 games last year, and of course Ayton is a major work in progress.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Here's my offseason bucket list. Hire Monty Wiliams as Head Coach. If he's willing, bring Koko back in to do some scouting and player development and then draft Zion with the number 1 pick, trade the Milwaukee pick plus 2 unprotected future picks for Morant (if they like him more than the other PG options), re-sign Oubre, Holmes and maybe Bender, decide to keep or move on from Warren and that's a wrap.