Stability should be the key word for the Suns from now on

1Sun

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Does that have anything to do with the fact that we have had awful GMs, coaches and rosters?

We need competence first, THEN stability.

Stable incompetence is still incompetence. Stable losing is still losing.
 

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I found the author of this article on Twitter, the article is also on Bright Side as well, here's a link. Here is a link to the author on Twitter, if anyone is interested in that, his name is Rod Argent.

He seemed to research that piece quite well and I highly recommend everyone read it. It may be a harsh reminder of how bad things have been but it does compare the last 2 years to the previous 8 and highlights the turnover there's been. Everyone knows it's been bad but seeing the numbers makes it worse, like how

the Suns have had a total of 63 different starting lineups. In the previous four seasons, they had a total of 53. If you want to go back to the eight previous seasons, the total is 100 different starting lineups. That’s 100 different starting lineups over eight seasons versus 63 in just two seasons.

That's just one part of it though.
 

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Does that have anything to do with the fact that we have had awful GMs, coaches and rosters?

We need competence first, THEN stability.

Stable incompetence is still incompetence. Stable losing is still losing.

Jesus, all you do is whine. Why do you even follow the team? You just KNOW they're going to continue to be awful so quit watching. They have a new GM and a new VP of Basketball Operations right now but you've already written them off. Jones was in the role last year with an interim tag and he didn't do a terrible job. He definitely wasn't incompetent like you claim but that doesn't matter to you, you'll say it anyways even though you can't back it up with facts.

You saw a new thread with an article that's linked to discuss and rather than read it, you think you already have all of the answers and start your Suns bashing. It's not even complaining, all you do is bash the Suns so why the hell are you here? You take no joy in watching this team and you're 100% convinced nothing will change, so what is it? You're not a fan, I feel comfortable saying that because all you do is try to convince other fans why they're wrong for following the team and having hope. So other than trolling, what reason do you post, honestly? I can't make sense of it, enlighten me.

I realize I made the mistake of clicking the "see ignored posters comments" button but that's because the thread was brand new, I was curious what could be added to a new thread with an article that was posted 15 minutes ago and I saw why I had you ignore but I figure since I read your nonsense I'd ask why you incessantly bash the Suns to the point of ignoring facts and why do you try to convince others they're wasting their time by following and supporting the team.
 
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So the author is implying we go with Igor for one more season in order to give him a chance with a PF and a PG. I did notice the last two weeks of the season, players were finally getting lay ups on back door cuts regularly. It seemingly took all season for our players to get to that option in the offense. Maybe the lightbulb is starting to go on?
 

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So the author is implying we go with Igor for one more season in order to give him a chance with a PF and a PG. I did notice the last two weeks of the season, players were finally getting lay ups on back door cuts regularly. It seemingly took all season for our players to get to that option in the offense. Maybe the lightbulb is starting to go on?

We had a lot of young players that needed to be taught the NBA game. They didn't have the veterans that most thought they would to help them along so Igor had to spend more time teaching then I think anyone initially assumed. I'm all for giving him another year, not because I'm an apologist or "love him", I'm not even really a fan of his, but I think he deserves a fair shake. When he had a healthy roster last year after we'd ditched dead weight like Anderson, Ariza, and Chandler and replaced them with Tyler Johnson and Oubre we looked like a legit NBA team. How good that team could be, I'm not sure, but I feel pretty confident in saying they're much better than the entire season's record would say. They were 8-13 after the All-Star break, I believe, and that's not great but that's more of a winning percentage that I think most predicted. That's also with a lot of losses because we had players go down quick with injuries as well so it could be improved upon with health alone.
 

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Jesus, all you do is whine. Why do you even follow the team? You just KNOW they're going to continue to be awful so quit watching. They have a new GM and a new VP of Basketball Operations right now but you've already written them off. Jones was in the role last year with an interim tag and he didn't do a terrible job. He definitely wasn't incompetent like you claim but that doesn't matter to you, you'll say it anyways even though you can't back it up with facts.

You saw a new thread with an article that's linked to discuss and rather than read it, you think you already have all of the answers and start your Suns bashing. It's not even complaining, all you do is bash the Suns so why the hell are you here? You take no joy in watching this team and you're 100% convinced nothing will change, so what is it? You're not a fan, I feel comfortable saying that because all you do is try to convince other fans why they're wrong for following the team and having hope. So other than trolling, what reason do you post, honestly? I can't make sense of it, enlighten me.

I realize I made the mistake of clicking the "see ignored posters comments" button but that's because the thread was brand new, I was curious what could be added to a new thread with an article that was posted 15 minutes ago and I saw why I had you ignore but I figure since I read your nonsense I'd ask why you incessantly bash the Suns to the point of ignoring facts and why do you try to convince others they're wasting their time by following and supporting the team.

So you're now trying to run me off the board, too? Only polly-annas are welcome here to you?

I guess we all know where you stand politically...

And to answer your question, I grew up on the Suns and have been a fan for 44 years. I WANT to see change for the better, and my "whining" is in response to those, like you, who prefer "stability" to the change that is needed to return the franchise to the glory days I remember.

I "complain" in response to those who either claim we should just stay the current proven failure of a course or who make suggestions, like settling for playing Tyler Johnson out of position at point guard, that I believe are sure to continue that failure of a course.

I have made several constructive suggestions in terms of a coach (Walton, Gentry, Joerger, Williams), a GM (Griffin, Bower as GM), a point guard (Teague, Collison, Russell, Conley, Holliday, Dunn) and a power forward other than Zion (Mirotic, Randle, drafting Hunter). I don't see you responding to those.

What I don't want to see anymore are people filling key positions where they clearly do not have the experience, skill set, qualifications and/or ability for those positions. Our "new" GM falls into that category, and yet he has authority over our new VP who DOES have the necessary criteria for the GM position. That's more "bad management", as referenced in the article.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Suns ownership and management, by that definition, have been "insane", and now there are those on this board who in recommending the same are following suit.
 
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They were 8-13 after the All-Star break, I believe, and that's not great but that's more of a winning percentage that I think most predicted. That's also with a lot of losses because we had players go down quick with injuries as well so it could be improved upon with health alone.
That is impressive since basically the last two weeks were without Booker, Ayton, Oubre, TJ, etc.
 
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@Hoop Head Señor Caca Cabeza - Maybe a sombrero made out of poop? LOL!

Or a sombrero with those little puff balls hanging down? Only the puff balls repalced with turds?

You must be registered for see images attach
 

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So you're now trying to run me off the board, too? Only polly-annas are welcome here to you?

I guess we all know where you stand politically...

I'm not trying to run anyone off the board, I asked you a question. To answer that question you need to stay on the board so come on, prove you aren't a troll. You bash the Suns relentlessly, even when they put new people in charge you write them off as "same old, same old" and you also try to convince others they're foolish for supporting the team and having hope, so please tell me, why are you here? You don't enjoy the team, right? You don't have hope for the future, right? So...are you only here to bash them and try to win others over to your "anti-Suns" side?

Why get political? Go ahead and finish your accusation. I'd love to know what you think I am politically.
 

1Sun

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I'm not trying to run anyone off the board, I asked you a question. To answer that question you need to stay on the board so come on, prove you aren't a troll. You bash the Suns relentlessly, even when they put new people in charge you write them off as "same old, same old" and you also try to convince others they're foolish for supporting the team and having hope, so please tell me, why are you here? You don't enjoy the team, right? You don't have hope for the future, right? So...are you only here to bash them and try to win others over to your "anti-Suns" side?

Why get political? Go ahead and finish your accusation. I'd love to know what you think I am politically.

I've answered your question. Go and read the rest of my post. Then we'll see who the real "troll" is.

And to answer your other question, alt-right facist.
 

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I've answered your question. Go and read the rest of my post. Then we'll see who the real "troll" is.

And to answer your other question, alt-right facist.

Alt-right facist? Why am I'm not surprised you can't spell "fascist".

Of course you had to edit your post after I replied to it, like I'm sure you'll do here.

You claim to only bash the team in response to others but you were the first post here, bashing the Suns before anyone said anything. Bashing the NEW management because of course you know how that will turn out. Yeah, I'm not buying your excuses. Thanks for reminding me why I had you on ignore.
 

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Alt-right facist? Why am I'm not surprised you can't spell "fascist".

Of course you had to edit your post after I replied to it, like I'm sure you'll do here.

You claim to only bash the team in response to others but you were the first post here, bashing the Suns before anyone said anything. Bashing the NEW management because of course you know how that will turn out. Yeah, I'm not buying your excuses. Thanks for reminding me why I had you on ignore.

Really? Your response is to pick on a typo of mine? Like I said, we now can see who the "troll" is. (And incidentally, I find it noteworthy that you did not deny my characterization of you as alt-right.)

Meanwhile, for the legitimate posters here, please answer me this: How is James Jones as permanent GM, rather than interim GM, "NEW management", particularly with the same head coach in place?
 
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We had a lot of young players that needed to be taught the NBA game. They didn't have the veterans that most thought they would to help them along so Igor had to spend more time teaching then I think anyone initially assumed. I'm all for giving him another year, not because I'm an apologist or "love him", I'm not even really a fan of his, but I think he deserves a fair shake. When he had a healthy roster last year after we'd ditched dead weight like Anderson, Ariza, and Chandler and replaced them with Tyler Johnson and Oubre we looked like a legit NBA team. How good that team could be, I'm not sure, but I feel pretty confident in saying they're much better than the entire season's record would say. They were 8-13 after the All-Star break, I believe, and that's not great but that's more of a winning percentage that I think most predicted. That's also with a lot of losses because we had players go down quick with injuries as well so it could be improved upon with health alone.

I had to look it up to see it with my own eyes. Suns going 8-13 after the All-Star break is amazing with all the injuries.

The Suns should be ready to make a big jump next season if the Suns improve the point guard and power forward positions.

It's so important for the Suns to maintain stability by keeping Oubre, Holmes and hopefully Johnson.
 

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I had to look it up to see it with my own eyes. Suns going 8-13 after the All-Star break is amazing with all the injuries.

The Suns should be ready to make a big jump next season if the Suns improve the point guard and power forward positions.

It's so important for the Suns to maintain stability by keeping Oubre, Holmes and hopefully Johnson.

It's really sad that we are aspiring to a winning percentage that is the equivalent of 8-13. That's still on pace to lose over 50 games a season.
 

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I had to look it up to see it with my own eyes. Suns going 8-13 after the All-Star break is amazing with all the injuries.

The Suns should be ready to make a big jump next season if the Suns improve the point guard and power forward positions.

It's so important for the Suns to maintain stability by keeping Oubre, Holmes and hopefully Johnson.

I remember hearing it but I avoided looking it up because it sounded so good. LOL... I'm sure you understand. I did look it up now though and that is right. Ayton missed the final 5 games, Booker missed the last 4, I think Oubre missed the last 8 or 9 and so did Tyler Johnson. So that is something to build on. I don't think it's hard to see they stood a real chance of going 500 if they were healthy. Who knows if they could have done better than that but 500 would have been enough that I think most of the negative voices would be silenced.
 

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I remember hearing it but I avoided looking it up because it sounded so good. LOL... I'm sure you understand. I did look it up now though and that is right. Ayton missed the final 5 games, Booker missed the last 4, I think Oubre missed the last 8 or 9 and so did Tyler Johnson. So that is something to build on. I don't think it's hard to see they stood a real chance of going 500 if they were healthy. Who knows if they could have done better than that but 500 would have been enough that I think most of the negative voices would be silenced.

It builds a case for keeping Tyler Johnson and of course Oubre.

When Tyler first arrived it took him a number of games to acclimate to the Suns.
 

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not only is 8 of 13 not good, it's also cherry picked
the exact period before that we were 0 for 17.
and we closed the season 3 of 15 (with injuries and tank aspirations like a lot of other teams)

regardless, i did and do believe this team has a lot more talent than their record reflects
(but i will not speculate as to why they under achieved -- for fear of invoking the wrath of the wraith)
 

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regardless, i did and do believe this team has a lot more talent than their record reflects
(but i will not speculate as to why they under achieved -- for fear of invoking the wrath of the wraith)
So do all the other tankers from last year. Your as bad as 1 Sun. Go find a better team because the Suns are going to lose next year too.
 

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So do all the other tankers from last year. Your as bad as 1 Sun. Go find a better team because the Suns are going to lose next year too.

sorry, but "if you don't like it, leave" doesn't work for my country or team. you leave! apparently you're (not "your") the one who is counting them out before they even make their moves, so maybe you should "go back to where you belong" and annoy someone on the Hornets forum!

i believed the tank was deceiving the last 4 seasons and the Suns could win as much as 40 games this one and i've been saying the talent is better than their record ALL season
 
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I am of the opinion that we as fans over rate our own talent. It's good to watch playoff teams and see guys and teams and compare them to how our guys and team play. My impression is we are NOT that talented, and certainly not that deep as many of the teams in the playoffs. We have a ways to go. That's why I do see value in guys like JJ and TJ because you do need depth on your team. Holmes is also a great back up. We need PF starter and back up player. I notice we lack bigs on our team. So basically we are only set at Center as far as the Ayton/Holmes combo and the SF position with countless guys. We need a good back up for Booker, two PGs and two PF's. I think we need at least 5 good upgrades before we are a legit NBA team, imho.
 

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surely not playoff talented
but better than 2018 talented and better than 2019, 19-63 talented
the average prediction here was 37 wins (twice as many)

it wasn't long before we started benching the vets and we dumped Canaan
from there, we got a few new pieces to go with our promising rookies and our energy and defense improved,
the lack-of-talent excuse doesn't explain us finishing with the worst record in Suns' history

this is not the least talented team in Suns' history
 
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i'd speculate that there were quite a few less talented Suns teams including every team Booker has been on before this one.

when we were led by a pg whose most note-worthy attribute was his Socks also comes to mind (though i don't recall the roster)
 
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i'd speculate that there were quite a few less talented Suns teams including every team Booker has been on before this one.

when we were led by a pg whose most note-worthy attribute was his Socks also comes to mind (though i don't recall the roster)
Sebastian Telfair led Suns were not good, too!
 
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