The Case For Jim Hart For The Hall Of Fame

NJCardFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Posts
14,974
Reaction score
2,967
Location
Bridgeton, NJ
Lost in an era that had Roger Staubach, Fran Tarkenton, Bob Griese, Ken Stabler, Joe Namath, and other gun slingers, Jim Hart was the lab rat for an innovative way to run an offense. Never playing for teams blessed with great defenses, the Cardinals offense was often up there with the best of them. Also, he played in a division with the Cowboys and Redskins often fighting it out with them for division supremacy. He started 180 of 199 games in an 18 year career for the St. Louis Cardinals who would replace him often, especially early in his career but in the end the team always fell back onto him. In games where he was credited with a win, loss, or tie, he went 87-88-5. Not a stellar win/loss record, and a glaring 0-2 playoff record. But his passing numbers are a little better:

2593 of 5076 for a 51.1 comp %. Again, not stellar but not bad considering when he played the rules were very different than they are today but he did throw for 34,665 yards which is an impressive state even by today's standards. I equate this to a baseball player hitting 500 home runs. His 207 TD's are overshadowed by his 247 interceptions(including a whopping 30 in 1967). But his ability to lead the Cards in comebacks helped earn the team the name of Cardiac Cards. The amazing thing is how he came into the league in the first place. Back in the days when the NFL draft was an amazing 20 rounds, Hart was not drafted and walked onto the Cards in 1966 as an UDFA. That year, the Cards drafted 3 other QB's to compliment starter Charlie Johnson and backup Terry Nofsinger giving the Cards 7 training camp QB's. 2 of those drafted were taken in the top 10. In that crowded field, Jim Hart made the team. The following season, he was named the starter throwing for a then ridiculous 3,008 yards in an era where only a few QB's would pass for 3,000 yards.

Now, if you compare him with other QB's of the time who are in the hall of fame, he definitely belongs in there. Joe Namath, if you look at his numbers, they are very pedestrian. Overall, Hart's numbers are better. But Namath was flamboyant, won a Super Bowl, and played in NY. His numbers are also better than Ken Stabler, Bob Greise, Bobby Layne, and are comparable to Terry Bradshaw, Len Dawson, & Bart Starr. Hart's lack of success in the playoffs shouldn't keep him out of the hall of fame as it wasn't his fault the team never had a competitive defense. He helped put up enough points on offense to win many more games then he won. Some may disagree but yes, he does deserve to be in the hall. Sadly, in today's climate, he will never be considered.
 

AZCrazy

ASFN Lifer
Joined
May 18, 2014
Posts
3,964
Reaction score
2,507
Is there a veteran's committee like there is in baseball, to look back at deserving folks from prior generations that got overlooked?
 

CFLredzoned

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Posts
1,620
Reaction score
1,129
Location
Melbourne, FL
I wish I remembered more about Jim Hart when it was happening. I was just a little kid and becoming a Cardinals fan. I was a big Terry Metcalf fan cause I was playing RB in peewee.
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
Jim Hart has a decent resume' but I think he never won a playoff game and the Cards generally average at best seasons where factors held against him.Plus he wasn`t outspoken or loud just did his job the best he could .If the Cards had ever drafted good enough defensive guys to get a decent defense that would have helped.Other than Larry Wilson,Larry Stallings,Roger Wehrli,Jerry Stovall the Cards defense was mostly average and always lacked a pass rush.Hart couldn`t always bring the Cards back from a deficit after the defense failed again.
 
OP
OP
NJCardFan

NJCardFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Posts
14,974
Reaction score
2,967
Location
Bridgeton, NJ
Jim Hart has a decent resume' but I think he never won a playoff game and the Cards generally average at best seasons where factors held against him.Plus he wasn`t outspoken or loud just did his job the best he could .If the Cards had ever drafted good enough defensive guys to get a decent defense that would have helped.Other than Larry Wilson,Larry Stallings,Roger Wehrli,Jerry Stovall the Cards defense was mostly average and always lacked a pass rush.Hart couldn`t always bring the Cards back from a deficit after the defense failed again.
The lack of a defense is what led to Coryell's departure. Bidwill never wanted to build a winner.
 

NeverSayDieFan

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Feb 13, 2004
Posts
2,864
Reaction score
210
Jim Hart is in MY "Hall of Fame"! ...And judging by the many accounts I've read over the years, a really nice person. In this look-at-me culture we live in, I find the Jim Hart's of this world very refreshing.

Mark in SC :)

....The Cardiac Cards were FUN!!!!!
 

RedRob

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 15, 2003
Posts
1,078
Reaction score
88
Location
Somewhere in TX
I agree he should be in there but I am biased. He was my Dad's roommate & teammate in college.

Excellent, then your dad's a Saluki like me (and my wife).

Jim became SIU's AD when I was a teenager. I had already become a rabid Cards fan (both football and baseball) by that time. Knowing this my mom was able to secure a meeting at a private luncheon whereby my brother and I got to meet Jim. Additionally there was a long time NFL ref who attended.

My thumbnail is actually an old poster, one that I have to this day that's autographed by Jim and the ref (can't recall his name - I'll have to look:)) both were very gracious and spoke to us for several minutes.

Per the comment about not putting decent in the HOF. The poster lacks perspective. To be "decent" as a Cardinal back then, when the league and team were so entirely different, was an accomplishment in and of itself. Had the other QBs listed in the original post played for the Cards it's extremely likely they too would not be in the HOF or posted near the numbers Jim did..The man could sling a football.
 

Cardsfanstl

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Posts
3,239
Reaction score
786
Location
St. Louis
He will not be in the HOF even though he warrants consideration. No playoff wins plus he had 209 tds but 247 INT, His career QBR is 66.60. He played in a different era. If he had decent defense paired with the offense they had in the 70's then these stats would probably be better and Hart would be in the HOF.
 

Cardsfanstl

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Posts
3,239
Reaction score
786
Location
St. Louis
He has better numbers than a lot of QB's already in so state your case as to why he doesn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree there are a few QBs in the HOF who I believe should not be there but are there because of the teams they played on. Aikman is one of them. Would he be in the HOF without Emmit Smith, Michael Irvin, the oline and those Super Bowl wins. His stats compared to Hart are better TD Int ratio and QBR but everything else compares to Hart.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
34,727
Reaction score
30,983
Location
Orange County, CA
He has better numbers than a lot of QB's already in so state your case as to why he doesn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lacks the wins.

He has better numbers because he played for an eternity. That's the only reason he has comparable numbers.

Mediocre to bad in a lot of categories.

Literally the most ridiculous proposition I've seen on this board.
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
Jim Hart was a very good QB for a few years and a average QB for a lot of years.Since you likely never saw him play and several older fans did I think most would agree that he would be a long shot HOF guy who likely will not get in.That said Hart did okay with what he had to work with.One of the better UDFA signings in Cards history.
 

wa52lz

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Posts
2,111
Reaction score
1,232
When he retired he was #3 all time in passing yards and 9 or 10 in TDs. Strong numbers with regards to his contemporaries. There are other QBs with more TDs then INTs in the HOF from his era, Stabler and Nameth, but this guys won SBs. Lack of winning is keeping him out.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
 
OP
OP
NJCardFan

NJCardFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Posts
14,974
Reaction score
2,967
Location
Bridgeton, NJ
Lacks the wins.

He has better numbers because he played for an eternity. That's the only reason he has comparable numbers.

Mediocre to bad in a lot of categories.

Literally the most ridiculous proposition I've seen on this board.
Hart's numbers are better than Bob Griese, who never passed for more than 2,400 yards in a season and he's in. Sonny Jurgenson's numbers are comparable and he's in. Same for Bobby Layne. Your only resistance is that I'm suggesting he get in. If I said the sky were blue, you'd think that was ridiculous.
 
OP
OP
NJCardFan

NJCardFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Posts
14,974
Reaction score
2,967
Location
Bridgeton, NJ
Jim Hart was a very good QB for a few years and a average QB for a lot of years.Since you likely never saw him play and several older fans did I think most would agree that he would be a long shot HOF guy who likely will not get in.That said Hart did okay with what he had to work with.One of the better UDFA signings in Cards history.
You do realize my age is posted, right?
 

TRW

ASFN Addict
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Posts
7,464
Reaction score
6,797
Location
Avondale, AZ
One of my favorite QBs ever. He could sling it for sure. But, Hall of Fame? Not quite in my mind.

He and those Cards teams were so darn fun to watch. Loved that era.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
36,844
Reaction score
26,593
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Please make your case for Vinny Testaverde to make the Hall of Fame.

If you win Ringz; you’re gonna get in.
If you put up unglodly career numbers and one or two MVPs, you’re gonna get in.
If you rack up a bunch of counting stats and the BEST case includes, “His team kept trying to replace him but then would always come back around and start him,” you don’t get in.

The hall of fame isn’t for mediocre teams’ booty calls.
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
33,813
Reaction score
18,750
Location
South Bay
Carson Palmer belongs in the HoF before you even consider Hart, and Palmer isn’t a HoF QB.

He’s loved by old school fans, but he wasn’t good enough to make the team legit.
 
OP
OP
NJCardFan

NJCardFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Posts
14,974
Reaction score
2,967
Location
Bridgeton, NJ
Carson Palmer belongs in the HoF before you even consider Hart, and Palmer isn’t a HoF QB.

He’s loved by old school fans, but he wasn’t good enough to make the team legit.
The team was legit. They just had no defense and were grossly mismanaged. Put Hart in Pittsburgh or Oakland and those teams would have still been successful.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
536,982
Posts
5,262,762
Members
6,276
Latest member
Beagleperson
Top