Nick Bosa vs Quinnen Williams. Your Pros/Cons of drafting 1?

[Solar7]

As stated on another thread - If we worry too much about what the Niners do, we'll neglect doing what we need to do from the standpoint of our own priorities.

Yeah, but in this case, the closest thing available to a sure thing also reasonably aligns with our priorities. Is it a huge need? Nah, but it is a premium position where improvement would improve the entire team for years to come and likely make us elite at the position.

If this were a situation where we had the QBotF on the roster and were worried about the 49ers taking a QB so we took the best one just to ride the pine for us, I'd understand your line of thinking, but taking Bosa fits the the three most important items here:

- Consensus Talent
- Relative Need
- Screwing Our Rival

 

[Ohcrap75]

We just can't afford to draft a DT #1 overall in a 3-4. There's too many reasonable players that can just stand around and anchor.

Our defense is going to be awful if our lineman stand around and anchor. Is this what you think is expected from them? Are you saying no DL is worthy of #1 pick or DL are only valuable in 4-3?

 

[JeffGollin]

Our defense is going to be awful if our lineman stand around and anchor. Is this what you think is expected from them? Are you saying no DL is worthy of #1 pick or DL are only valuable in 4-3?

The right DL is valuable in either scheme.

All I know is (1) we were inconsistant vs. the run playing the 3-4 last year and (2) a disruptive presence inside could wreak havoc for opposing offenses. In terms of "need", I'd rank positions (1) CB, (2) NT, (3) ILB and then (4) an EDGE guy.

But if we were to go the BPA route, I'd be leery of Bosa's injury history and assessment that he's more technician than athlete.

In a perfect world, I'd want my #1 pick to be a freakish athlete before anything else. Next, I'd want him to be an animal in terms of effort and, finally, a student of the game.

If the draft were held today, My top 3 would be : Q Williams, Greedy Williams and then Bosa - but it's early and all that could change

 

[Solar7]

Our defense is going to be awful if our lineman stand around and anchor. Is this what you think is expected from them? Are you saying no DL is worthy of #1 pick or DL are only valuable in 4-3?

Not what I'm saying. Now, there hasn't been a #1 overall DT taken in 25 years...

But, short of Aaron Donald, how many true gamebreakers play at DE or NT in the NFL in the 3-4 that you'd rather have than an elite OLB/DE? In 10 years, only two DTs have been top 10 picks. And neither one made it to another contract with their team.

I'm just not convinced that the position has a lot of true opportunities to shine anymore, and that you can find other useful players there later in the draft, whereas it's a little more difficult with a pass rusher. JJ Watt and Aaron Donald are the only two I'd go gaga for, and their schemes function to reward their talent.

Vance Joseph has overseen rosters with elite outside pass rushing talent, and I want him to continue to exploit that.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Not what I'm saying. Now, there hasn't been a #1 overall DT taken in 25 years...

But, short of Aaron Donald, how many true gamebreakers play at DE or NT in the NFL in the 3-4 that you'd rather have than an elite OLB/DE? In 10 years, only two DTs have been top 10 picks. And neither one made it to another contract with their team.

I'm just not convinced that the position has a lot of true opportunities to shine anymore, and that you can find other useful players there later in the draft, whereas it's a little more difficult with a pass rusher. JJ Watt and Aaron Donald are the only two I'd go gaga for, and their schemes function to reward their talent.

Vance Joseph has overseen rosters with elite outside pass rushing talent, and I want him to continue to exploit that.

The league is forever evolving and I would just take the player going forward instead of basing my decision on what a team did 25 years ago. With top offenses going to a quick passing game that can often neutralize outside pass rush, I believe pressure up the middle will become more and more effective. Funny when you say other than JJ Watt and Aaron Donald... Those are two of the biggest game wreckers in the last 20 years. Really hard to dismiss them.

 

[DVontel]

The right DL is valuable in either scheme.

All I know is (1) we were inconsistant vs. the run playing the 3-4 last year and (2) a disruptive presence inside could wreak havoc for opposing offenses. In terms of "need", I'd rank positions (1) CB, (2) NT, (3) ILB and then (4) an EDGE guy.

But if we were to go the BPA route, I'd be leery of Bosa's injury history and assessment that he's more technician than athlete.

In a perfect world, I'd want my #1 pick to be a freakish athlete before anything else. Next, I'd want him to be an animal in terms of effort and, finally, a student of the game.

If the draft were held today, My top 3 would be : Q Williams, Greedy Williams and then Bosa - but it's early and all that could change

Jadeveon Clowney is that, & while he has been good, he definitely has not lived up to the #1 billing.

“Freakish athletes” are basically projects more than anything, & that can’t be a risk willing to chance.

 

[Solar7]

The league is forever evolving and I would just take the player going forward instead of basing my decision on what a team did 25 years ago. With top offenses going to a quick passing game that can often neutralize outside pass rush, I believe pressure up the middle will become more and more effective. Funny when you say other than JJ Watt and Aaron Donald... Those are two of the biggest game wreckers in the last 20 years. Really hard to dismiss them.

It's not necessarily the specific player or bad decision from 25 years ago, but that NFL teams have obviously not prioritized the position. And to me, that speaks to the position having a relative lack of impact compared to the other elite positions, or at least the scarcity of those impactful positions.

My point in those two players is that they were both taken out of the top ten, though. Now, the NFL is a copycat league. Does everyone try to find that next player? Maybe, maybe not.

But I'm not sold on the argument that passing games are going to neutralize outside pass rush. NFL offensive linemen are increasingly incapable of learning the position on their way in, making the best way to interrupt those passing teams to get to the QB as soon as possible and not give them the time.

 

[Southpaw]

And...we're supposed to consider your anonymous source valid? A common journalistic problem: You feel your source is absolutely golden, but most if not all of us don't know him (or her) from Adam. I'll just have to wait for more info before passing judgment on the 2 dudes. I'll pin a small red flag next to their names and try to find out more before passing judgment.

Okay I will delete the post.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Jadeveon Clowney is that, & while he has been good, he definitely has not lived up to the #1 billing.

“Freakish athletes” are basically projects more than anything, & that can’t be a risk willing to chance.

3 Pro Bowls and 1 All Pro team before the age of 26... What does it take to be worthy of #1? Defensive player of the year 3 times? Tough Crowd!

 

[DVontel]

3 Pro Bowls and 1 All Pro team before the age of 26... What does it take to be worthy of #1? Defensive player of the year 3 times? Tough Crowd!

Pro Bowl barely means anything. Andy Dalton & Matt Stafford have made Pro Bowls.

Compare Clowney to Donald & Mack’s(from that same draft) accolades. That is #1 worthy.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Pro Bowl barely means anything. Andy Dalton & Matt Stafford have made Pro Bowls.

Compare Clowney to Donald & Mack’s(from that same draft) accolades. That is #1 worthy.

So how many #1 picks have ever lived up to your standards? The odds of our pick becoming either of those guys are extremely low

 

[Jetstream Green]

I have one, it would only happen to the Cardinals... this draft class sucks!

 

[Finito]

3 Pro Bowls and 1 All Pro team before the age of 26... What does it take to be worthy of #1? Defensive player of the year 3 times? Tough Crowd!

No he hasn't lived up to the hype you have to remember this kid was on the national radar when he was in high school. He was supposed to be a generational talent and he has been good but not the player people thought he could be.

 

[TheCardFan]

I have one, it would only happen to the Cardinals... this draft class sucks!

There are 3, maybe 4 elite guys at the top of the draft.

After that, picks 15-45 are pretty similar IMO. The best depth is at WR, DL, and TE and the value position is top half of rd 2.

I really like Bosa, Q Williams, and Oliver. I don't know squat about scheme fit.

 

[cardpa]

I would like to see the Cardinals go really hard after Trey Flowers. I believe he's still on a upward trend and will be a force for years to come. In my book he's an impact player. My definition of an impact player is one who makes big plays at crucial times in a game. Those plays affect the outcome of a game. I think Flowers is that type of player.

 

[Harry]

The decision to mandate 3-4 caused me to go Bosa. I actually like Williams better as other edge options are available. Williams could play the nose in a 3-4 but he’d be far more effective in a 4-3.

 

[JeffGollin]

“Freakish athletes” are basically projects more than anything, & that can’t be a risk willing to chance.

All things being equal, I'd rather start out with a few guys who were faster, quicker, bigger, more committed, smarter & more athletic than I would average players.

Doesn't mean grinders can't make a team or that some guys who look the part won't fail. But when filling a roster, I'd rather start out with better athletes and have the odds working for me rather than against me

 

[TheCardFan]

I would like to see the Cardinals go really hard after Trey Flowers. I believe he's still on a upward trend and will be a force for years to come. In my book he's an impact player. My definition of an impact player is one who makes big plays at crucial times in a game. Those plays affect the outcome of a game. I think Flowers is that type of player.

Flowers is solid but we can’t pay the guy 15m/yr. The same reason we can’t pay a #2 CB 12-15m/year with PP21.

The Patriots drafted Flowers in the 4th rd and have paid very little for this production. The Patriots won’t be paying him either...they will just replace his production with another draft pick or low cost veteran.

 

[Ohcrap75]

No he hasn't lived up to the hype you have to remember this kid was on the national radar when he was in high school. He was supposed to be a generational talent and he has been good but not the player people thought he could be.

No, he hasn't lived up to the hype of one of the best DE prospects ever. But I think he has become worthy of a #1 overall pick. Who knows what could've been without microfracture surgery though!

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

You saw New England shake Patrick Mahomes confidence last night by putting constant pressure on him. The current NFL favors the passing game. Get ahead of the curve and have a devasting pass rush (Chandler Jones and Nick Bosa).

 

[slanidrac16]

You saw New England shake Patrick Mahomes confidence last night by putting constant pressure on him. The current NFL favors the passing game. Get ahead of the curve and have a devasting pass rush (Chandler Jones and Nick Bosa).

Sign a CJ Moseley and along with Jones, Bosa and Bynes and suddenly we have a very formidable set of staring linebackers

 

[GatorAZ]

Sign a CJ Moseley and along with Jones, Bosa and Bynes and suddenly we have a very formidable set of staring linebackers

They said on NFLN the Ravens would have ~40 mil in capspace if they trade/release Flacco. That’s what overrated about FA. Really good players in their prime don’t hit the market often.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Sign a CJ Moseley and along with Jones, Bosa and Bynes and suddenly we have a very formidable set of staring linebackers

I’m all in favor of rattling these upstart gunslingers. It’s the new recipe for success in the NFL. Bilicheck shut down Mahomes for a half

 

[Cardinal]

I know mocks are n

I know mocks aren't worth the bandwidth they use up, but most I have seen have him going 8-15.

The combine will rekindle the Ed Oliver hype. He’s going to tear it up.

 

[Finito]

I’m all in favor of rattling these upstart gunslingers. It’s the new recipe for success in the NFL. Bilicheck shut down Mahomes for a half

A great pass Rush isnt a new recipe for sucess it's as old as the NFL itself.